Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Luis7698

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Files uploaded by Luis7698 (talk · contribs)

Photos of Brazilian soccer players. Not "own work". Publication history unknown, creation date unknown. Pinto was born 1921, Quarentinha 1933, Alvim 1920, and Zizinho 1921. {{PD-Brazil-media}} might apply if these photos had been published before 1944... At least for the Quarentinha photo that is flat out impossible. For the other photos, we'd need to know at least when the photos were taken or originally published.

Lupo 14:14, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: All clear copyvios. For the sake of the smooth running of the operations I would ignore Zizinho, who anyway is free per 1 January 2015 ({{PD-Brazil-media}} / 70 years after publication). On the other hand, for all practical intents and purposes, the commercial value of the rights to these images is at very best nominal as we know. The complete photo library of Manchete dos Sports, a major 1950s sports magazine from Rio de Janeiro, published by Mario Filho and Nelson Rodrigues (they are biggos!) was on the market a few years ago: not the slightest interest for a cheap asking price of some cents per picture, not even an offer. And this included the successful World Cup of 1958. The reason for this is, there is a gazillion of this type of material around as Rio in that era had about half a dozen newspapers (A Noite, A Manhã, O Imparcial, Ultima Hora, Globo, J. do Brasil, Diário de Notícias, Diário Carioca, ...) and a number of sports dailies (Esporte Illustrado, Jornal dos Sports, Manchete, ...) out there, and essentially all of them went bust. As a result, the existing media enterprises have pics like that by the ton and buyers, there simply aren't any. Any argument about those pictures is pretty much esoteric. Cheers, OAlexander (talk) 01:26, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the explanations. I don't quite get it, though. First you say they were copyvios, then that the Zizinho image would be PD next year. So you do have evidence for a publication in 1944 for that image, but not for the others? The commercial value of these is not important when it comes to copyright.

As an aside, I have in the meantime indef-blocked the uploader as he kept uploading lots of modern soccer player images that all were copyvios and kept ignoring any warnings. These four were the only ones of his uploads that just might be OK if we can show pre-1944 publication. Lupo 05:53, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lupo: The last four digits of the images seem to indicate the year of publication in which the the uploader has found those images, which seems to be in line with the contents of those images. It would be unreasonable to attempt to track the images to their original sources, but with my expertise in historic Brazilian football (I read publications from that era regularly, (as can be eg. gleaned from EN:Nicolas Ladany, EN:Martim Francisco ...) I would suggest, that the uploader made a typo in the file name of the Zizinho image, which by my judgement (the jersey, etc.) looks rather from Esporte Illustrado (RJ), 1943 or earlier, I thus have marked this image {{PD-Brazil-media}} accordingly. The rest, regretfully can not be remedied, and according to regulations can be dealt with swiftly. I will see, if I can find some replacements for them. Cheers, OAlexander (talk) 07:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, the last four digits are the time of the upload (in local time, not UTC). It's auto-generated by the Mobile/Web upload of MediaWiki. Lupo 08:28, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, if you can date the images by the jerseys, that's fine, but how did you arrive at the conclusion that it must have been published in Esporte Illustrado? Lupo 08:45, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Also, according to [1], the Zizinho image was used in 1950 as an autograph photo. I would think that for the World Cup 1950, they'd have used a more recent picture, not a seven year old one, so I'm not sure about your 1943 dating. He's wearing a CBD jersey; I guess that's the one of the national team? According to en:Thomaz Soares da Silva, he was on the national team from 1942 to 1957, so that would give some date bracket. Lupo 08:53, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Esporte Ilustrado have a very typical style of photography suited to the format of the publication, which indeed consists largely of little text and expressive photographs that in portraits are relatively expressive, almost artful. A bit like Argentina's El Gráfico in its earlier decades (some years ago they had their 80th Jubilee and their first two decades were completely online - what a feast) - but Esporte Ilustrado did not quite live up to that. It was actually revived some years ago, but did not even sell for a ridiculous price of 50 Cents or thereabouts. Anyway, after delving deeper into the issue I can no longer support the idea that the Zizinho portrait is an early 40s one and must support the deletion of all images in question. When I get to it, I will upload another Zizinho from "EI", but surely properly sourced. Cheers, OAlexander (talk) 02:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: . . Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 11:22, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]