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Commons:Deletion requests/Files found with Gonzo fist

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files found with Special:Search/Gonzo fist

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This file was initially tagged by SheridanRoss1560 as Speedy (speedydelete) and the most recent rationale was: <This logo is not in the public domain and is owned by The Anita H Thompson Owl Farm Trust. It may not be used without permission from the Trust.>. DRing due to age, previous DRs, and to allow better investigation of PD claim. Also adding the files this was derived from.

AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 01:16, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Seems that there's a change of ownership, and some increased commercial interest in, the gonzo logo itself. The article doesn't make it clear if the logo has been registered as any form of trademark. Nor (IANAL) would that change the status of posters (which we're assuming to be PD, as above) which pre-date it. Andy Dingley (talk) 03:54, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
78705372 & 90432436 seem to be live Gonzo trademarks held by the owl farm. There are also simpler wordmarks that have lapsed. However these do not refer to the logo here File:Gonzo.svg, but rather a more complex version of it (presumably later) with the cross-shaped word and dagger additions.
In which case, I would keep all of these. They pre-date the trademarks belonging to the owl farm and they are significantly different. Andy Dingley (talk) 04:13, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Trademarked logos are also allowed on Commons and are independent of copyright status. Kingofthedead (talk) 05:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Although we do need the copyright to be clear, and I don't think we could claim that for the later (dagger) version of this, as has been trademarked. It's also unusual (albeit possible) for a trdemark to not be based on something copyrighted. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:17, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I maintain my original analysis of the notice-free publications of the posters and copyright status. In any case, the rationale for deletion provided by SheridanRoss1560 does not contain enough information to assess whether copyright is at stake here, let alone any new information contradicting the publication/public domain analysis. I would be open to hearing them out if there is any conflicting information on the copyright status analysis, but I don't see that yet. I tend to agree with Andy Dingley's assessment on the trademark issues raised. As far as trademark goes, the blade and the word "Gonzo" are incorporated in both 78705372 (registering the image in 2007 for commercial uses on clothing, after a 2005 application) & 90432436 (applying in January 2021 for a registration of the image for commercial uses related to liquor; final registration appears to be pending but I don't know what difference that may make, if any, in the meantime). Even if the fist-and-flower alone (sans dagger) is protected as a trademark, Commons allows trademarked content provided it is otherwise free-license per Commons:Trademarks and other site policies. That said, I would not object at all to adding {{Trademarked}} to any of the images to caution others about the possibility of infringing commercial use. Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 23:06, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We should add {{Trademarked}} to things that we know aren't trademarks? Andy Dingley (talk) 23:09, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Potentially; I don't know. I would note the broad wording of {{Trademarked}}: "This work includes material that may be protected as a trademark in some jurisdictions." That's pretty broad and doesn't concede much, and besides the images would still be acceptable to host on Commons with that label anyway. In general, I don't know how similar an image would have to be for it to be potentially protected by the same trademark, though I know it's somewhat of a case-by-case determination. I also know it has something to do with the intended use; I imagine that if someone started printing File:Gonzo.svg on bottles of liquor to be sold at market, that could be potentially problematic for them even without the word "gonzo" or the element of a dagger.
But I take your point that it's certainly not the same image. We don't want to be skittish when trademark holders making encroaching claims of ownership over images that aren't truly theirs. In this case the images and the trademarked imagery are clearly different, even if they incorporate some of the same elements. It's a judgment call when it would be worth placing a general warning to others about the need to be mindful of similar trademarked images. Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 05:04, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see {{Trademarked}} as being intended for use on products, where a de minimis trademark might be visible, rather than for use on trademarks and their representations themselves. The point is to highlight that there is a recognisable trademark present and although that's acceptable for that image, it's not carte blanche to treat the image (i.e. by cropping) as a source for an image of that trademark which would no longer be de minimis, thus no longer justifiable as freely licensed content to our standard here.
If I were HST's attorney (a chap can dream), then I would have advised him that the image here was no longer a good subject for a trademark, as it had escaped into the PD. Like images which aren't clearly above TOO, you're welcome to trademark these, but they're no longer strongly defensible. I presume he heard similar advice and then developed the dagger form of the logo as a result, so that that could be better protected. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:43, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

here.

Andy Dingley: That makes sense to me. At this point I'm 100% in your corner. Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 00:25, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: per majority of contributors to this discussion. --Ellywa (talk) 19:08, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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