Commons:Deletion requests/Divine Mercy paintings

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Divine Mercy paintings

It's really hard for me to raise this issue, because I believe in Jesus as Son of God, who full of mercy... But legally, both pictures by Kazimirowski (d. 1939) and Hyła (created: 1944) are not in public domain.

One can think, that their authors would like them to be copied and distributed, but what about derivative works?

I think we should wait till 2010 for Image:Divina Misericordia (Eugeniusz Kazimirowski, 1934).jpg and 70 years after Hyła's death for others...

A.J. 17:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is not a copyviol because the image is not covered by any copyright. The images have been painted in Poland by Polish authors and they fall under the Polish law, that allows 50 years of copyright by the date they have produced just if the author has requested so!!

I know Polish law quite well and it grants 70 year protection. I haven't already seen any reason againts that. A.J. 08:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I sent an email to the "Santuario della Divina Misericordia" (Divine Mercy Church} in Rome, responsible for info and diffusion of the devotion to the Divine Mercy, that includes the Divine Mercy images (you can check their website: http://www.divinamisericordia.it/ it's only in italian, sorry), and they replied that the image is not covered by any copyright. I can copy and paste the email I received but it is in italian, too.

So I ask you to withdraw such request of deletion!! thanks--Gipsy 06:09, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree per User:Gipsy. The image should be considered in public domain. Gipsy should inform/post the email conversation first. Deletion can be waited until then.--Anupamsr 11:37, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please copy/paste it here: someone could provide English translation. "Can be reproduced freerly" is not the same thing as "not covered by any copyright". Is Santuario della Divina Misericordia copyright holder? We may put {{CopyrightedFreeUse}} if they confirm that. A.J. 08:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I hereby paste the email received:

"Spett.le Sig.ra ,

l'Immagine non è tutelata da Copyright.

Grazie per aver chiesto,

_________________________________

Santuario della Divina Misericordia

Chiesa Santo Spirito in Sassia
Via dei Penitenzieri 12
00193 - Roma
tel: 06/6879310
fax: 06/6833445
www.divinamisericordia.it

-----Messaggio originale-----

Inviato: martedì 17 aprile 2007 21.40
A: [email protected]
Oggetto: copyright immagine

Gentili Signori,

vorrei sapere, se possibile, se la riproduzione del dipinto

dell'immagine della Divina Misericordia e' coperta da copyright. Poiche'

e' un dipinto effettuato in Polonia e non conoscendo le leggi polacche

in merito, mi rivolgo a voi per saperlo.

Spero che possiate aiutarmi.

Cordiali saluti"
--[[User:Gipsy|Gipsy]] 06:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm still waiting for legal arguments. It's hard to belive in {{PD-because|Santuario della Divina Misericordia says so}} because Polish copyright law says otherwise... A.J. 13:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Instead the images should be delete because A.J. says so, if you know so well the Polish law you could also mention of which law (article number, year and translated quote) you are speaking about, perhaps. But it was already clear to me that you do not want to change your mind. Good luck to the people that try to contribute fairly and honestly, without prejudice and arrogance. Bye --Gipsy 19:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please assume good faith. I'm sure their author would have nothing against keeping them here, but law is law... I started this discussion not to delete this images, but instead: try to find a strong, legal base for keeping them.

Quote from [1]:

Art. 36.
Z zastrzeżeniem wyjątków przewidzianych w ustawie, autorskie prawa majątkowe gasną z upływem lat siedemdziesięciu[2]:

1) od śmierci twórcy, a do utworów współautorskich - od śmierci współtwórcy, który przeżył pozostałych,

So, according to Polish copyright, these images are not in PD. The only way I can see for them is proving, that they are out of Polish jurisdiction. First painting by Kazimirowski was created and published in Vilnus (Lithuania) in 1934. What jurisdiction were there then? De facto Polish, but legal base for that is controversial en:Republic of Central Lithuania. A.J. 20:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed copyright tags anyway, because PD-Art with its 70 years is not valid here... A.J. 21:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete EU copyright term is 70 yrears pma which should be respected --Historiograf 16:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete We only accept permissions given by authors (Kazimirowski and Hyła) not third parties. Samulili 17:10, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How do you manage dead authors, then? ;o) Michelet-密是力 06:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By their heirs of course... They could also pass their rights in last will to someone else. A.J. 08:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm going to contact Sanctuary of Divine Mercy in Kraków-Łagiewniki: they are owners of Hyła's image, they should know legal status of their property, and maybe also original painting by Kazimirowski. A.J. 18:39, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep it for the time being, there's no need to rush. Obviously, [email protected] may be able to say who is legally responsible of the copyright, and the question can then be asked if the licence is OK. Chances are they will be PD before the case is settled, though ... Michelet-密是力 06:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Painting by Hyła - case closed

I contacted sister Elisabeth (Name: Maria Elżbieta Siepak) from Zgromadzenie Sióstr Matki Bożej Miłosierdzia (Sisters of God's Mother of Mercy Convent, http://www.sanktuarium.krakow.pl/polski/r02.html) and got the following information:

Hyła's painting is not in public domain, Hyła himself (d. 1968) passed copyright to the convent by agreement confirmed in notary public office.
Their mission is protecting cult of Divine Mercy: therefore they grant licenses only on verbatim copies and would never allow derivative works.

With great sorrow I'm deleting Hyłas image and it's copies immediately.

I'll try to contact also Sisters of Merciful Jesus (keepers of Kazimirowski image), but I don't expect different ending.

A.J. 14:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Painting by Kazimirowski

I've talked to sister Maria Kalinowska, head of Sisters of Merciful Jesus. She told me I shold ask Archibishop of Vilinus... On their official page image is attributed as "(c) Kuria metropolitarna w Wilnie": http://www.faustyna.eu/obraz_maly_67x119mm.pdf. A.J. 15:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sister Maria pointed out, that father pl:Michał Sopoćko could be copyright holder, beacuse he paid for the painting. A.J. 16:04, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- pl:Archdiocese of Vilnius doe's not replay emails, Warsaw is not willing to help... One may try phone calls, but from my exprerience Catholic Church uses copyright law to protect holy pictures. So I'm going to delete this picture. Don't worry: I'm going to reupload it on January 1st, 2010 :) A.J. 14:51, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Both paintings deleted / A.J. 14:51, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]