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Salvador Dalí

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Restarting old nomination - many objections, most of which were addressed. Raul654 15:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support nice job.Rlevse 16:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object I feel that the article is a bit under-referenced. One potential POV example is "In 1931, Dalí painted his most famous work, The Persistence of Memory." How do we know this is his most famous work? Who says? I mean... it clearly is, but since it is, someone is sure to have said so, right? But in general, most of "Later years in Catalonia" is simply unreferenced. Fieari 18:38, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why should a non-contentious fact such as "In 1931, Dalí painted his most famous work, The Persistence of Memory." be referenced? If there is no debate about it (and I agree that there isn't) then it does not need to be cited. No need to cite common knowledge. Joelito (talk) 18:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's just the way we do things around here. It's important to reassure our readers of the quality of articles, and it helps everyone to resist the temptation to include original research. Some editors work very hard to ensure that every point in their article is fully referenced before they submit it to FAC, and it would be unkind not to hold others to the same standard. Regards, Samsara (talk • contribs) 13:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's the way we do things wrongly here. If I state that the Earth is the third planet from the Sun do I need to cite this? Come on, common knowledge does not need to be cited. Even worse is objecting because of one missing citation. Can you specify any other areas where citations are needed? Joelito (talk) 15:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the time it took you to write that response you could have easily found and added a reference for the statement. Don't be so defensive. Fieari was only offering constructive criticism. Kaldari 22:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have added a reference for the statement and edited it to say it is "one of Dali's most famous works" rather than "the most famous", as this is how it is decribed by the Salvador Dali Mesuem (which is the source I used for the reference). Kaldari 22:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well compare Feari's objection to SG's statement. SG clearly states where he feels the article is unreferenced and thus his objections are actionable. I don't mind the objection but prefer actionable objections unless the article is really far from being a FA. Joelito (talk) 15:06, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support – The article is great as it is, but I would like to see a few more refs where Fieari said. ♠ SG →Talk 12:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Here are a few sentences needing refs:
      • In 1931, Dalí painted his most famous work, The Persistence of Memory.
      • The general interpretation of the work is that the soft watches debunk the assumption that time is rigid or deterministic, and this sense is supported by other images in the work, including the ants and fly devouring the other watches.
        • This can be read as a paraphrase of the referenced material that appears later on on the same topic in the Symbolism section. As this is the case, I have added a citation to it as well. --DanielNuyu
      • The fact that he chose to live in Spain while it was ruled by Franco drew criticism from progressives and many other artists.' As such, probably at least some of the common dismissal of Dalí's later works had more to do with politics than the actual merits of the works themselves.
        • RyanGerbil10 listed this line verbatim as one of his points of concern in his objection (turned support) in my nomination. It was agreed that the diatribe entitled "The Jackboot of Dada" by Vicente Navarro (see refs) is a case in point for this notion. For clarity, I have added a citation at the end of this line to that ref since it seems to keep coming up. --DanielNuyu
      • Breton vehemently fought against the inclusion of Dalí's Sistine Madonna in the International Surrealism Exhibition in New York the following year.
        • An article I found via MLN on Project MUSE called "The Old Age of William Tell (A study of Buñuel's Tristana)", now referenced, contains much material in support of this claim. In case you cannot access MUSE, an excerpt from the article reads, "In 1960, Dalí had abjured those principles and, to mark his re-birth into Catholicism, he filled his new sky with bishops approaching heaven. This religious conversion shocked the Surrealists. Dalí sent his Sistine Madonna (also known as Ear with Madonna) to the International Exhibition of Surrealism organized at the D'Arcy Galleries in New York in December 1960. Infuriated by his inclusion in the Surrealist retrospective, André Breton published one of the many anti-Dalinian leaflets he would publish in his lifetime. On this occasion it was titled "We Don't Ear it that Way." In his leaflet, Breton made a mockery of Dalí's religious conversion and the text contained a brutal attack on Gala, whom the painter had used as a model for the Madonna in spite of the fact that her sexual behavior was a constant source of scandal throughout the European tabloid press..." --DanielNuyu
      • he made bulletist works and was among the first artists to employ holography in an artistic manner.
        • More refs added. The second point has been properly qualified (given information at its ref and here; he was not the first, but among the first). --DanielNuyu
      • In his later years, young artists like Andy Warhol proclaimed Dalí an important influence on pop art.
        • I would say the information in the ref I just added for this point corroborates the view in this line. --DanielNuyu
There are also a couple of quotes attributed to Dali which are unreferenced, but I'm not sure if they'll be troublesome. ♠ SG →Talk 17:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The quotes are taken from Wikiquote. That project should (and has to some extent) cited these famous quotes. I too don't think they are an issue. Please take another look at the article now that I've added this new set of refs. --DanielNuyu 10:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm supporting the article now. However, as Andrew Levine pointed out below, certain quotes will probably need citations, even if they came from Wikiquote. Just a minor detail. ♠ SG →Talk 17:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The quotes have now been cited. --DanielNuyu 01:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Aside from that citation do you see any other areas needing citations? Joelito (talk) 15:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the citation for Dalí saying "Surrealism is me"? Andrew Levine 17:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The quotes, including that one, have now been cited. --DanielNuyu 01:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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