Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 March 15

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March 15

Category:Pages with incorrect dash length in scorelines

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 08:47, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Pages with incorrect dash length in scorelines (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: I will admit I have very litle patience for anything to do with the mass changing of tiny horizontal lines, so let me know if I’m way out of line here, but according to the person who created this category they made up an imaginary bot that would populate it for them and remove things when the issue was fixed. [1] Pretty sure that’s not how any of this works. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:31, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete until a template or module needs to use it. The creating editor does not appear to understand how templates use maintenance categories. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:57, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm neutral about this. It's a good faith creation by a relatively new user, who has in their small tenure here seen categories getting automatically populated and therefore came to the Help Desk to understand the issue better. They have not created an imaginary bot – they presumed an imaginary bot would have populated their category, which is not an uncommon presumption (e.g. Wikipedia:List of monthly maintenance categories given month and support from AnomieBOT). I'm not an expert at MOS, but have seen many editors and administrators using AWB and the like to correct issues like this. Such a category, with a bit of help from any of Anomie's workers, could support cleaning up the project. It doesn't seem a WP:SMALLCAT, but on the other hand could be speedied in some time for being continuously empty. In other words, am okay with any decision here. Thanks, Lourdes 03:06, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete; we don't need a cleanup category for something that's normal off-wiki because it doesn't need to be cleaned up in the first place. The creator's confusion is understandable, and there's no reason whatsoever to complain (so thank you to everyone else for not complaining), but this isn't a particularly useful subject for a cleanup category. Nyttend (talk) 23:19, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:ARU referees

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: relisted at WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 April 13#Category:ARU_referees. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:51, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:ARU referees to Category:Referees affiliated with Rugby Australia
Propose renaming Category:IRFU referees to Category:Referees affiliated with the Irish Rugby Football Union
Propose renaming Category:NZR referees to Category:Referees affiliated with New Zealand Rugby
Propose renaming Category:SARU referees to Category:Referees affiliated with the South African Rugby Union

Nominator's rationale: This is a category which organises referees by the governing body the referee is in. For example ARU stands for Australian Rugby Union. Since abbreviations should be spelled out these categories should be renamed to Australian Rugby Union referee, South African Rugby Union referee etc. However the trouble with that is we already have categories based on nationality, so a referee from Australia is an Australian rugby union referee. The difference between these two distinct categories is only capitalisation. Some referees have refereed in more than one country so will be a South African rugby union referee, South African Rugby Union referee and Australian Rugby Union referee (e.g. Rasta Rasivhenge). I feel the differences in naming are so minor in this case that they would be confusing to the general audience. I propose we use the slightly longer version that says "affiliated" to more clearly illustrate what the category contains. AIRcorn (talk) 19:53, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support Sounds good to me Djln Djln (talk) 19:57, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The Category:SARU referees, as of now, does not list several prominent names such as Vivian Neser and Craig Joubert. My question which may some bearing on the CfD is: Are each of these omissions intended by design – or due to the category not being completely populated? -- Ham105 (talk) 21:39, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is also missing about a half dozen categories RFU referees, SRFU referrs, UAR referees etc. It is a relatively new category so I am guessing it is still being populated. So it is probably the best time to decide how to handle it as there will only be a few articles to update. AIRcorn (talk) 00:02, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What is the difference, in terms of inclusion within the sets, between Category:SARU referees and Category:South African rugby union referees? It would seem the grouping is identical? -- Ham105 (talk) 02:16, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

SARU referees refereed in South Africa under the SARU and South African rugby union referees are referees with South African nationality. They are not always the same thing, especially when referees move around. See Talk:Rasta Rasivhenge for the discussion that led to this CFD. Another example is Steve Walsh (rugby referee). AIRcorn (talk) 02:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's two referees out of a few hundred. It is understood that the wording of the proposed new categories makes the distinction. However, in the case of South Africa (and I suspect for many countries) the set membership is exactly identical. The exceptions are few indeed, which suggests it is better to merge.

Propose merging

Rationale: Avoids substantial duplication. The parent categories could be merged to, say, "Category:Rugby union referees by national affiliation" or "Rugby union referees by governing body affiliation" or similar. Rasivhenge and Walsh can be safely included within two categories. -- Ham105 (talk) 03:27, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am not too bothered by this personally, but know some editors like to categorise people by nationality. There is also Category:Rugby union referees by nationality to consider. @Ham105: do you mind if I ping Shudde and TheMightyPeanut. They were involved in the Rasivhenge discussion and know more about rugby than me. Am surprised they have not commented already. AIRcorn (talk) 10:19, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

By all all means, please do. I have contacted those editors as well. In regards to Category:Rugby union referees by nationality, that was the parent category I was referring to. It could be become Category:Rugby union referees by national affiliation", or perhaps "Rugby union referees by governing body affiliation" or similar. -- Ham105 (talk) 11:56, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I see you left a talk page note so there is no need to ping them. Thanks for that. AIRcorn (talk) 20:32, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @Djln: As the creator of all these categories to be moved, would you please explain whether the referees mentioned in my earlier comment above have been excluded from Category:SARU referees by intention or unintentionally? I'd like to understand the scope of this category. @Aircorn: I think your move proposal has some issues. Some minor ones to start – the "Australian Rugby Union" no longer exists under that name, neither does the New Zealand Rugby Union. -- Ham105 (talk) 17:56, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am fine with the changing to the new official names (New Zealand Rugby and Rugby Australia). I still think Referees affiliated with Rugby Australia is better than Rugby Australia referees, but it does solve the virtually identical category name problem somewhat. AIRcorn (talk) 22:15, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The answer to the question as to the right name is that it should be the present one. The precedent is alumni categories, where the alumni of a merged or rename college are deemed to have attended the successor. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:27, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @Ham: I was quiet happy to just have referees defined by nationality. However the TheMightyPeanut insisted on placing two referees in "Category:Australian rugby union referees" even though they were not actually Australian. There are a number of referees who are employed by one union but have another nationality. I initially established "Category:Referees by rugby union" to try to resolve this issue. Some of these categories may not be fully populated, I may have unintentionally missed some referees out. Djln Djln (talk) 19:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support for merge — It was the overwhelming consensus in this recent discussion re players with dual nationalities that a player's representative country is more important than his actual nationality (which is not necessarily easily verifiable and might be completely non-notable), and I still see no reason why the same principle should not apply to referees. TheMightyPeanut (talk) 06:10, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Darude

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 08:49, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Darude (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Too soon for eponymous category per WP:OCEPON and numerous precedent. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 18:15, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:OCEPON — Preceding unsigned comment added by Woodensuperman (talk • contribs)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Marshmello

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 08:53, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Marshmello (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Too soon for an eponymous category per WP:OCEPON. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 18:10, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:OCEPON — Preceding unsigned comment added by Woodensuperman (talk • contribs)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jenny Parks

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 08:57, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Jenny Parks (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEPON --wooden superman 11:17, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Not needed just to serve as parent to "works by" category. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 18:12, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:55, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:FishCenter Live

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 08:59, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:FishCenter Live (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Only contained the presenters and the show. Inclusion of the presenters fails WP:PERFCAT, so there is now only one mainspace article included, which does not warrant a category of its own. --wooden superman 10:49, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of Welsh devolution

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:22, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:History of Welsh devolution to Category:Welsh devolution
Propose renaming Category:History of Northern Ireland devolution to Category:Northern Ireland devolution

Nominator's rationale: rename, contemporary history doesn't seem to count as history and more reasons as mentioned in this earlier discussion about the Scottish sibling. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:49, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support perreferenced discussion Agathoclea (talk) 10:14, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Do like with Scotland; it would be a bit absurd for us to reach different results for Scotland and the other two, and Scotland's getting a good deal more input, so let's just have this one comply with it. Nyttend (talk) 23:21, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Close to match the Scottish case. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:29, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment What about Northern Ireland? There was not a single instance of devolution. There is a history of multiple efforts. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:12, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wild Arms (series)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename all. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:54, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Wild Arms (series) to Category:Wild Arms
Propose renaming Category:Wild Arms (series) images to Category:Wild Arms images added 23 March
Propose renaming Category:Wild Arms (series) video games to Category:Wild Arms video games added 23 March

Nominator's rationale: No need for disambiguation. Parent article is simply called "Wild Arms". This applies for all its child categories as well. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 01:41, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Category:Wild Arms was the original title, but got moved via CfD/Speedy at a time when the key article was titled Wild Arms (series). Article has since been moved via WP:RM/TR. Given the change of key article name, similar change of category name seems fine. Grutness...wha? 09:56, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have taken the liberty to add the two subcategories to the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:03, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Now United

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 09:06, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Now United (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Little here to justify an eponymous category per WP:OCEPON, WP:SMALLCAT. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 00:26, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.