Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yehoshua Sofer

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 16:12, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yehoshua Sofer

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable subject PepperBeast (talk) 01:36, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka (talk) 04:15, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka (talk) 04:15, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Maybe in the future notability might turn up but it’s not there. Trillfendi (talk) 05:55, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:15, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Upon Googling his name, there are articles written solely about him in ~~Slate~~ Tablet Magazine and the Times of Israel. He is also mentioned in two books. While the current sources on this article are pretty awful, I think he meets GNG, and this article could be fine with some cleanup. Gilded Snail (talk) 21:09, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tablet magazine gives him a passing mention, not significant coverage.Sandals1 (talk) 12:21, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Tablet (magazine) material on him , within a longform article, is certainly WP:SIGCOV.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:54, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The man appears to be notable. Passes WP:GNG Mgbo120 (talk) 20:45, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:14, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Lacks significant converage in third-party sources, and the one great source (The Times of Israel) heavily references his Wikipedia page.--Esprit15d • talk • contribs 23:40, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the interest of accuracy, The Times of Israel article is quite long, and mostly about Sofer's creation of a new form of martial arts with grand, unsupported claims to have been secretly passed down father-to-son form the days of King David. But, here's the thing, it had a real following when that article was published. The Wikipedia material is cited as support for the author's pointing out that over the course of Sofer's life, the way he describes his childhood has changed dramatically as he has constructed and reconstructed his identity. In short, he is a fabulist. But he is a fabulist with INDEPTH press coverage.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:12, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

delete It looks like he created his own martial art and claimed to be a grandmaster, which is not an indication of martial arts notability--or at least there seems to be no evidence to dispute my assessment. Claims of being a descendent of warriors from thousands of years ago reminds me of many of the dubious martial arts claims I've seen from "ancient" Asian arts. His hip-hop career doesn't show notability. Coverage is just passing mentions except for the two local articles, both of which were published under editor-in-chief David Horovitz (making me question their independence from each other). Even if independent, I don't think two local articles shows the GNG is met.Sandals1 (talk) 14:46, 26 January 2019 (UTC) Looks like a duck to me[reply]

I'm unclear as to why the Times of Israel is considered 'local', or why having the same editor-in-chief for two articles with different reporters/authors would make the articles non-independent. (I was under the assumption that editors in chief were not the creators of the content, but I might be missing something?) Gilded Snail (talk) 23:41, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Local because both papers are based in Jerusalem as is Sofer. Editors in chief carry power about what's published and I thought it an odd coincidence, but it could be just that. Claims of ancient ancestors with extraordinary powers always make me suspicious.Sandals1 (talk) 00:21, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah no, that's reasonable. To be clear, I think he's a total con-man and is generally not-legit, but I do think that he's a GNG-passing con-man.Gilded Snail (talk) 03:02, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep WP:HEY I added sourced material about his first career, as rap singer who was an Israeli music sensation in the early 90s. Note that is is an old article and that has ~~a lot~~ several of incoming links, usually an indicaiton of notability.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment What do you mean by "a lot of incoming links"? I found about six links from other Wikipedia articles, including one generic "see also" and one from an article about another rapper of doubtful notability. PepperBeast (talk) 20:05, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

rephrased to "several links" Frankly, I was surprised to see any on a guy who is so, er... unusual. But our gauge is not eccentricity, it is reliable sourcing. And WP:SIGCOV exists.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:57, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Haaretz in 2012 says he was a big influence on the Israeli hip hop scene.[1] - so that would satisfy NARTIST. My BEFORE in Hebrew leads me to think he has SIGCOV for GNG.Icewhiz (talk) 18:40, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sheldybett (talk) 06:34, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.