Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Telescreen

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Nineteen Eighty-Four#Surveillance. Content can be merged from behind redirect if desired. Daniel (talk) 08:42, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Telescreen

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I am having trouble seeing how this meets WP:GNG. In my BEFORE I see that this term appears in numerous plot summaries, and can be easily defined in a single sentence as "the two-way video system used to monitor citizens", but outside them, there is very little discussion of this (also because while the concept is interesting Orwell didn't really use it as any major plot device, it's just part of the world-building/background with a cool name). I see some short mentions that it forms the part of Orwell's panopticon but I am having trouble finding anything that meets SIGCOV and would allow us more than a sentence or two of analysis. As things stand, there is nothing to rescue from our plot summary . OR-ish article (note: tagged as OR since 2010, the only reference present currently is to the book itself), and the term should redirect to the novel (Nineteen Eighty-Four - ideally the Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Major_concepts if anyone feels like adding a section on this there - I volunteer to do so if there is consensus to redirect); it probably deserves a brief mention in articles on panopticon (which does mention it), or mass surveillance (which currently does not), but right now I am not sold this needs a dedicated article. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:28, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:28, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:28, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:28, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep/merge This is not unique to Orwell – it was a commonplace contraction of television screen and appears in early SF as an anticipated short form, before people went further with TV. This technology is continuining to evolve but we should retain the link and concept to help our readers understand the history of the technology and its terminology. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:07, 15 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
IF the article had any independent sources, I wouldn't be averse to seeing the referenced content merged somewhere... sadly, this is not the case. Neither Keep OR nor Merge OR seem like a good solution to me. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:29, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'd rather see this merged to a hypothetical Television in fiction article which could absolutely exist._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 00:10, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Nineteen Eighty-Four. Currently, the topic lacks sources to meet WP:GNG. TTN (talk) 14:01, 20 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ♠PMC♠ (talk) 11:08, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Surveillance (maybe that section?) per TTN. This article is sourced only to the novel itself, and in the unlikely event we were to spin out a whole sub-article with secondary sources, I suspect it would be Surveillance in Nineteen Eighty-Four rather than Telescreen, since the device itself is not the point really. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 13:23, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There are a significant number of third party sources that mention the Telescreen as a reference to today's devices. 1, 2, 3... Do these have bearing on the notability? If so, I can work on adding the citations to the article. FiddleheadLady (talk) 13:54, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@FiddleheadLady the problem is the lack of WP:SIGCOV . The sources you found do allow us to say that the such and such has been linked to telescreen, but they still don't show us the need to have a dedicated telescreen article. As @Roscelese noted, this is more related to the general topic of in this book (or. I'd argue, mass surveillance in fiction, which I'll add to my to-do list), rather than this particular gadget. In other words, the broad topic is likely notable, but the examples used in it, like the telescreen gadget, much less so. We should have big overview articles which mentions small articles, and redirects from there. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:35, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question @Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus. This makes sense! FiddleheadLady (talk) 18:02, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/Redirect to Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Surveillance per all. As someone who sees the deep literary merit of 1984, the only keep !vote seems completely counter productive when it suggests rewriting this as some sort of article about television screens in science fiction. Merging would be such an obvious compromise that would preserve the content and address this non-notable topic within the highly notable literary work. I am sometimes baffled by people who would completely rewrite an article just so it counts as a keep, to the point that they would destroy what value it had to readers in the first place. Shooterwalker (talk) 20:34, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Shooterwalker How did I miss this section? That's a perfect redirect target. Good find! But the problem of merging anything is the lack of references in the discussed article. I oppose merging unreferenced content on principle. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:36, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also opposed to articles that are mainly WP:OR essays from primary sources. But within the context of a notable article, some primary sourced material can enhance the secondary material, as long as there isn't WP:UNDUE weight. Leave the amount to merge to the editorial process. Shooterwalker (talk) 13:25, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Surveillance. FiddleheadLady (talk) 18:02, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.