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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to United Democratic Movement. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yongama Zigebe

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Fails NPOL and NBIO. Currently, the only source cited contains one sentence about the article subject: "Yongama Zigebe filled the secretary general position left vacant by Msomi." I could not find any other sources that provide significant coverage of the article subject. The article subject does not meet any of the secondary criteria in NPOL because he is not an elected government official. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:25, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Politics, and South Africa. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:25, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:56, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to United Democratic Movement. Suitskvarts (talk) 14:12, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:52, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect is fine with me. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:39, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. I'm going to close this as No Consensus. This was primarily a dispute over whether this article should be Kept or Merged, I see some editors advocating for Deletion but I did not find their arguments to be very strong and some of the objections can be addressed by careful editing, some of which occurred during the time this discussion was open. So, the primary issue is whether or not some or all of this content should be Merged with another article(s). That discussion, and what the target article(s) should be, can proceed outside of the AFD arena on the article talk page. That is the proper place for an in depth Merge discussion that isn't time-sensitive like AFDs are. You might even consider copying some of the comments made here to start off that discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:15, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Book of Mormon monetary system

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This fails the general notability guideline, and arguably our guidelines on writing about fiction, since the Nephites almost certainly did not exist yet this article treats the subject with complete credulity; that's probably because almost every single source is clearly not independent, being affiliated with or published by the Church of Latter Day Saints. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 19:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion and Economics. Owen× ☎ 19:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or ok with a (see self reply) Merge to Book of Alma or Nephites. Seems to be an OK amount of scholarship on the topic to merit a mention. I will note that my !vote is based on lack of notability outside of the two suggested parent topics, not WP:INDEPENDENT: "almost every single source is clearly not independent, being affiliated with or published by the Church of Latter Day Saints" is an extremely broad claim. I don't think we can make the claim that religious scholarship is primary to the religious text, "everyone who researches the Book of Genesis is affiliated with the Catholic Church" wouldn't fly even if it was true. A412 (Talk • C) 19:40, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Journal of Book of Mormon Studies is funded by Brigham Young University, which is funded by the LDS Church. Books published by Deseret Book Company: owned by LDS Church. Herald House: owned by the RLDS Church. If some article on Catholic doctrine was sourced solely to Jesuit journals, I'd say your point of comparison would make sense, but this isn't a situation where "they're talking about a Mormon topic and thus Mormon scholarship cannot be independent," it's that almost all the Mormon scholarship is directly connected to the Church. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 20:12, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The LDS and RLDS are different churches. A better comparison would be if an article on Catholic doctrine in the 14th century had writers from both the Catholic Church and the Methodists, or if an article on the Koran was written by organizations based in both the Sunni and Shia sects.Naraht (talk) 20:23, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But both are part of the Latter Day Saints movement, so they both have the same independence issues. They don't counter each other out, they have the same issue. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think the independence argument has been explained very well by User:P-Makoto, so I'll repeat my notability/sigcov argument. Nobody is discussing this when they're not discussing the Book of Alma, the Nephites, or how it integrates with one of the above (how it helps explain the narrative of the former, or the setting of the latter). Also updating to a merge vote, coverage in that vein appears fairly substantial. A412 (Talk • C) 01:01, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment David Fuchs Referring to the Book of Mormon as writing about fiction is *not* going to help with a rational discussion.Naraht (talk) 20:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Naraht: if the book of Mormon isn't historically rational then isn't the world it describes a fictional one? It doesn't describe the real world, it describes a religious fantasy world. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:33, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are some independent sources, I'm not sure that any of them contain significant coverage of the topic at hand though... I would lead towards a merge with Book of Mormon or the pages suggested by A412. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:29, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge a watered down version of this into Book of Alma as suggested by @A412. @David Fuchs misses that MOS:WAF specifically says “exemptions might apply to other special forms of literature in which the fiction/non-fiction categorization is disputed, such as the possibly historical elements of religious scripture” as religious texts are generally sorted with non-fiction in settings such as libraries, etc. That said, WP:INDISCRIMINATE makes me lean toward viewing this article as being overly detailed for the purposes of Wikipedia and that a summary description could be included with context in Book of Alma. DJ Cane (talk) 21:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are no "possibly historical elements" in Mormon scripture... Its not like Jewish, Hindu, or Christian scripture, none of it has been substantiated by historians. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:38, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see you’re pretty set on making your view on that point obvious in this discussion but it is not relevant to whether or not this article should be deleted, merged, or kept. DJ Cane (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Look, fiction and myth are different. Fiction aims to entertain, myth aims to explain religious truths. There are good and bad fiction and good and bad myth, and of course everyone has their own set of preferred religious myth in line with their belief system... yes, even atheists. But nominating myth as fiction, even if pretty much every non-Mormon agrees that the myths related in the book of Mormon are indeed fiction, is rude. Myths that have RS coverage get articles, without reference to the truth or provability of those myths. Jclemens (talk) 22:57, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So you're saying that what applies to a fictional world doesn't apply to a mythical world? I was under the impression that mythical was a type of fictional. What does that mean for something like Krapopolis? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:18, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The only reason that is reasonable to also consider Mormon scriptures as fiction as opposed to only myth is that we can identify elements as so transparently self-serving (D&C 132:51-56, for example) that most reliable sources find it objectively unreasonable to believe that Joseph Smith believed what he wrote: he wrote fiction as myth for personal gain... But that's not how we treat myth here. Jclemens (talk) 07:12, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And what specifically is the difference between treating them as fiction vs as myth? I don't find any difference that applies to this context in either policy or guideline... The sentence "X that have RS coverage get articles" is the exact same no matter whether you put fiction or myth in the X and the whole point is that this mythical figure does not have significant independent coverage. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:58, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you think it makes no difference, why did you bring up the book being a fictional one that is not like Jewish, Hindu, or Christian scripture in the first place? P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 17:23, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't bring it up, I responded to the editor who did. I think you're also misquoting me... Its the world which the book described which I described as a fictional one, not the book. The difference between the Book of Mormon and those scriptures is that those scriptures contain possibly historical elements, the Book of Mormon does not. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:04, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Description and analysis of the topic in multiple secondary sources demonstrates its sufficient notability, and it is a topic sufficiently discrete from suggested merges like Nephites and book of Alma; The Shire is a separate page from Hobbits and Fellowship of the Ring, for example.

Additionally, I would posit that social or institutional affiliation with Latter Day Saint denominations is not itself a failure of independence from, specifically, the topic of the Book of Mormon monetary system. As user A412 points out, "I don't think we can make the claim that religious scholarship is primary to the religious text". There was a conversation about this at WikiProject Christianity where the advice given was that using sources that expressly support the view that the Book of Mormon is a historically accurate account is acceptable—Wikipedia relies on similar sources for its coverage of Catholicism, Hinduism, and many other major world religions. Wikipedia itself does not put in its own voice claims that aren't NPOV, but as the Oxford University Press-published book Understanding the Book of Mormon (pp. 23–26) explains, speculation about a setting's mechanics has a long history in the literary analysis of fiction, and that can be as true for the Book of Mormon, making Nephite existence irrelevant to the analysis in the articles by Takagi and Couch. And what is Takagi's or Couch's financial or legal relationship to, specifically, the Book of Mormon monetary system? If their sources were being cited for something about the history of BYU, then I could understand non-independence. But BYU's participation in Mormonism doesn't make the Journal of Book of Mormon Studies or BYU Studies non-independent of content in the Book of Mormon any more than, to give an example, Baylor University's participation in the Baptist tradition would make it non-independent of content in the Bible. Baylor University Press's Peter: Disciple, Apostle, Martyr is independent of the biblical figure Peter, though Baylor University Press is not independent of Baylor University. In a similar way, I hold that "Gold, Silver, and Grain" is independent of the Book of Mormon monetary system.

Finally, I would point out that there are cited sources from publishers without institutional affiliations. John Christopher Thomas's A Pentecostal Reads the Book of Mormon from CPT Press is not affiliated with the LDS Church. And the commentaries The Book of Mormon for the Least of These and Second Witness are published with publishers that, while specializing in Mormon studies, are independent of religious institutions. To say that By Common Consent Press or Greg Kofford Books lack independence would be like saying that the University of Illinois Press, which also has a specialization in Mormon studies publications, is not independent of Book of Mormon topics. All this is to say that whatever one concludes about the topic's notability, it is not the case that "almost every single source is clearly not independent". Multiple sources have clear independence, as they don't have the attributes which the nominator says contests independence (institutional affiliation with a particular denomination). To close, I think that the article requires some revision—there are some portions that lean undue and could be trimmed, and multiple uses of the past tense that should be replaced with the present tense, befitting narration of literary content and to make it clearer that Wikipedia is describing this simply as content in a book—but I think the page should be kept. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 22:05, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Latter Day Saints-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:26, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per all the other keep !votes above. This topic is “myth”, not “fiction”. LDS sources are inadequate to establish secular, historical accuracy but they’re fine for describing this topic in religious terms and for establishing notability. See our many dozens of articles about people, places and events in the Hebrew Scriptures, for example. —-A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 16:52, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. The article is well-researched and well-written. However, we need sources from outside the financial and ideological control of LDS churches to establish that this topic is of broad, real-world importance. We do not get NPOV or evidence of notability when the sources of SIGCOV are exclusively from people who believe the historicity of this material, who have a vested interest in maintaining its narrative and increasing its reach, and/or who are directly financially involved with the organizations that dictate which material is acceptable within the religion. Apologist researchers are necessarily going to approach issues between scripture vs non-LDS academic consensus (in history/archaeology/anthro etc.) very differently from those looking at the topic from a non-LDS/secular perspective.

For example, the article predictably deemphasizes the substantial anachronism surrounding the existence of Nephite coins (Lehi left Jerusalem before coins were invented, and no Nephite coins--or Nephite anything--have been found in America) and seemingly skips the whole controversy regarding the addition of the word "coins" to Alma 11 chapter summaries by the Church Authority in 1920 and the ad hoc attempt by FAIR to then reconcile mentions of "pieces" of gold and silver in the context of money as actually being references to a system of weights and measures (despite no such metal weights being discovered either).

JoelleJay (talk) 20:28, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Setting aside our disagreement about the topic's notability, I would point out that if there is thinking that the article has problems, Articles for Deletion is not for articles that need cleanup, but rather for articles that do not belong on Wikipedia. If cleanup is what's needed, an article can be fixed. Toward that end, I have gone ahead and revised the page. One of the revisions took the page's existing reference to the coinage/pieces matter in passing and rendered it more explicitly. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 22:47, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (edit conflict) it can be argued that every holy book is fiction and myth. Did Noah really collect two of every animal and put them on a boat while God flooded the earth killing every living thing? I think the sourcing for this article meets our GNG. A Merge to Nephites WP:ATD-M is also reasonable and would preserve the material if others think this article should not exist. Lightburst (talk) 20:43, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Nephites or Book of Alma per JoelleJay. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:06, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Nephites and/or Book of Alma. Both of those articles are quite short, so regardless of notability or historicity it's quite unclear why a separate article is needed for their use of currency. But per JoelleJay this minor element of a work of fiction also does not seem to be notable. Reywas92^Talk 16:49, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: as non-notable WP:FICTION offshoot, as per nomination. बिनोद थारू (talk) 03:17, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or merge and if it is merged, we should only keep sources which are not restricted from disagreeing with the Book of Mormon or their church doctrine. I think there were two or three of those in here. Big Money Threepwood (talk) 03:51, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Hello. As the creator of this article I want to apologize for my portrayal of the Book of Mormon monetary system as fact. Originally when I created the article I thought I had taken a neutral stance, but now I can see that, in fact, I did not. I understand that people have different views on this point and I am grateful that we can discuss this. I appreciate everyone's participation in this discussion. The article has great need for revision. Thank you to P-Makoto for her extensive edits that shifted the language of the article and presented the material as strictly within the Book of Mormon narrative. Heidi Pusey BYU (talk) 20:03, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep because secondary, independent coverage exists. I am extremely hesitant to describe religious scholars as categorically non-independent, even in the context of a very hierarchical religion. As noted above, that is inconsistent with how we treat other religions. WhinyTheYounger ※ Talk 02:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@WhinyTheYounger: What religions are you seeing whose treatment is inconsistent? Its at the minimum how we treat Judaism, Evangelicalism, Catholicism, the Unification Church, and Falun Gong... Those are the other religious areas I have significant experience in on wiki, but perhaps there actually are ones which where we treat non-independent sources as independent. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:48, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we treat religious affiliation alone as indicator that a source is not independent and thus unsuitable to meet WP:N. If that were true, then an article like Vatican Pharmacy would be suspect — except for sources 5 and 6, they all appear to be from explicitly Catholic sources. Obviously, the Pharmacy is real, and not mythical, but what about a relatively obscure Catholic Saint for whom most or all sources are Catholic (like Alban Roe or Albert of Trapani)? I'd not assume those sources are completely non-independent, and I'd be fine treating them as establishing notability. (I also don't think the (non-)historicity of the Book of Mormon is relevant when it comes to determining whether a source is independent, as another commenter noted above.) WhinyTheYounger ※ Talk 22:09, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody has proposed that we treat religious affiliation alone as indicator that a source is not independent unless I missed something. If you would like to challenge the notability of Vatican Pharmacy you can, but I suspect that there are suitable independent sources (notability is after all never limited to the sources in the article). Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:37, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'm relisting this discussion as I see no consensus yet. I'm a little doubtful that, with opinions circling around the LDS church and not the notabiity of the article subject established by reliable sources, a consensus can be arrived at. But still it is worth it to give this discussion a little more time. I'm aware that it's frowned upon to use the term "LDS church" but I don't have the time right now to track down the new established nomenclature.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:52, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz: Its Mormon Church which is now frowned upon... LDS Church (with a big C) is the new established nomenclature. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:36, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

By way of aside (and noting that this is solely for clarification and doesn't strictly pertain to the deletion discussion), my understanding is that "LDS Church" is the consensus of Wikipedia's Manual of Style. I don't know if I'd quite call it "new," as it has been around as a phrase for years, since the 1950s at least. Wikipedia's Manual of Style does indeed discourage "Mormon Church" as an "informal appellation" and has done so since 2011.

As far as "frowned upon" goes, the denomination itself requests the use of its full name in first mentions and "the Church of Jesus Christ" in subsequent mentions and apparently dissuades the use of "LDS" and LDS Church". That is not, however, something Wikipedia's own Manual of Style commits to for its main article pages. As for what terminology an individual user wishes to use on discussion pages, I suppose that's up to them. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 19:12, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes by "new" I was thinking we were talking post 2011 on wiki. Thanks for the links to the official Church style guide. I doubt Church of Jesus Christ will ever get consensus for use, its so ambiguous as to be nearly useless for encyclopedic purposes. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:48, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merely to clear up an inadvertent misunderstanding, I will clarify that I did not share multiple links to the official Church style guide (there would be no need to link to it more than once). I shared only one link to the Latter-day Saints' own style guide, to source its disinclination for "LDS Church". The other links were to a book published in 1953 with the phrase "L. D. S. Church" in the title (as a primary source to demonstrate the longterm use of "LDS Church"), to a CNN news article about the denomination's 2018 announcement requesting that others refrain from the word "Mormon" (as a secondary source about that request, since that more recent happening was potentially what Liz referred to as new nomenclature), and to MOS:LDS (twice; once for the current page, once for a version from 2011). In any case, the Manual of Style's current instruction for shortened reference is "LDS Church", and that has been a consensus for some time. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 21:17, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I appreciate the clarification. I just remember that this was a big deal in Categories about two years ago when an editor set about renaming a large number of categories because the term that was being used was seen as insulting. Maybe it isn't such a sensitive issue now. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's entirely possible that Latter-day Saints themselves still consider it a sensitive issue, whatever the presently documented apparent consensus. The Manual of Style consensus has, from what I understand, held, but not uncontested (permalink). Consensus can change, and they can stay the same; what this consensus' future is, I wouldn't claim to know. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 09:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Officially, the Church does find it insulting (A victory for Satan), in practice even among members... the issue is that the (as of 2024) preferred use in Media by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which is to use Church of Jesus Christ as an abbreviation after the first usage more or less gets a *NOPE* from the media starting with the main non LDS controlled Newspaper in Utah, the Salt Lake Tribune. See Mormon (word) for recent history.Naraht (talk) 11:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Respecting the faith and its followers is important, but I think we need to keep in mind that the next President after Russel can just as easily rehabilitate "Mormon" as Russel banished it... Its not settled Church doctrine. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 12:00, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I personally make no attempt to predict what may or may not happen in the WP:FUTURE and focus on, in the present, being respectful of others in my personal use of language while adhering to Wikipedia policies on article pages. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 16:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Might agree to selective Merge as a very last resort (ATD). There is a serious notability issue of the article subject. The article is not clear that it is a work of fiction. The article creator apologized for making it appear the article was fact. The article does not approach the subject from a clear perspective which makes it appear to be non-fiction when in fact it is a tale, or by definition: "a story, especially one that might be invented or difficult to believe". Why is this important? Not everyone that reads the article will read this talk page. It doesn't matter if unintentional or willful there is currently subterfuge. The article uses the terms "narrative of the Book of Mormon" or "Book of Mormon narrative". These words are indicative of an "LDS/secular perspective" that are not "independent of the subject". Since there are no clear rules on works of fiction we must use other tests such as the GNG guidelines. This article fails to provide reliable sources that are not in some way connected to the subject. This means there is certainly no chance of the article being written from a neutral point of view. See: Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view. -- Otr500 (talk) 05:34, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The references includes those that are in no way controlled by either the LDS or CoC (formerly RLDS). Wikipedia treats Scripture as being different from Fiction. I'm certainly not going to support deletion of the article on Noah's ark if every reference is to a Jew, Christian or Muslim. This isn't Harry Potter and "The gold ones are Galleons. Seventeen silver Sickles to a Galleon and twenty-nine Knuts to a Sickle, it's easy enough.".Naraht (talk) 15:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Nephites or Book of Alma, per all of the above reasons. Slatersteven (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The article has been extensively edited to fix fiction versus non-fiction issues, and no longer addresses the topic in a manner that lacks neutrality. Examples of such language include "within the narrative," "within the Book of Mormon," "narrative describes its setting," "people in the narrative." I do not see anything in these examples that posit a non-neutral stance. As I see it, revisions have made it so the article presents the monetary system as existing within the Book of Mormon narrative. Additionally, most of the sources are independent from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The following sources are separate and independent from LDS publication: A Pentecostal Reads the Book of Mormon (CPT Press, which is a company that primarily publishes Pentecostal works); What Hath God Wrought and Annotated Book of Mormon (Oxford University Press, which dedicates itself to publishing scholarly works); and Early Nineteenth-century America and the Book of Mormon (Signature Books, which focuses on LDS history that is not published by the church itself--see "About Signature".). Heidi Pusey BYU (talk) 19:55, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Heidi Pusey BYU: are you aware of WP:COI and WP:PAID? Because you appear to have voted in an AfD in which you have a massive conflict of interest as a paid editor of the LDS Church despite that being prohibited... e.g. "you should not act as a reviewer of affected article(s) at AfC, new pages patrol or elsewhere;". Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Heidi Pusey has a paid conflict of interest for BYU, her employer. This is not a page about BYU. This is a page about an aspect of the setting in the Book of Mormon. Do employees of the U. S. federal government's Postal Service have a conflict of interest for articles involving aspects of literature written by the American founders? They do not. Nor does Heidi Pusey BYU have a conflict of interest for the Book of Mormon monetary system.

Even if one supposes that Heidi Pusey BYU does have a COI for this topic, what she has done is cast a vote in an Articles for Deletion discussion. She has not reviewed or closed the discussion. She has not acted as a reviewer at Articles for Creation (AfC). She has not acted as a reviewer for the new pages patrol. From what I am seeing in Wikipedia policy, Heidi Pusey BYU's vote here would not be prohibited. In any case, she has disclosed her COI for her employer BYU, and this is not a page about a BYU topic.

Book of Mormon monetary system is not the only page Heidi Pusey BYU contributes to that you have gone out of your way to comment on. Now you are escalating to COI aspersions. It is difficult for this user to not be reminded of another occasion on which you began complaining about [a user] in multiple places and it is beginning to seem personal. This pattern of behavior is becoming alarming, and I invite you to reconsider it and let the AfD vote proceed on its own. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 01:49, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BYU is a non-independent arm of the LDS Church... This is an LDS topic. She is currently acting as a reviewer in an AfD. Please don't make this personal, the COI is a fact not an aspersion. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 05:21, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems you are operating on a very liberal reading of WP:COI when WP:COIE further discusses the subject. COI is more of a situation when a paid editor is editing about a company or person that could be directly impacted by coverage in Wikipedia. An example of this would be if Elon Musk paid employees to edit pages about himself and his companies. Student employees of the BYU library adding coverage about Latter-day Saint subjects does not meet that criteria any more than an editor in such a role at Notre Dame editing articles about Catholicism or one at the University of Texas editing articles about state government would - a declaration of such being a COI would be rediculous. Per COIE this seems more like a Wikipedian in Residence position and their position as such is made blatantly obvious by appropriate disclaimer and by their username.

Furthermore, your zeal in confronting opinions opposing your own in this discussion is both non-constructive and alarming, and I agree with the discussion provided by @P-Makoto that your cross-discussion comments targeting specific editors is concerning and possibly worth an outside review on its own. DJ Cane (talk) 15:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:15, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tetraapeirogonal tiling

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

The subject is not notable. As with the now deleted pentaapeirogonal tiling, this tiling is not mentioned of this tiling in the cited sources. Searching for the name yields next to nothing, although it may go by another name in reliable sources. As it stands, the article appears to be entirely original research. AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 23:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mathematics-related deletion discussions. DanielRigal (talk) 00:59, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Yet another polytope article failing WP:NEO and being pure WP:OR and trivial statements. I think at this point, you can use WP:PROD and any similar articles on hyperbolic semiregular tilings. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 01:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I agree that the same reasons as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pentaapeirogonal tiling apply. Adumbrativus (talk) 02:33, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Triapeirogonal tiling and before. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:20, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No doubt this and the other pages mentioned above are less harmful than other types of material we have floating around, but the fact remains that Wikipedia is not a fandom wiki for polytopes and tilings. (If someone wants to start that wiki, hey, more power to you, and I mean that sincerely; it's just not what Wikipedia is for.) XOR'easter (talk) 21:08, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: the citations were copied verbatim from other hyperbolic plane tiling articles. I doubt this tiling is even mentioned there. Regardless, this isn't remotely notable. Owen× ☎ 00:11, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Armenia women's international footballers. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:16, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paytsar Asatryan

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Redirect to List of Armenia women's international footballers as the subject fails WP:GNG. All I found in my searches were passing mentions (2015, 2016, 2017, 2020, 2021, 2022, etc.) JTtheOG (talk) 23:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to List of Armenia women's international footballers per nom. Fails GNG and NBIO. Sources in the article and found in BEFORE are database records and name mentions, nothing meeting WP:IS WP:RS with WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 06:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 16:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 20:57, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to Hayastan Jan. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:18, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hayastan Jan (TV series)

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Article was originally created from copyvios in 2017 and has remained stubbish since. Relies on one source with no clear notability for subject and article as-is fails WP:GNG. There's also no other language-wiki pages for this show. Cheers, Dan the Animator 23:13, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Fails GNG. Nothing found in article or BEFORE showing subject has WP:SIGCOV addressing it directly and indepth from WP:IS WP:RS. BEFORE found listings and promo. No objection if a consensus to Redirect to Hayastan Jan develops, article would need much better sourcing for a merge. // Timothy :: talk 07:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm also open to creating a redirect to Hayastan Jan as an AtD. Cheers, Dan the Animator 18:34, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure)‎ Dan the Animator 18:28, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Military history of the Republic of Artsakh

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Stubbish article that's existed for over a decade with no other language wiki versions and has little chance of expansion. The article's content currently consists of duplicated content from its linked articles and doesn't have any original content from what I can tell. I'm not familiar with "Military history" articles but to me, I can't see the utility of this article. All of its current content is already covered in the main Republic of Artsakh article I think as well as its subarticles. Much of the history of Artsakh deals with "military history" as well so I'm not exactly sure what differentiates this from the main History of Artsakh article. Would like to others' thoughts on this though. Cheers, Dan the Animator 22:59, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Article needs improvement, but it fits into SUMMARYSTYLE well, I don't think stubbish really describes the article. This would fit as the parent article for the military history articles summarized and hatted in the article. Article lacks sources, but the needed refs are present in the child articles to show this meets GNG and fits into a reasonable SUMMARYSTYLE structure. I can see how this dups some content from the main Republic of Artsakh article, but this I think is a reason for improvement, not deletion. // Timothy :: talk 07:06, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I think this could/should be developed, but it requires a proficiency in Armenian that I do not have, so I cannot really help there. With regards to the difference with the main article, well, I believe this one could deal with a lot of minutiae that are unsuitable for History of Artsakh (comments on military equipment, individual battles, etc.). It will need a lot of babysitting, though, as PoV wars are bound to happen. Ostalgia (talk) 08:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment thanks y'all for the replies! I'll withdraw this nom now given the reasoning above and apologies for starting it in the first place! Cheers, Dan the Animator 18:25, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Draftify‎. This means that substantial work is necessary for this article to survive in main space so this should not be construed as permission to move it back in the near future or we will be back for AFD 2 for this article. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:19, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Guardian Angel (Malayalam Film)

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No evidence of notability. Apart from the News18 reference, none of the sources provided appear to be reliable. A check before nomination didn't turn up anything else either. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 20:26, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello,

I noticed that the article for "Guardian Angel (Malayalam Film)" has been nominated for deletion. I believe this article should be kept and here are my reasons:

1. **Upcoming Film**: "Guardian Angel" is an upcoming Malayalam film. As it is yet to be released, references and sources about the film might be limited at this point. However, all available sources have been properly cited in the article.

2. **New Talents**: The film introduces new talents to the industry, which is noteworthy. It provides a platform for new actors and crew members, contributing to the diversity and growth of Malayalam cinema.

3. **Reliable Sources**: Despite being an upcoming film with new actors, the article is backed by all available reliable sources, including news articles and official announcements. These sources provide verifiable information about the film's production, cast, and release. I have recently added more sources to further strengthen the article's credibility. Some of these sources are in Malayalam, reflecting the film's cultural and linguistic context.

4. **Content**: The article provides comprehensive information about the film, including details about the plot, cast, production, and promotional events. This information is valuable to readers interested in Malayalam cinema.

I understand the concerns raised in the nomination, and I am committed to addressing them. I have already made some edits to improve the article and will continue to do so. I believe that with further improvements, this article can meet Wikipedia's standards for inclusion.

Thank you for considering my viewpoint.

Best,

Littleframes Littleframes (talk) 05:38, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NFF (no indication of pre production stage); almost no reliable source found (at least in English). Toadette ^{(Merry Christmas, and a happy new year)} 07:06, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello,

I have updated the article for "Guardian Angel (Malayalam Film)" with additional citations and references. These new sources provide more information about the film and its production stage. Some of these references are in Malayalam, reflecting the film's cultural and linguistic context. I believe these updates address the concerns raised about the article's notability and the availability of reliable sources. I hope this helps in reaching a consensus.

Best,

Littleframes Littleframes (talk) 12:02, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: While I appreciate the effort that Littleframes has put into adding additional sources, I have to reaffirm that my nomination statement still applies. Aside from the News18 sources, no others appear to be reliable; they especially fail many of the points listed at the guideline on news sources. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 04:38, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Delete: Per ToadetteEdit and the criteria of WP:NFF. @ Littleframes, it is possibly too soon. New actors would be covered in Wikipedia:NACTOR. An alternate to deletion would be to place as a draft. -- Otr500 (talk) 15:41, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment TechnoSquirrel69, would you be okay with draftifying this article until the film is released? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:51, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz: No objections! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 03:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Schminnte^{[talk to me]} 04:14, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Database of Recorded American Music

AfDs for this article:

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Has twice been to AfD as N/C in 2016 and 2017, but given the significant changes in notability since then, it's time to revisit it. I am unable to find anywhere near the depth of sourcing required for N:ORG which appears to be the best barometer for this database. Star Mississippi 23:47, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Has many independent reviews in journals, see [1] [2] [3] Mach61 (talk) 02:24, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:41, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the nom doesn't make sense, notability does not degrade over time. microbiologyMarcus ^{(petri dish·growths)} 16:51, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I believe he was referring to modifications of WP:NORG Mach61 (talk) 18:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Added some sources. A simple Google search of "Database of Recorded American Music" brings up oodles of university sites that provide access to this database. There's no doubt this is notable. The link I added from The Recording Industry Association of America® (RIAA) has a pretty impressive graph of 1973-2022 sales. — Maile (talk) 01:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 03:16, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Habeck

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Tagged for notability since 2010. Fails the general and actor-specific notability policies. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:40, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep; and rather expand with the German Wikipedia page, whose filmo as a start, for example, allows to verify he does meet WP:NACTOR for his multiple significant roles in notable films/series.I am not saying his notability comes from having other WP pages but from some of his numerous roles, some being significant. Which roles? for example, in international productions, Feppo in Lexx and Berengar in the Name of the Rose. But also lead roles in Robert Sigl's School's Out, and Der Templer, to name just a few. Coverage exists (or here for example. Also notable as voice actor. FWIW, willing to add those sources and expand the page when I have more time.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 07:45, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Update. I started improving the page. See for yourself.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 22:26, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
....it’s in the page but he received a Grimme-Preis......-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 17:24, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Notability has been established via the improvements Mushy Yank has made. Jfire (talk) 00:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, is now acceptable. Geschichte (talk) 19:27, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 14:00, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cdrdao

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~~Zero independent reliable sources covering this software. Not notable.~~ Changed my opinion after the major work done by StreetcarEnjoyer (thank you!), now I don't think it should be deleted. I believe I have the right to withdraw the nomination since both people here are leaning towards keeping. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 14:49, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep or merge and redirect into Optical disc recording modes#CD Disc-At-Once. Significant coverage in multiple books from reputable publishers (example 1, 2, 3), but very little in the trades or news sites. DigitalIceAge (talk) 20:11, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Comment - If you give me a day or two I could try and clean this article up. Might not save it, but I'll try and help. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 01:25, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did what I could. Hope this helps. It was mentioned in enough books and articles that makes me think it's notable. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 23:45, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was draftify‎. Daniel (talk) 20:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lewis Nolan (footballer)

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Young footballer made a brief debut in a cup game but is yet to attract any significant coverage. He was covered in a local paper and on his club website but it's not enough. Currently TOOSOON so should likely be draftified or deleted. MarchOfTheGreyhounds 21:35, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify – WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 16:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree Draftify - not currently notable by Wikipedia standards (was one of several young players given a first team debut in EFL Trophy group games). Will wait to see if he makes the grade in future. Paul W (talk) 18:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment; It appears consensus has been reached regarding this being a TOOSOON situation. `Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 20:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Daniel (talk) 20:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ses'Top La

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Fails WP:NTV and WP:GNG DonaldD23 talk to me 20:51, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Won a SAFTA in 2013, and two more in 2015, received 5 nominations in 2018, and received nominations in 2023. Made the news here, and here, passing mentions here and here following the death of Busisiwe Lurayi, it also starred Warren Masemola. Looking at WP:NTV, it aired on SABC 1 with its omnibus on SABC 3 and it is now on Prime Video. dxneo (talk) 21:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per dxneo. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 23:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, satisfactory article and sources - and unsubstantiated nomination. Geschichte (talk) 13:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I was just going to delete this article as a CSD G5. But now I see editors are advocating Keep, I'm unsure about this deletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:13, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: I would say the current version is written by Significa liberdade and not by the banned editor, i.e. not a G5 candidate any longer. Geschichte (talk) 17:08, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: TV sitcom received multiple nominations with adequate sourcing. HarukaAmaranth ^春 _香 14:38, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: per dxneo, notable subject despite being a product of CSD G5. Qaqaamba (talk) 22:04, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of curlers#France. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:58, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joel Indergand

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Not meeting WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:NCURL.--Анатолий Росдашин (talk) 17:23, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 December 15. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:50, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - Non-notable athlete with a lack of WP:SIGCOV. I was unable to find any coverage at all on Google or Newspapers.com. JTtheOG (talk) 05:58, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of curlers#France. Suitskvarts (talk) 14:48, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to List of curlers#France. Go4thProsper (talk) 16:19, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Daniel (talk) 20:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Salem el-Masri

AfDs for this article:

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Does not meet notability guidelines

The article has only one valid source in terms of WP:SIGCOV (a book, the other source is primary evidence at a US senate hearing). I can find no hits on google that aren't wiki-mirrors, nothing on google scholar. --Boynamedsue (talk) 19:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I don't the subject passes WP:GNG. Searching for his name in English returns nothing while searching for his name in Arabic only returns hits on the Syrian actor Samer al-Masry. Sgubaldo (talk) 01:48, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is almost certainly not even his name. It follows the pattern for takfiri terrorist noms-de-guerre, [name]-el-[demonym], in this case "Salem the Egyptian".Boynamedsue (talk) 21:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Daniel (talk) 20:44, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Elizabeth Francis

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In this article, simply being the nth oldest person alive is not enough for it to be notable. Unless she becomes the oldest person alive, I don't see this article being notable. Interstellarity (talk) 19:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Wikipedia's notability guidelines for people list criteria that I think rancis demonstrates well.

Basic criteria:

1. In-depth coverage over multiple sources - Francis has news articles from multiple RS such as ABC and WaPo covering her life specifically in multiple articles over the course of multiple of her birthdays (i.e. she isn't some fad that people celebrated when she turned 110 and then ignored her forever).

2. Primary sources - Article still maintains RS without primary sources or primary documents.

Other:

She also avoids the invalid criteria listed, such as the relationship thing (she is the subject, does not share a relationship to one), and does not rely on the web rankings for significance. Her achievement of longevity alone (as supported by the GRG) is her notability. While the "nth oldest person alive" is her claim to fame in the article, she exhibits more than enough RS for an achievement for notability imo. EytanMelech (talk) 19:44, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Interstellarity, what notability criteria, if any, are you basing your nomination on? As far as I am aware, Wikipedia measures notability in terms of obtaining coverage, not in terms of obtaining records. And here, we have coverage in spades, from The Washington Post all the way to The Jerusalem Post. Examples: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Usernameunique: I just read your comments on this page and the other page. I should've done a quick Google search to see if there are plenty of reliable sources that demonstrate that these two people are notable. I just figured that the reason for notability was only because of her age and nothing else. From now on, before I nominate oldest people pages, I will be more careful in doing so. I own my mistakes and it was totally my fault for doing so. Thank you for your understanding. Interstellarity (talk) 22:28, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Interstellarity—appreciate the sentiment. --Usernameunique (talk) 00:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Regardless of whether we believe someone should be notable based on their longevity, Francis has received significant coverage in enough RSes to establish notability, as discussed above. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 23:54, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Being 6th of something is not notable. Does Wikipedia has articles about the 6th of anything else? Athel cb (talk) 10:11, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, plenty. We have an article about John Quincy Adams. Thincat (talk) 13:11, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not comparable. Adams is not there because he was No. 6 but because he was a notable s@tatesman. Athel cb (talk) 10:05, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and Francis isn't there due to being "nth", but for being a notable supercentenarian. EytanMelech (talk) 12:38, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Complies with general notability.--Ipigott (talk) 12:15, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep this has plenty socures and info to be notable the old "being old doesn't mean someone is notable" is a inherently biased and subjective argument that was exploited to delete almost every page of this topic hopefully this isnt the case here — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wwew345t (talk • contribs) 01:37, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets general notability guidelines of significant coverage in reliable sources. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:07, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep per my comments on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pearl Berg and per User:EytanMelech N1TH Music (talk) 14:41, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the sources showing notability. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 15:53, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Daniel (talk) 20:44, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pearl Berg

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In this article, simply being the nth oldest person alive is not enough for it to be notable. Unless she becomes the oldest person alive, I don't see this article being notable. Interstellarity (talk) 19:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Meets WP:GNG with significant coverage in several reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaireeodell (talk • contribs) 20:46, 29 December 2023 (UTC) -- Signing because I forget to do that a lot. Jaireeodell (talk) 21:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Again, Interstellarity, this nomination (like that for Elizabeth Francis) has been made without any reference to the relevant notability criteria. Were this Guinness World Records, "simply being the nth oldest person alive" might be insufficient to be listed. It's not. Here, the question is whether sources exist. They do. Examples: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Will respond on other page. Interstellarity (talk) 22:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep: Meets notability guidelines, as discussed above. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 23:56, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Even less notable than Elizabeth Francis. I seem to detect a note of America-centrism here: why not nos. 7 and 8? Do they not count because they aren't American? Athel cb (talk) 10:18, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Correction. I see that No. 7 does have an article, so it's just No. 8, Okagi Hayashi, that is missing. Athel cb (talk) 10:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I actually attempted to create articles for Hayashi as well, but unlike Francis and Berg, Hayashi does not seem to possess in-depth coverage beyond the organizaztions that certified her, as well as unreliable listicle articles that data dump stats from Wikipedia. EytanMelech (talk) 23:03, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets general notability guidelines of significant coverage in reliable sources. --Grnrchst (talk) 17:08, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep Nominator appears to have withdrawn looking at their comment on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elizabeth Francis I was otherwise going to say redirect and create a mini biography for now, I'm still skeptical on the sourcing and length but time should fix that. N1TH Music (talk) 14:38, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to Léger (company). Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Insights West

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Unreferenced article, subject is not notable. Broc (talk) 17:49, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – fails WP:NCORP; only sources found are this, a few more on Leger's acquisition, mentions in news articles. Nothing else that are in depth and significant. Toadette ^{(Merry Christmas, and a happy new year)} 18:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Léger (company) as WP:ATD. Jumpytoo Talk 22:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Valid point, I think it could be a good idea. The subject still remains not notable IMO. -- Broc (talk) 22:45, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per other users. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 20:34, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge‎ to F3 Derby. While there's a case made for it being an unlikely search, a redirect would be needed for attribution purposes Star Mississippi 15:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Central Coast Mariners FC 2–8 Newcastle Jets FC

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Fails WP:NOTNEWS and WP:LASTING. No aftermath out of the ordinary. More than enough to mention it on a record list, as well as in the F3 Derby. Geschichte (talk) 15:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to F3 Derby, where it can probably have its own section. Giant Snowman 19:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to F3 Derby. Swan505 (talk) 03:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete oppose redirect as unlikely search term. Fails WP:SPORTSEVENT. LibStar (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree with WP:SPORTSEVENT about not needing redirect. Add to record list is enough. Spinifex&Sand (talk) 00:33, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to F3 Derby. While I agree with the redirect not being a likely search term, if the content is merged, the history needs to be preserved for attribution purposes. I think there's enough content to merge here to make this the best option. Daniel (talk) 12:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect/Merge. While I agree much of the game is not notable, the record of being the "highest scoring-match in A-league history" is. I also see it passing notability (events) in every category and think it passes to a degree via WP:SPORTS at least to the level of the record being notable. UnexpectedSmoreInquisition aka USI (talk) 14:16, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 14:50, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Loved One (album)

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Album produced by an artist deleted as not notable. Two other albums can be considered together with this one: All in the Silence and Kentoverse Imaginatorium (talk) 14:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Further background from proposer: The artist's page was recently deleted - see deletion discussion. As in the artist's page, this album has obvious promotional style, and almost all content has been added by the same editors. For example, the most recent addition is a "prize" on "Song of the year", discussed here: forum, which strongly suggests this is merely a paid-for award, but it is actually only listed as "Category Finalists", not prizewinner. Imaginatorium (talk) 14:37, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And pinging editors contributing to the artist's deletion discussion: @Michitaro, Nuraa.sinora, Loriendrew, Kaori Muraji, Tal Essen, and Eduardo Augusto:. Imaginatorium (talk) 06:33, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment To add other articles, you need to tag them with an AFD tag too. Geschichte (talk) 15:40, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTADVERT. The article is full of blatant exaggerations. It has not won the International Songwriting Competition (honorable mention) nor the Song of the Year award (finalist). Only linked sources are paid sources or primary sources. I couldn't find other sources to show the notability of the album. --Broc (talk) 17:37, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. It's clear, here and at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kento Masuda and Japanese AFD ja:Wikipedia:削除依頼/増田顕人_20220315, that all claims of importance have not stood up to scrutiny and searches find no independent reliable sources for anything related. Adumbrativus (talk) 10:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – non–notable album (does not meet WP:NALBUM) with highly dubious or blatant false claims, of an artist whose article was deleted via AFD.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 14:46, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for the exact same reasons as stated at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kentoverse. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 15:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Not notable album produced by not notable artist. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 22:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Does not meet the standards of WP:NALBUM, especially now that the artist has been deemed non-notable. Michitaro (talk) 04:39, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep‎. Procedural close. Do not open a new AFD the day after the previous AFD closed. This is very questionable behavior from the nominator. When I said that a return trip to AFD was possible, I meant in a few weeks or months, not in a few hours. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cavalier Rural Electric Cooperative

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I could not find any significant coverage in reliable secondary sources for this topic, let alone for the more stringent WP:CORPDEPTH.

The single reference present in the article does not contain "Cavalier Rural Electric Cooperative".

Previous discussion was infested by an alt account who went off on a tangent on how it is not fair for him to get new user mentoring. This is why the close suggested no prejudice towards renominating at AfD. बिनोद थारू (talk) 14:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - First of all, this looks to me like somebody didn't like the outcome and is running this within hours of the first close. The mentoring issue was irrelevant to this. It was a side issue that one editor had been assigned to "mentor" a specific editor without the mentored editor asking for mentoring, or even knowing about it ahead of time. What alt account and alt/sock puppet thing mentioned above?

Please see North Dakota's Electric Distribution Cooperatives and click on this particular coop. I also linked Rural Electrification Act, which is the detailed legislation that created these coops during the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration. I repeat here original comments about electric co-ops, so readers know what they are: Re Category:Electric cooperatives of the United States. In the United States, these electric coops are the energy-providing life blood of rural areas. Some articles are well-done and fairly well-sourced. Some articles are done just like this one is done. Prior to that, much of rural America had nothing but what a local area could put together, if anything. That said ... you can nit-pick and delete the sparse ones like this, or you can come up with a better solution. — Maile (talk) 15:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:

Please see North Dakota's Electric Distribution Cooperatives

This source only contains a link to their website. No coverage at all. Please see WP:ORGDEPTH for the criteria. This comment is not in line with WP:OR. If extremely sparse primary sources were to be patched together, then original research would be needed to complete the article (like drawing connections with the Rural Electrification Act, for example). बिनोद थारू (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Maile66. Coverage almost always exists for such utilities and there is some coverage if someone with access searches on newspapers.com. Someone with access to WP:PAYWALLEDSOURCES can see the coverage. 72.172.120.125 (talk) 20:37, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have done the deed on Google News archive and none is significant coverage or one that meets WP:CORPDEPTH. Here's what I found:

Cavalier Rural Electric Cooperative, Clearwater-Polk Electric Cooperative, Minnkota Power Cooperative, Nodak Electric Cooperative, North Star Electric Cooperative,: PKM Electric Cooperative, Red Lake Electric Cooperative, Red River [...] (Farmers Independent. ‎Mar 17, 1993)
They were cruising up and down the ditches having a good old time," said Kerry Mikkelsen, line superintendent for1 the Cavalier Rural Electric Co-op in Langdon (McCook Daily Gazette. ‎May 14, 2004)
Cavalier Rural Electric Board for over 30 years, taking his father's place when Irwhi retired from the board. (Turtle Mountain Star. ‎Dec 10, 2007)

Using those as basis for an article would be an egregious failure of WP:PRIMARY and the corporations guideline.

The best source I have been able to find, not a newspaper, is "Report of the Rural Electrification Administration (1953)". It is searchable on Google with the term "Cavalier Rural Electric" (with quotes).

The enthusiasm for the development of rural electrification in the Great Plains was vividly demonstrated at the meeting of Cavalier Rural Electric Cooperative, shortly after VJ-day. More than 700 farmers and their families crowded into the little school auditorium at Langdon, N. Dak., to hear about the new Cavalier Co-op and what it could do for them. Co-op leaders, remembering the prewar skepticism of many North Dakota farmers when electricity for their homes and farms was discussed, had doubted that more than 40 would turn out for the meeting. The North Dakota farmers by thousands clamored for electricity. That demand spread across the Nation in every type of farming area. Even in Alaska [...]

The only information one can take out of that is that it was created between 1944-1953. Yet the creation date is present in all of the company articles that get routinely deleted here. And saying it was created in 1944-1953 can be construed as original research, since the source doesn't directly say it.

बिनोद थारू (talk) 20:45, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, mainly due to lack of WP:SIGCOV by independent secondary sources, no evidence thus far that WP:CORPDEPTH has been satisfied. Left guide (talk) 21:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious Keep

In order to build an encyclopedia, the community created {{citation needed}} tags.
The previous AfD came on the heels of this failed WP:PROD initiated by the nom, who is now using a different rationale. This is after the admin who closed out the previous AfD wrote I just want to emphasize that BEFORE is an important step prior to any AFD nomination and it's useful to share the results of any BEFORE search that was done. Here is WP:BEFORE.
The community is not obligated to tediously devote resources to flagrant wikilawyering by a single-purpose editor specializing in AfDs (contributions history).
As regards WP:SIGCOV, a non-profit electrical utility that serves an essential service (electricity) to many thousands of users is far-cry from some random Dairy Queen or “Al’s Tire-O-Rama” in nearby Belcourt on State Route 10. Citing WP:SIGCOV as a basis for deleting this article flies in the face of the very reason we have Category:Electric cooperatives of the United States.

Greg L (talk) 22:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy procedural close - The last AfD has only just concluded, and although Liz said there was no penalty against a return trip, I am sure she did not mean a return trip on the same day she closed it! The AfD was closed as no consensus. Leave it two months before re-nominating. It gives a chance to improve the page/find sources and if nothing changes, then sure, bring it back to AfD at the beginning of March. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 23:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The previous discussion (which I didn't even start) was interrupted by three people (Locke Cole, Greg L and his alt MLee1957) who were angry at my prior nomination of a WP:FAKEARTICLE-type user page [4]. So the closer allowed to renominate it with no prejudice.

If it were a case of no consensus due to strong keep/delete votes and no alts, then yes, it would be advisable to wait half a year before obtaining new consensus. बिनोद थारू (talk) 23:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@बिनोद थारू:: With regard to WP:FAKEARTICLE, you need to better familiarize yourself with Wikipedia and its processes and infrastructure. WP:Sandboxex are where editors work on articles outside of user-space; that’s what they’re there for. As for User:MLee1957 being an “Alt” account, this sockpuppet investigation resulted in the obvious conclusion as follows: which clearly indicates two people in two separate places. I ask you to not engage in baseless allegations on that score from hereon. Greg L (talk) 23:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I second the motion for Speedy procedural close in part, per the reasons stated by Sirfurboy🏄. More importantly, I spent a small fraction of the time the community has so-far wasted on this disruption by adding two much-needed citations establishing where Cavalier Rural Electric Cooperative is headquartered and what area it serves. Thus, the foundational premiss upon which this AfD is based is moot. Adding citations beats and endless cycle tendentious wikidrama. Greg L (talk) 00:12, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It has been established by others here that Cavalier Rural Electric Cooperative is A) notable (electrical co-ops have their own category here on Wikipedia), B) this AFD was improperly brought against the directions of the person who closed the last one, C) the article now has citations on two key facts. First a PROD, then an AFD. This new AFD, fresh on the heels of the previous one, should not have been started. MLee1957 (talk) 00:43, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. WP:SNOW keep and withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 01:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Simon Belmont

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Fails WP:GNG. Most of the reception were listicles and rankings. Simon quest's were the only notable, not him (He is not a complex character or something). The only good sources were this [5] and perhaps this? [6] GreenishPickle! (🔔) 14:13, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep There is WP:SIGCOV here that is pretty major. That combined with the Destructoid article mentioned here and the GamesRadar "unclothed gaming guys", while geeky, is enough in my eyes to prove notability weakly. That's ignoring literally everything Smash related about him as well. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Article has improved since last AFD. With the additinon source is good enough. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 20:35, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw Oof. I guess I'm mistaken something. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 23:09, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. While there's some discussion about a merge to the primary character page being proper, there is no consensus to delete. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 16:48, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zhongli (Genshin Impact)

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Fails GNG. This character has receive little to zero commentary. The only good sources were the criticism about its gameplay? but those doesn't really help; others were trivia. This source is the only good one [7]. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 13:49, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Alright so I'm going to begin this by stating that this article was created in translation of the Chinese version. Now The Chinese Wikipedia has its own reliable secondary sources list concerning video game articles. And yes, I'm well aware that the standards vary significantly between the two versions but some Chinese language sources are currently unavailable in the English Wikipedia as for example, references 8 and 41 are cited as a reliable source according to consensus. There are also entire secondary Chinese studies conducted on Zhongli including references 13 and 30, demonstrating notability in at least Chinese audiences. Furthermore, the character's popularity is well established by both English and Chinese reliable sources. Addressing the The only good sources were the criticism? but those doesn't really help argument, there are articles on the English Wikipedia that gained notability based on controversies or criticism involving either gameplay or characterization such as Tingle, Ashley Graham (GA), and The Outsider. Now you could make the argument that perhaps there should be a dedicated paragraph and a rewrite of the Zhongli Incident or that his reception section could use some work in terms of the overall writing and structure but that doesn't really warrant outright deletion/merging as per WP:DELETIONISNOTCLEANUP. Regardless, I'll look into finding further sources if other editors don't seem to find the current sourcing satisfactory enough. SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 03:28, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Either your rationale isn't really an "argument". That 3 articles you mentioned were being discussed by multiple sources, while this one doesn't really but the gameplay mostly; this falls under gamecruft. Adding more chinese sources or other rankings and listicles, it doesn't help; save your precious time. Only the Siliconera source were the good one. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 08:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Greenish Pickle!: Now this: Adding more chinese sources or other rankings and listicles, it doesn't help; save your precious time. Only the Siliconera source were the good one. I'm getting an impression that apparently, only English sources are of any apparent significance when last time I checked, foreign-language secondary sources count as being equally reliable as their English counterparts per WP:SIGCOV and WP:GLOBAL. By the way, I could also name problems with the sourcing in the articles I've cited as for example, references 26, 27, and 30 of The Outsider article at best only have passing mentions which is insignificant coverage, even if there are decent sources in the other two paragraphs as well as the development section. Regardless, I've since added two more paragraphs going over analysis of his characterization referenced by scholarly sources as well as fully replaced every unreliable source prior to nomination. SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 12:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As a Chinese Wikipedian working on the corresponding Chinese article, I was improving the Chinese article in the past few days. Although I haven't proposed Good Article Nomination yet, @SuperSkaterDude45: maybe you can check the revisions and start translating the new stuff, if that helps. Supergrey1 (talk) 06:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- For the commentary part, I cited four journal articles in the current Chinese version, all reaching the minimum of WP:SCHOLARSHIP. Adding them into the English article may help improve notability issues. Supergrey1 (talk) 07:34, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge To List of Genshin Impact characters. Sources that are reliable in Chinese Wikipedia are not necessarily reliable in English Wikipedia, and editors should probably be cognizant of that before bringing over articles. Wikipedia is also not a popularity contest, per WP:ITSPOPULAR. This article reads like a FANDOM page. If this character really is notable, please include WP:THREE best sources in any language here, because the article lacks sufficient significant coverage. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Of all sources that I could find, probably this was only good one [8]. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 08:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that one is pretty good. Although WP:VG/S recommends to replace Siliconera sources with better ones, so it's definitely not enough on its own, much less being the best one in an article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 09:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you guys only care about English reliable sources listed in WP:VG/S, I can add two more (Dot Esports GamesRadar ) so we now have three. Multiple news article reporting the recent collab between Genshin Impact and Sanxingdui Museum (Zhongli as the collab character) can also prove notability, though they are in Chinese (Jiefang Daily Wenhui Bao Sichuan Daily). Supergrey1 (talk) 09:11, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dot itself isn't a good source that helps notability issue, plus the source just talks about his other name? That's it. On the other hand, its just a passing mentions at the GamesRadar source. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 09:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What you said may be correct, but that doesn't violate WP:GNG: Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. Supergrey1 (talk) 09:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Zxcvbnm: Unless there is an established consensus regarding the verifiability on Chinese-language sources that remain absent on the English Wikipedia as of writing this, established consensus on the Chinese Wikipedia will do. In addition, can you clarify your point on This article reads like a FANDOM page considering most of the article is paraphrased from secondary sources? This isn't even mentioning the contents within the article itself scholarly sources are being used within the contents since there are currently around four which as Supergrey pointed out, qualifies for WP:SCHOLARSHIP. I've already highlighted two independent references, but I've since translated even further content that has been added from the Chinese Wikipedia as well as replacing any unreliable sources remaining within the article. At this point, there isn't really any good reason to delete this article as secondary coverage has just been further reinforced. SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 11:27, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SuperSkaterDude45: The two Twitter sources and the two Forbes' Paul Tassi sources can also be replaced by other sources. I've replaced them on Chinese Wikipedia. Supergrey1 (talk) 11:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SuperSkaterDude45: Also, I added a popularity ranking by Japanese media in "Commercial reception," and added more comments on art designs in the first paragraph of "Critical reception." You haven't translated them yet. Supergrey1 (talk) 12:00, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After these improvements, now the page looks so much better. Keep. Supergrey1 (talk) 08:25, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This seems pretty good. Somebodyidkfkdt (talk) 09:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the Chinese sources doesn't help WP:GNG at English Wikipedia. GreenishPickle! (🔔) 09:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
According to WP:NOTE, sources don't have to be in English to count towards GNG. Somebodyidkfkdt (talk) 09:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. This is one of the four Chinese journal articles I mentioned (the first article below).
- 王清爽 (2023). "网游中的虚拟角色设计赏析——以《原神》为例". 大众文艺 (3): 57–59. doi:10.3969/j.issn.1007-5828.2023.03.023. CNKI DZLU202303019.
- 蒙紫云; 邓桂英 (2023). "试论游戏符号的媒介隐喻提升跨文化传播". 新闻潮 (10): 39–42. CNKI XWCY202310011.
- 甘丽华; 任执政; 欧阳敏; 鲍娟 (2023). "作为跨文化传播新载体的中国游戏：基于玩家的考察". 跨文化传播研究第7辑. pp. 122–134. ISBN 978-7-5657-3390-1. CNKI KWHC202301007.
- 刘姝秀 (2021). "游戏环境下的中国文化输出探索——以《原神》为例". 科技传播 (8): 112-114. doi:10.3969/j.issn.1674-6708.2021.08.043. CNKI KJCB202108063.
Supergrey1 (talk) 09:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The sources listed above by Supergrey1 seem more than enough for GNG. Somebodyidkfkdt (talk) 11:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The scholar sources make this character meet WP:GNG. As noted by others and WP:NONENG, sources do not need to be in English to meet WP:GNG. Google Translate/DeepL/ChatGPT provide more than good enough translations nowadays to verify content. Jumpytoo Talk 21:51, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: @Greenish Pickle!: Leaving that {{canvassed}} note on the top of the page while not elaborating or participating in the discussion more? At least you have to point out who you were referring to, and why. Also, you forgot to subst: the template. Supergrey1 (talk) 14:00, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't get me wrong - I don't mean to upset you or anything. If you still believe the article fails GNG, then say so, and explain your opinions. Saying all these editors who voted "Keep" to be canvassed by someone is not really helpful to the discussion (unless you actually found someone to be canvassing). Supergrey1 (talk) 14:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Daniel (talk) 12:03, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Future of Oil

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This is a self-published book that does not appear to have been reviewed by any known outlets. Thenightaway (talk) 13:02, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: No book reviews found, even in .ca websites. Can only find use of the phrase. Delete for lack of sourcing, not meeting BOOK. Oaktree b (talk) 15:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - I could only find one book review from a non-reliable source. 4 out of 7 sources are from the author of the book itself. Does not appear to meet WP:N. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 18:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Couldn't find anything to meet WP:NBOOK, though the title doesn't exactly make it an easy search. Happy new year! ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 03:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Valid disambiguation page. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 01:31, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NS25

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Previously deleted, no citatons provided iVickyChoudhary (talk) 11:35, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I don't see the issue. Disambiguation pages usually don't need citations. Geschichte (talk) 11:51, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I can't see any record of a previous deletion. Have you got a link to any previous deletion discussions or PROD rationale? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:52, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I saw Peviously deleted message on Special:NewPagesFeed. iVickyChoudhary (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, as a disambiguation page that is serving the purpose of disambiguating the term. BD2412 T 14:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment citations are not allowed on disambiguation pages. So, this deletion nomination is faulty. What was previously deleted? Was it a disambiguation page or some other topic? Was it a ship article? -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 14:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - It's a disambiguation page, no need for citations. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 17:49, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. You don't need to add citations to disambiguations. 176.33.241.125 (talk) 19:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the above. Left guide (talk) 23:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean previously deleted? I don't see it. @InterstellarGamer12321: promoted it from an anonymous draft to main space recently. --Joy (talk) 08:37, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this was an AfC draft and I accepted it to mainspace because it seemed like a good and potentially valuable disambiguation page. To the nominator: disambiguation pages are not meant to have inline citations. Therefore I think we should keep this disambiguation page. InterstellarGamer12321 (talk | contribs) 08:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mirelly Taylor

AfDs for this article:

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Last AfD in 2007. Article completely lacks any non-passing mention source. Googling reveals almost all hits are derived from her notable husband, Brian Tee. I am unable to find any independent coverage. Fermiboson (talk) 11:31, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, If anyone reviews Taylor's article at this very moment, it is noticeable that multiple sources have been added since the message above. I believe deleting Taylor's article is now pointless. Fox Guardian (talk) 18:45, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The NYT article is a passing mention and IMDb is not reliable. Sgubaldo (talk) 23:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, fails WP:NBASIC and WP:NACTOR. Available sources are just passing mentions, I did not find any signicant coverage. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 23:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I also could not find any significant coverage. Any sources specifically related to her are just IMBd and other databases. Sgubaldo (talk) 01:39, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amit Patkar

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Fails to meet NPOL or GNG. State presidents/candidates of political parties must meet the WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO criteria for a standalone article. – DreamRimmer (talk) 11:05, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per nom. ~~ αvírαm|(tαlk) 11:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I previously moved it to draft just because it doesn’t meet WP:NPOL, delete per nomination. — Syed A. Hussain Quadri (talk) 11:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete: Mentions of the individual and interviews, but nothing about the person. Delete for lack of sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 15:02, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 20:07, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Melbourne City FC 8–1 Brisbane Roar FC

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Fails WP:NOTNEWS and WP:LASTING. More than enough to mention it on a record list. Geschichte (talk) 10:56, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Other "highest goalscoring records" articles exist, both in the A-League (eg. Central Coast Mariners FC 2–8 Newcastle Jets FC), and outside of the A-League (Liverpool F.C. 9–0 AFC Bournemouth) More information can be added to the article which can bring it up to a similar quality of these articles, as much more information about the subject exists. Milkk7 (talk) 15:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is an invalid argument. Also you can't compare the English Premier League to other leagues, be it in terms of viewership, publicity or generated coverage. Geschichte (talk) 15:37, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment – There could be integrated into the articles as of A-League records and statistics or Soccer records and statistics in Australia. Instead of creating a dedicated article for each match, a section for matches with a large number of goals could exist. Svartner (talk) 22:12, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, fine to mention on respective club articles, but does not justify a separate article. Swan505 (talk) 03:57, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Agree with initial comment by Geschichte, that it is enough to include on a record list. Spinifex&Sand (talk) 00:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSEVENT. LibStar (talk) 13:54, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Regular season games are generally not notable. Nothing about this one tells me that it is. TarnishedPath^talk 13:57, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Draftify‎. The article is now located at Draft:Lucas Sant. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:10, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lucas Sant

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Player has made one appearance in a cup game but does not yet have significant coverage, as far as I can see. It is a case of TOOSOON and the article should probably be draftified. MarchOfTheGreyhounds 10:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Draftify or delete. Fails GNG - the only meaningful coverage I can find of him is on the club's own website. Sincerely, Marksomnian. ^{(Talk to me or {{ping}} me)} 10:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify or redirect to 2023–24 Crewe Alexandra F.C. season. We need to instate a culture that halts the rush to create footballer articles after they play their very first game, and instead wait for them to establish themselves more. Geschichte (talk) 11:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify WP:TOOSOON. Svartner (talk) 12:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 15:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:59, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Benoît Allauzen

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Fails WP:GNG being the purchase manager for Swan at the Globe is not remotely notable? Theroadislong (talk) 09:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. prominent French sommelier - it's borderline WP:G11. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 10:12, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This is all there is [9]. Pure PROMO, non-notable and no sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 13:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. The best arguments below relative to our policies and guidelines are those for delete, and there is sufficient number of them to merit a consensus. Daniel (talk) 12:04, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MaNaDr

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Non-notable service offered by a non-notable company. Sources are basically primary sources. Doesn't satisfy our WP:GNG at best. Jamiebuba (talk) 09:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, while I can't speak for other countries which MaNaDr operates in, it is certainly notable and widely used in Singapore. I have just found more third-party sources referencing MaNaDr and I will edit them into the page shortly. --Surrealityy (talk) 09:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as not notable, nor per GNG nor per NCORP. --Moem-Meom (talk) 11:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I believe MaNaDr is notable as it is quite well-known at least in Singapore. Also, while Google search of "MaNaDr" mostly turns up primary sources, searching for Singapore telehealth apps in general will bring up many secondary sources that talk about MaNaDr. --Surrealityy (talk) 17:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, fails WP:GNG. The available secondary sources are trivial, most only discuss this service as part of a group of other similar services. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 23:11, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Daniel (talk) 12:03, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rajab Butt

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Rejected at AFC multiple times, but repeatedly moved to main space, fails WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG. Theroadislong (talk) 08:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, I could not find any evidence of substantial coverage on this individual outside of fan sites, self-published sources, and other similarly unreliable sources. Left guide (talk) 09:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete: Delete per nomination and i must say there may be COI in continuously moving the article to the mainspace. Submission of article by IP [10] and accepted by Doctoryusuf [11] where already rejected by Qcne [12]. — Syed A. Hussain Quadri (talk) 11:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep because looks like an notable Pakistani actor, Tiktoker, YouTuber, singer and model. 108.51.45.220 (talk) 12:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Not one RS used in the article, and I can't find any. Delete for lack of sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 13:20, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes GNG. ,murtaza200 (talk) 14:57, 29 December 2023 (UTC):Note:This user has made no other edits on Wikipedia. [reply]
Keep passes GNG and looks Notable actor Rezaqadri (talk) 14:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC):Note:This user has made no other edits on Wikipedia. [reply]
Keep Passes GNG shouldn't be deleted Johnjonyy (talk) 15:01, 29 December 2023 (UTC):Note:This user has made no other edits on Wikipedia. Checkuser note:: Confirmed socks. Spicy (talk) 18:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How exactly? We couldn't find sources as above. Please provide what you have. Oaktree b (talk) 15:03, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
this is one source https://pakistani.pk/rajab-butt/ then https://harpalgeo.tv/program/Rani then https://harpalgeo.tv/actor/Rajab-Butt then https://dramasplanet.com/person/rajab-butt/ then https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8l7k68 then https://www.urdupoint.com/videos/tiktoker-rajab-butt-jo-apni-mother-ke-sath-tiktok-bana-kar-famous-ho-gia-maa-jee-ki-jugtein.html Doctoryusuf (talk) 15:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
are these enough to support that he's notable or not because i have more sources as well Doctoryusuf (talk) 15:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
then https://story.com.pk/biography/rajab-butt-tiktoker-biography/ then https://hamariweb.com/profiles/rajab-butt_991 then https://elcinema.com/en/person/rajab-butt/ then https://reviewit.pk/rajab-butt-and-family-celebrating-eid/ Doctoryusuf (talk) 15:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
None of them are reliable and Thanks to Isabelle Belato, all of them created new accounts and commenting for keep. I already added that there maybe COI. — Syed A. Hussain Quadri (talk) 15:35, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The last two don't even work, and I don't think celebrating Eid is what we're looking for either. Oaktree b (talk) 17:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
{{Checkuser needed}} The above three keep votes are clearly by sock/meatpuppets. I've temp protected the page to stop the disruption. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 15:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Checkuser done. Yeah, those are socks. Blocked. Spicy (talk) 18:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: No amount of editing will make him notable. Fails WP:GNG. Seawolf35 ^T--C 03:57, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge‎ to Mississippi College Collegians football, 1907–1909. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1907 Mississippi College Collegians football team

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No notability found for this one game season to meet the WP:NSEASONS. PROD was declined. Let'srun (talk) 18:56, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. This was neither a "season" nor "college football". There was a single game played against a local boarding school. No sources are presented providing coverage of the game. (Also, the Choctaws are even today a lower division team.) Cbl62 (talk) 03:12, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as non-notable. Suitskvarts (talk) 13:01, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to and create Mississippi College Collegians football, 1907–1910. Mississippi College really didn't have regular-sized schedules (5 games) until after 1910 - as we have articles on all their early seasons, some type of merger would likely be best, as recommended by WP:NSEASONS. @Cbl62 and Suitskvarts: BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merger is not something a closer can consider unless the proposed merger target exists, and deletion of a one-sentence sub-stub on a single game against a boarding school is no great loss IMO. Cbl62 (talk) 23:22, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Cbl, huh? This AfD can mandate the creation of such a proposed merged article. You led the charge for exactly that action just two weeks ago at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1924 Delaware State Hornets football team. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Did you miss the "relisting comment" at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1924 Delaware State Hornets football team? Cbl62 (talk) 00:14, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I did miss the "relisting comment" from Liz. I see it now. If that's a policy, it's a bad one that should be changed. It put the onus on an editor to create a new target for the merge, which kind of subverts the AfD process. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:48, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand, that is the current policy. I did create the target article at that AfD, but I have no interest in doing that here, as I don't see the value that would be lost from a simple deletion. WP:OSE is not a good rationale even for a merge, IMO. If you or someone else wants to create it though in case that is the consensus, be my guest. Let'srun (talk) 01:38, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, NSEASONS says that "In cases in which the individual season notability is insufficient for an article, multiple seasons may be grouped together in a single article. This grouping might be based on head coaches, conference affiliation, or any other reasonable standard that results in sufficient coverage for the period to warrant an article." However, that doesn't mean that the topic is exempt from the notability guidelines simply because the seasons are combined. Let'srun (talk) 14:23, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Mississippi College Collegians football, 1907–1909; I think 1910 Mississippi College Collegians football team is substantial enough to stand alone, and we typically group seasons by decade, e.g. Delaware State Hornets football, 1924–1929, Temple Owls football, 1894–1899, Henry Kendall Orange and Black football, 1895–1899. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:39, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Although the consensus to remove the article is clear, the views are split between whether to delete or merge. That is worthy of further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 08:37, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion. Why not redirect to Mississippi College Choctaws football#History where this inaugaural 'season' is mentioned and manually write in the score and opposition for the team's very first recorded match? I don't see how one match amounts to a season, but do recognise the match has historic importance for the team. Surely, the detail has better context placed in that article? Rupples (talk) 09:43, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note I have created Mississippi College Collegians football, 1907–1909 and redirected 1908 Mississippi College Collegians football team and 1909 Mississippi College Collegians football team there. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:00, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it thought necessary to repeat the long table detailing other teams' results when the same table is included in the wikilinked season article? Presentation wise it's leaving large blank spaces. Other than that, the merge looks Ok. Rupples (talk) 20:11, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As such, a note to the closer that if the result is to "merge", that has already been done, so this can close as a redirect. Let'srun (talk) 15:35, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quwestion @Jweiss11: why not 1910 Mississippi College Collegians football team too? Geschichte (talk) 19:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte: Jweiss11 answered that question just above the relisting. Let'srun (talk) 01:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 03:14, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arabesque TV

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Doesn't pass WP:GNG. I tried clicking "The official homepage" link on the bottom of the article, but the site doesn't mention any "Arabesque". Was previously nominated for AfD but speedy kept because nominator gave the wrong reason. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 12:49, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Not eligible for Soft Deletion. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, an article with the correct name already exists at Arab Radio and Television Network. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 22:59, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ArX

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No independent sources indicating any notability of this version control system. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 07:44, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, fails WP:GNG. I was unable to find significant coverage of this version control system in secondary sources. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 22:31, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Vanamonde93 (talk) 08:21, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lineker Machado

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Poorly sourced BLP on Indian men's footballer which fails WP:GNG. All I found in my searches were passing mentions (2012, 2014, 2019, etc.) JTtheOG (talk) 07:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 12:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. No prejudice against speedy renomination per low participation. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:35, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Humane Sagar

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Does not pass the criteria of notability as a musician. Has not received any award as an artist by national or state government. No references and thumbnail articles Md Joni Hossain (talk) 04:38, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment rather than no references there are 55 already in the article. Those with significant coverage include this, Atlantic306 (talk) 23:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting so we can hear from more editors about this article subject.
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Receiving an award from a national or state government is not a prerequisite for an article's general notability. Coverage in reliable sources is the measure of notability for Wikipedia. At a minimum, there are multiple (at least two; a more familiar editor might argue more) sources of non-trivial coverage establishing the article topic as a subject. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 01:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:53, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abhishek Kumar (Computational biologist)

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Doubt on subject's notability. Looks like a resume. References are mostly his own publications. Nothing found to satisfy WP:GNG. Macbeejack ☎ 05:31, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Unless good sources pop up, this is WP:TOO SOON. Web of Science gives h-index of 30.[13] Jähmefyysikko (talk) 08:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:50, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abu Iman

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Previously moved to draft and recreated within 20 minutes. Draft:Abu Iman. Does not pass GNG. WP:Before has some hits for Abu Iman but not sure if they are the same person as the subject. Jeraxmoira (talk) 05:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete searched in English and Arabic and found nothing at all so this doesn’t seem borderline to me. Anyone wanting to recreate this needs to source it properly. Given the nature of the subjects name and multiple different similar permutations there is no prospect of an editor other than the creator doing the work to find sources in this. Mccapra (talk) 08:05, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 04:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Human Age

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Non-notable defunct European browser game with a page that largely hasn't changed in over a decade. The sourcelist is comprised of the browser game's site and other host sites with no reliable secondary sources or evidence of actual commentary on the game. Lack of publisher information and the potential for WP:NONENG sources to be out there makes it difficult to find anything on this title for a WP:BEFORE. Thanks in advance for your help. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 04:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Oh joy, they really picked a fantastic name to search for without other stuff popping up. Honestly, this is WP:TNT regardless of whether it is notable. There isn't a single reliable source. If the game is notable, it needs to be rewritten and go through AfC. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: It should probably be disambiguated immediately afterwards, as things like Anthropocene and Ages of Man are also equivalent primary topics for this term. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, fails WP:GNG. A disambiguation page would be useful but it would need to be created separately at Human age. SailingInABathTub ~~🛁~~ 21:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:19, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yamaha OPL

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WP:GNG — does not appear to have received significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject. The article appears to comprise large amounts of original research, most of which is of interest only to a niche audience rather than a general readership. The few existing citations comprise unreliable sources such as YouTube videos, GitHub, Google documents and random PDFs.

Popcornfud (talk) 15:14, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: No sourcing down to this level of granularity found. could be some OR. Sourcing used in the article isn't helpful for RS. Oaktree b (talk) 15:36, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Yamaha products per nom. Man, synth-heads have published a lot of cruft over the years. Mach61 (talk) 17:53, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Tell me about it. It's an area that doesn't get a lot of attention from editors and sometimes it's difficult to get consensus to remove things even when it's unsourced or unlikely to ever be sourced. Popcornfud (talk) 18:40, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: we already have articles for Yamaha YMF7xx, Yamaha YM2413, Yamaha Y8950 and Yamaha YMF278, all of which belong to this family. That's not a reason to keep this--or any--article, of course. But seeing as this article is better written than any of the individual device ones, wouldn't it make more sense to merge the device pages into this article, assuming we can find sourcing for any of them? While I'm no synth-head myself, Bluefoxicy and others have done some great work collecting information on what I see as a potentially encyclopedic topic that would be a good merge target for a handful of pages that are likely not sustainable as a standalone article. Would it make sense to Draftify while those familiar with the subject work on merging and sourcing? This may be a bigger project than a single AfD can handle. I'd appreciate feedback from those more familiar with this topic. Owen× ☎ 15:31, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Draftification cannot overcome a lack of notability. Mach61 (talk) 21:13, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. My suggestion was based on the assumption that sources establishing notability can be found at least for some of the devices in this family, allowing for the merged article to meet NPRODUCT. Owen× ☎ 22:05, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I can't really speak too much as to notability as per Wikipedia standards (I have pretty much no idea what I'm doing here...) but I do feel I should at least point out that two parts in this series - the YM3812/OPL2 and YMF262/OPL3 - were some of the most popular sound chips in personal computers in the early-to-mid 1990s. The article already mentions a sentence or two about that but I'm not sure it gets across just how popular these parts were. I'd (on a personal level, not as a comment related to policy) be sad to see what I consider to be a quite useful article on some formerly very popular products go away. 2604:2D80:C805:0:12A:7E6B:41A1:3C00 (talk) 01:22, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's definitely useful and interesting stuff in the article — but it's the kind of thing that should be documented on a different wiki or personal blog, not Wikipedia. Popcornfud (talk) 01:33, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose the ideal(?) case would probably be having the article expanded on to more resemble something like MOS Technology 6581, which I'll certainly agree it currently doesn't. Is this something you see as a valid route, if someone (or a few people) were to put in the effort to do so? (note: I am the same user as the one ending in :41A1:3C00, my IP address just changed... I should create an account sometime) 173.29.158.71 (talk) 17:12, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's a great idea. As I said, I'm not familiar enough with the subject to be of much use on the authoring side, but if you need a helping hand on the administrative side, don't hesitate to give me a shout. And yes, please create an account. Justifiably or not, more weight is given to the opinions and edits of registered users. Owen× ☎ 17:22, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 04:09, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Draftify. A cursory search reveals sources with significant coverage of at least OPL2 and OPL3 such as https://archive.org/details/makingnoisecreat0000lein/page/38/mode/2up?q=YM3812 and https://archive.org/details/ultimatemultimed00jess/page/n457/mode/2up?q=YM3812. Some discuss waveforms and peculiar sound they produce: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Game_Engine_Black_Book_Wolfenstein_3D/hel6DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=YM3812&pg=PA94&printsec=frontcover. I believe these are sufficient to either improve the article on its own merits, cleaning up specialist detail, or develop it further into a broader article about Yamaha FM synthesiser chips as proposed by OwenX. PaulT2022 (talk) 07:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Yamaha OPL 2 & 3 are absolute staples of Retro DOS Gaming. They have been included in most vintage sound cards like AdLib or Sound Blaster either as genuine Yamaha chips or as emulation. OPL 2/3 sound was a standard in early 1990s PC games. Search YouTube for "OPL", and you'll find lots of videos about OPL2 & 3. OPL 3 is still emulated to this very day in emulators like DOSBox. OPL 2 & 3 are discussed extensively in articles and videos about sound cards. Variants of the OPL chip family were also included in several vintage Yamaha keyboards (most are already listed in the article), which have their collectors, too. The aforementioned articles about specific chips other than the OPL 2 (YM3812) and 3 (YMF262), i.e. YMF7xx, YM2413, Y8950 & YMF278, should be merged into this one IMHO. Mottenkiste (talk) 17:34, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:13, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

International Christian Medical and Dental Association

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Fails WP:NCORP. No WP:SIGCOV found on a WP:BEFORE. Only sources listed are the company's website. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 08:05, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep -- This is international umbrella organisation for organisations such as Christian Medical Fellowship (UK - membership over 5000) and Christian Medical and Dental Associations (US - membership 19500). Information on such associations is usually difficult to collect other than from their own website and publications, but does not mean that they are NN. It may well be that the 107 members are in fact 107 national fellowships. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:14, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Google scholar link above shows plenty of coverage in various publications, often in the context of international medical missions performed under the auspices of the group. News shows plenty of independent sources, one as far back as 2013 if enduring coverage were a concern. I'm puzzled that all this was missed in a BEFORE, as there certainly exist independent RS sufficient to improve the admittedly stubbish article. Jclemens (talk) 20:53, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Those news sources are passing mentions. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:25, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Although participants here argue to Keep this article, we need some independent, secondary sources supplying SIGCOV to verify at least some information in this article. That's the standard for all article subjects, even the most worthy organizations. Otherwise, this Wikipedia article is just an extension of the company's website.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:09, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Further comment -- The question should be "Is it notable?" (I say YES) and "Is there a potential redirect target?", to which I would answer that there is not. In response to the relisting comment, I would suggest that even passing references may verify the truth of a website. It there is nothing else, a brief description with a link to the website should probably be acceptable, in this case listing national member organisations for which WP has articles (and are presumably notable). This makes it more than a mere extension of the organisation's website. It may technically be a company, but is in essence a membership association. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:38, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Three relists in I'm not seeing a consensus here. The arguments to delete are stronger; sources counting WP:GNG via WP:SIGCOV have not been explicitly listed. However, I don't believe the imbalance is strong enough for a delete verdict; there are sources in the article that aren't so obviously disqualified that I can discount them as a closer, and no comprehensive source analysis was provided of these either. No prejudice to speedy renomination, but I suggest that those advocating to keep make an effort to find more sources that may render this unnecessary. Vanamonde93 (talk) 08:20, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MKSK

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PR for non notable local business. Coverage from local paper and business journal falls short of Audience. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:49, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Gosh I disagree about this AfD, particularly as one of the few Columbus/Ohio-based editors. MKSK is incredibly influencial, particularly in Central Ohio. Their work is the foundation of what has made the city what it is today, having worked on most city planning projects in Columbus. Columbus is also the largest city in Ohio, so the media sourced would meet the regional reqs in WP:AUD. As I mentioned earlier, it is incredibly unfortunate that the firm co-opted the article for their PR purposes but that is not a reason to delete. 9H48F (talk) 17:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Keep it appears to meet GNG. I've seen less notable companies kept for sketchier corporate biographies. I saw a bunch of sources on a cursory look through that aren't in the article from publications of local and regional interest. I do not know much about Columbus, Ohio, but since this firm is getting huge city contracts to build public stuff, they get some press. Andre🚐 07:12, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
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Keep: clearly filled with reliable sources that are about the firm itself and not about its projects – more notability than most architecture firms get. Sure there might be a few sentences that could be reworked to be less PR-speak but in terms of notability this passes. Dan • ✉ 21:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This is a company therefore GNG/WP:NCORP requires at least two deep or significant sources with each source containing "Independent Content" showing in-depth information *on the company*. "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. In plain English, this means that references cannot rely *only* on information provided by the company - such as articles that rely entirely on quotations, press releases, announcements, interviews, website information, etc - even when slightly modified. Here, the references are simply regurgitating company announcements and have no "Independent Content" in the form of independent analysis/fact checking/opinion/etc. I am unable to locate any references that do not rely entirely on information provided in this manner. HighKing 14:46, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: No references provide the trifecta of IS, RS and SIGCOV, so fails notability policies. UtherSRG (talk) 17:10, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 03:10, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jan Vrba (bobsledder)

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This AfD might be the same issue as I did with Michal Vacek back in late November. Google search results mix him with the late politician of the same name, but nothing much to say about this bobsleigh athlete. Corresponding articles in other languages are mostly poorly-sourced and a stub (I checked and translated them), especially Czech Wikipedia, which would help copy over to the English article otherwise. Even as a legit adult, we probably have to let him figure out what he wants to do with his life, then create a full biography if he receives significant coverage in reliable sources. CuteDolphin712 (talk) 09:15, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: The guy competed in, not one Olympic Games as the article suggests; but three, in addition to at least 7 World Championships. I certainly think it's important that all these incoming links point somewhere, which would indicate a redirect if coverage cannot be found. He also competed at the 1999 World Youth Championships in Athletics and the 2001 European Athletics Junior Championships [14], although age-specific sports is more of a curiosity. Geschichte (talk) 08:51, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can almost guarantee there will be coverage on a three-time Olympian and seven-time world champion participant in a sport like this. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:32, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Looking for coverage... so far there's this 400 word piece about him, although there are a lot of quotes. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:32, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - Some more coverage here, though its admittedly difficult to look when I don't know a word of the language! BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:41, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. Three-time Olympic participant and certainly one of the most important representatives of the sport in the country (even if the bar is low). Compared to Vacek it is possible to find something in the media, although I don't know if enough. FromCzech (talk) 06:43, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per above. Sources exist, so meets both WP:V and WP:SPORTCRIT as a somewhat major figure in his sport. Geschichte (talk) 11:44, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 03:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alekh Kumar Parida

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Not yet meet WP:FILMMAKER or WP:MUSICBIO. Macbeejack ☎ 06:25, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete As per above, not notable enough. killer bee  07:57, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep, Alekh is a notable singer. The news shows this very clearly. Even the coalition of two more people with Alekh is covered by the news channels. Historical Heritages of Bihar (talk) 06:44, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The Subject of the article genuinely passes the WP:GNG notability guidelines, as far he has many news articles in Hindi and in English also. (Koilwaar1 (talk) 13:01, 21 December 2023 (UTC))[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Policy based input would be helpful
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 15:04, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment No policy but I thought I'd mention that today I've been reviewing lots of newly created articles about people involved in music or film who have no real credits to their name. This was another article almost identical to others I've come across, created by Historical Heritages of Bihar and others by Koilwaar1. (like Sean David Lowe). Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep- I found these Below, should pass WP:BASIC [15], [16], [17] Wasilatlovekesy (talk) 06:17, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. UtherSRG (talk) 17:03, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Global Tech Security Commission

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Sources are mostly press releases, primary sources, or passing mentions. There's no significant independent and sustained coverage, making this probably not notable for a standalone article, although mentions to it in articles like Keith J. Krach would be due. MarioGom (talk) 13:58, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: I don't know if the half paragraph in The Hill I just added that explains the commission's purpose is enough to pass our notability threshold, but I'm sure more SIGCOV can be found. Owen× ☎ 16:15, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to George I, Prince of Waldeck and Pyrmont. clpo13_(talk) 19:47, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Princess Augusta of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen

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WP:NOTGENEALOGY. It's a repeat of information at George I, Prince of Waldeck and Pyrmont and consists solely of genealogical information. Fails WP:GNG. DrKay (talk) 19:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, should not be deleted. the Princess Augusta of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen is a historical person and is of interest for a online bibliotheca like Wikipedia. --92.76.102.53 (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, per 92.76.102.53 - I shall also add that there are short sections ("Early life" and "Later life") pertaining to her life. Scribbie (talk) 22:12, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I have added extra information prior to her early life and later life so it isn’t a copy of George I, Prince of Waldeck and Pyrmont. Most of it is about her and her family. Therefore doesn’t fit wp:NOTGENEALOGY. My other account reason : Princess Augusta of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen's article should definitely stay on Wikipedia for a variety of reasons. Firstly, she holds historical significance as a prominent figure in the 18th century, with her marriage and connections to other ruling houses. Additionally, her article is mostly cited, providing reliable sources for readers to explore further. Preserving her legacy ensures that future generations can learn about her accomplishments and the broader historical context. YorkDr (talk) 21:16, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify: while it's no longer a clear-cut case of WP:NOTGENEALOGY, the early life content is still very brief and uncited. With more citations and a cleaned-up or removed "marriage and issue" section it might pass notability Dan • ✉ 01:53, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: beyond the case of WP:NOTGENEALOGY. She was a historical princess, unlike today's seemingly insignificant or powerless constitutional monarchy. If you have a penchant for article deletion, please AfD them. Thanks. 85.229.188.50 (talk) 13:24, 19 December 2023 (UTC) ( Blocked sockpuppet of 2001:2042:6C20:F200:4531:44AE:5916:820A) DrKay (talk) 20:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Royaltycruft, fails GNG and NBIO. Notability is not inherited and nothing indicates this individual was notable in themselves or did anything of significance. The article is part genealogy (much of it unsourced) and part royaltycruft memorial. // Timothy :: talk 15:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Keep: Princess Augusta of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen's article should definitely stay on Wikipedia for a variety of reasons. Firstly, she holds historical significance as a prominent figure in the 18th century, with her marriage and connections to other ruling houses. Additionally, her article is mostly cited, providing reliable sources for readers to explore further. Preserving her legacy ensures that future generations can learn about her accomplishments and the broader historical context. Azarctic (talk) 21:15, 22 December 2023 (UTC) This user has already declared above, under a different user name (his third in as many weeks). DrKay (talk) 22:21, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist, looking for policy-oriented contributions which have been missing on the 'keep' side so far.
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Redirect to George I, Prince of Waldeck and Pyrmont per WP:ATD - not an implausible search term. Ingratis (talk) 08:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to George I, Prince of Waldeck and Pyrmont seems like a good solution, but please don't forget to add her portrait to his article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cielquiparle (talk • contribs) 06:37, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to her husband's article. I've already merged the relevant content there. Celia Homeford (talk) 12:24, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. clpo13_(talk) 19:42, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christopher Muneza

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Delete as an obviously promotional article. would've been speedied as WP:G11 if it wasn't put up for AfD.

Pfomma (talk) 23:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 December 8. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 00:41, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment: The nominator is the article's creator and they actually added an undisclosed paid editing tag (dif here) about 10 months after creating the article. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:01, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:41, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to garner more opinions here. I might have suggested a PROD prior to trying AFD.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:28, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Question: Both at this site's article and on the Internet at large, an exorbitant proportion of the subject's coverage comes from The New Times (Rwanda); how independent and reliable is that source? Left guide (talk) 02:58, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO, The New Times could be a reliable source since it discusses the subject indepth and is independent. Toadette ^{(Merry Christmas, and a happy new year)} 12:24, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Should this article be speedily deleted since the author voted delete while sources from The New Times and KTPress establishes notability for the subject? I would choose "keep" since it fairly passes WP:NBIO but what has been commented above suggest that the page be G7'ed. The nomination is really confusing for me. Toadette ^{(Merry Christmas, and a happy new year)} 12:24, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. If you had looked at the page history, which is the least any AFD discussion participant should do, you would have seen that the article was tagged CSD G7 at least twice, both times declined. The reasons are in the edit summaries.
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The result was merge‎ to Football in France. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:13, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of French football club owners

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WP:LISTCRUFT and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. List serves little purpose, is completely unsourced, and poorly upkept. Owners are already listed on each club article, which is sufficient. Paul Vaurie (talk) 02:49, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep or merge to Football in France; there's this article by Le Monde which directly matches the subject of the list and this article by Bloomberg News that appears to be more of a partial match (behind a paywall). Left guide (talk) 03:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Merge to Football in France – Per Left guide. Svartner (talk) 12:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Merge/redirect as above - if it is kept, title will need to change, as it is ambiguous (is it owners of French football clubs, or French owners of football clubs anywhere in the world?) Giant Snowman 15:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@GiantSnowman: I also noticed that ambiguity at first. The article refers to owners of the clubs that play in France's football leagues; in this list, some of the owners are foreigners, but all of the clubs are French. So List of owners of French football clubs might be an appropriate title if kept. Left guide (talk) 21:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Left Guide. Srijanx22 (talk) 06:23, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Left Guide, doesn't need a separate article. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:06, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Totally against merging unsourced content, I am strongly against any merge, we have categories for a reason. What's this list doing that a category can't? Govvy (talk) 15:58, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. clpo13_(talk) 19:46, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oxometrical society

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Non notable University Society. Lacks depth of coverage in independent reliable sources. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:52, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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An entire article on a joke university society that doesn't let Wikipedia readers in on the joke. Sidney John Baker did in 1953, but alas didn't have much to say other than explaining the joke, and that's about the extent to which this has been reliably documented. The sources at hand don't really say much, either. The Melbourne Argus is mostly going on about the Ern Malley hoax, for example. Uncle G (talk) 23:01, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This point has now been address in the latest edits - further content and sources added. Hope this now helps satisfy? :) Skullbound (talk) 01:04, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More links to further independent sources have now been added.

Is it enough to have the nomination for deletion now removed? Skullbound (talk) 01:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All you've done is bombarded it with more passing mentions, So no, not enough. And it also raises questions about your own use of oxo shite. Sources you've provided simply do not directly support the text you have written. Are you looking for a degree yourself? duffbeerforme (talk) 13:53, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I suggest that this now be kept. Bduke (talk) 06:34, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Agreed with duffbeerforme, article is just peppered with trivial mentions. If someone could find just two or three good in-depth references, they could bulldoze this whole thing and rewrite an informative article. But a dozen or more passing mentions do not add up to information. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 16:01, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Final relisting. Right now there is no consensus.
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Delete: Agreed with duffbeerforme. Where it is mentioned in reliable sources it is only mentioned in passing. No in depth coverage. TarnishedPath^talk 10:52, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. I see a consensus that this article should be Kept although it's sourcing could be improved (as is the case with many articles). Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:07, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Erik Voorhees

AfDs for this article:

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He's had executive roles at a number of crypto-related companies and exchanges but only Shapeshift looks notable, and it doesn't look like he meets WP:GNG either. Probably either delete or redirect to Shapeshift. BuySomeApples (talk) 01:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There are a number of high quality RS on the article (Bloomberg, New Yorker, Venturebeat, etc) and mentioned a lot of times in Google books search. Article lacks depth, but doesnt seem to lack notability and thus meets WP:GNG. For example this FT piece quotes him 3x in relation to his views on cryptocurrency, without mention of shapeshift. Business Insider lists him as #3 crypto influencer. I added a couple of sources to the article to add evidence of notability. Plenty of mainstream coverage here separate from this former (and now defunct) firm shapeshift. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 03:09, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like either passing mentions in articles about other topics or quotes from him, neither of which help him to meet GNG. Are there any RSes that talk about him at length (especially if they aren't about ShapeShift)? BuySomeApples (talk) 05:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I found one pretty easily after you asked. Have you done a google search for this subject prior to nomination? I simply just searched for "eric voorhees biography" and got this from forbes (a biographical and apparently in depth piece). Assuming you have done a basic google search prior to this nomination, the problem with these article subjects in cryptocurrency is that they generate so much press that is low quality, it somewhat drowns out the RS, and forbes staff writer is RS btw. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 05:59, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's much better! Thank you for finding that, if you can replace some of the passing mentions with more sources like that then I think this might work. BuySomeApples (talk) 06:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As for depth, he was one of the personalities featured in the film The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin, as well as two other films, according to IMDB . In looking around for more RS (and depth), I have found and added some other content that also would not make sense with a merge to Shapeshift, such as the SatoshiDice content (article subject founded satoshi dice which accounted for half of bitcoin volume at one point in time), nor the article subjects recent notable comments (picked up in books & press) relating to his opposition for crypto-regulation (comments were made in reaction to Sam Bankman-Fried's comments). As for notability the article checks all the boxes, featured in films (as himself), mentioned in books published large publishers, WSJ, FT, Forbes, Ars Technica, Reuters, New Yorker, etc all in varying levels of depth of coverage. Google search replies with 1M results (of course many are not RS). Its an article for improvement issue, not a GNG issue and the article will improve over time, like most do generally speaking. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 08:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can you find something other than WP:IMDB for the movies? Right now the only great source imo is Forbes. FT is decent depth but is about shapshift. WSJ is a single mention and Ars Technica, Reuters, and New Yorker have 1 quote each so not sigcov. The VentureBeat article about SatoshiDice raising money is a maybe. The book refs don't have page numbers so I'm not sure if they have in depth coverage of him or quotes/single mentions like some of the articles. BuySomeApples (talk) 10:01, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We dont have to see sigcov from every source, we will see it in some and not others. As Moem-Meom (talk · contribs) says below, there is also sigcov in some wsj sources as well. When I added the books to the article, I also added the url of the book mention. For example in this diff you will see in edit summary I added a link to google books, to make it easier to WP:V. An example that we are facing a blue sky issue is this source in Fortune, where the source's title is "Sam Bankman-Fried, Erik Voorhees and the battle for crypto’s soul", and this tells us that the opinion of Voorhees is sufficiently notable to Fortune's readers (as compared to SBF's opinion) that they write a piece on it. Nothing about shapeshift here, only about positions on current events (in that case crypto regulation). As for sources, for the movie Banking on Bitcoin, I found the article subject's name also listed at appletv and at primevideo and the movie Bitcoin Beyond the Bubble is in tvguide. I didnt add those to the article, as they might not be RS. Your characterizations of passing mention and single quotes doesnt address the fact that the subject appears in three movies as himself, nor does it address that he is commonly quoted on current event issues unrelated to shapeshift, and probably is inaccurate in itself as both Moem-Moem and I are disputing your passing mention assertions as well. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 20:42, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per GNG and ANYBIO and good enough media coverage that helps to establish a notability and write a decent bio page. Moem-Meom (talk) 11:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have recently conducted research and discovered comprehensive media coverage by the Wall Street Journal, which has not been previously used on the page. I have already added this material. For instance this WSJ investigation is really huge, and devoted to Voorhees personality and money laundering and crypto related topics. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-dirty-money-disappears-into-the-black-hole-of-cryptocurrency-1538149743 Here is another WSJ significant coverage (https://www.wsj.com/articles/firm-tied-to-cryptocurrency-entrepreneur-faces-sec-investigation-1542319602?mod=Searchresults_pos2&page=1) deeply describing both Voorhees and his company. Voorhees was mentioned nearly 40 times across both articles. These coverages are not just cursory mentions akin to 'Mr. X said...', but rather they provide in-depth analyses. Moem-Meom (talk) 12:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Jtbobwaysf I hope my vote and comment will help. To be frank, I was inspired by your arguments. Moem-Meom (talk) 12:31, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The subject has become a reference in the industry and is often cited. He made a very important BTC transaction in early crypto days (2013). As per Business Insider, listed Voorhees at #3 on their list of crypto influencers. As well as being featured in a significant piece in Forbes [18] referring to him as Bitcoin’s Last Gunslinger. He has been mentioned and featured in man other reputable media such as The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Business Insider, Ars Technica, Reuters, The New Yorker and CNN Money. Very clear establishment of WP:GNG and WP:ANYBIO. Lethweimaster (talk) 14:26, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note - I'm seeing problems with the sourcing here. Information has citations which do not directly support these claims. For example, this source was used for his career in the "communication sphere" saying he previously worked at something called Podium Group and Better Homes. In addition to being far too much like a resume, the source says nothing at all to support this. This kind of bland trivia with tacked-on sources is usually a sign of WP:COI or even WP:AUTOBIO editing. I would suggest carefully reviewing these sources, even the paywalled ones, before !voting. Grayfell (talk) 21:25, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It appears you have corrected those issues in your recent series of edits. You also removed the text stating " 126,315 bitcoins, equivalent to $11.5 million at the time" and changed to simply the USD value, in this diff. I am guessing this is one of the largest bitcoin transactions in history, so why you would think that is trivia? An editor above mentioned the article subject's notability was in part tied to making such as large transaction, while you feel it is trivia. Seems a large gulf in opinions, maybe you might explain. While it is possible that this article (like many) has had COI edits at some point in time, I do not presently see any editors doing that, and for purposes of avoidance of doubt (in case your comment was directed towards me or someone else in this thread), I have no COI with the article subject, his past employers, etc. Do you see any other problems with the sourcing? Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 05:38, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we have to look at the subject objectively: the guy is an early adopter of Bitcoin, pioneered the space and has become a reference in the world of cryptocurrency. We can clean up sources that we feel are promotional or trivial, but in my opinion only with the pieces on Wall Street Journal and Forbes the subject's notability is clearly established through WP:GNG. Lethweimaster (talk) 10:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you think that saying he "pioneered the space" is "objective", we may have other problems. I do not accept that these sourcing problems have been fixed. Look at what sources are actually saying. Do not write WP:BACKWARDS. Do not fill-in promotional first-hand knowledge about "the world of cryptocurrency". That doesn't belong on Wikipedia.

What an editor guesses is important is irrelevant. The specific quantity of bitcoin is not automatically relevant to this biography, and context comes from sources, not editors. For all sources, WP:CONTEXTMATTERS, so the mere existence of these sources is not enough to claim GNG. If you want to use these sources to claim notability, you have to summarize what they actually say. I notice that the WSJ source is the first in the article, but nowhere in the article is money laundering even mentioned. This tells us the article is not being cited for facts, it's being used to prop-up the article. I assume whoever cited that source has full access to it. That editors should summarize what it actually says about Voorhees. Grayfell (talk) 22:33, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please advise the specific sourcing problems so we can address them. The money laundering claim is interesting as well, do we have something for that? I read the SEC fine was for the shares offering (I think the subject was selling shares in satoshidice, but dont quote me on that). Was he also cited for money laundering? I dont have a paywall account right now for wsj. Thanks Jtbobwaysf (talk) 08:39, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jtbobwaysf @Grayfell I have a paywall to WSJ and there is a significant and great coverage with many critics of course. I've added this to the lead paragraph of the page, including references to money laundering, North Korean hackers, etc. Hope the page is balanced now. Moem-Meom (talk) 10:44, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep‎. Nomination withdrawn Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:55, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kuchinotsu No. 37

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I made this article in January of 2021 when I knew less about editing Wikipedia. The only reliable sources I can find about this cultivar are mentions in articles about other cultivars. It was tagged for notability in September this year. AllTheUsernamesAreInUse (talk) 00:06, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I think you can just speedy delete it under WP:G7. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 00:15, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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- @Deltaspace42: I am unsure if it is notable or not. AllTheUsernamesAreInUse (talk) 01:21, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 'Encore' mandarin: if you're not sure about notability, let's just redirect the page to the more notable of its parents, where it is already mentioned. This can always be undone by any editor, if notability becomes clearer. Owen× ☎ 13:38, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think there's notability here. I did a Google Scholar search and turned up quite a few mentions. [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] among others. Unfortunately, I don't have access to these articles. My Japanese isn't quite good enough for academic uses, but searching for "津之望つののぞみ" brings up numerous articles. DCsansei (talk) 14:44, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 01:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

DCsansei, Are you sure that 'Tsunonozomi' is the same as Kuchinotsu No.37? I may withdraw this AfD nomination. AllTheUsernamesAreInUse (talk) 05:58, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I believe sufficient sources have been found to prove this cultivar's notability. AllTheUsernamesAreInUse (talk) 22:52, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge‎ to Five Nights at Freddy's#Ultimate Custom Night (2018). Daniel (talk) 00:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimate Custom Night

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This game zero critic reviews on Metacritic, and doesn't have enough articles substantially covering it to substitute the lack of critic reviews with WP:THREE or WP:SUSTAINED in any way. I simply do not think this game is notable enough on its own, and is likely better off merged into the series' article. NegativeMP1 01:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games and Utah. NegativeMP1 01:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Five Nights at Freddy's#Ultimate Custom Night (2018). Admittedly this is on the cusp of notability, with reviews in Kotaku (pre-AI), and Rock Paper Shotgun. But the PC Gamer one isn't significant coverage, and if they don't care enough to cover it, Wikipedia doesn't cover it either. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as above. The Kotaku and Rock Paper Shotgun articles are valid commentary even if the latter is not clear on its views. The PC Gamer article is a press release type article. If one more reliable source of significant coverage can be found, happy to make this a keep. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 20:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Five Nights at Freddy's#Ultimate Custom Night (2018). GreenishPickle! (🔔) 09:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge PC Gamer is just an announcement, the other two sources are pretty good. Five Nights at Freddy's#Ultimate Custom Night (2018) seems like a pretty good target. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 23:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Budhiram Tudu

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Poorly sourced BLP on Indian men's footballer which fails WP:GNG. All I found in my searches were passing mentions (2010, 2011, 2016, 2018, etc.) JTtheOG (talk) 00:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the list of West Bengal-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 12:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 15:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vicente Delfin

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Local politician that fails WP:NPOL. Also the source that was cited in the article is an incomplete external wiki entry. --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:54, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete does not pass WP:NPOL, searched to find other sources but was unable to locate any. Dr vulpes (Talk) 00:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete functionally unsourced, fails NPOL and GNG. SportingFlyer T·C 03:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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