Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dr. Wily

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to List of Mega Man characters#Dr. Wily. asilvering (talk) 00:48, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Dr. Wily

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

• How to contribute
• Introduction to deletion process
• Guide to deletion (glossary)
• Help, my article got nominated for deletion!

Dr. Wily (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This has been redirected because it relies heavily on primary sources and the nominator's WP:BEFORE found nothing but game reviews, but i am here to give this article a second chance, Wily is a pretty popular character, it has been a year and a half since it was redirected, so doing a WP:BEFORE should find some reliable sources as a keep, but if not, we can restore the merge and redirect. Toby2023 (talk) 00:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Restore Redirect and procedural close per WP:G4. This is the exact same article we looked at last time (zero alterations) and this is an abuse of process. It’s not AFD’s job to source hunt in this context, and the nominator didn’t even bother to suggest what these new sources are in asking for us to look at this again. If you want to work on it, do so in WP:USERSPACE by copy pasting the article into your WP:SANDBOX. When you have located new sources and then improved the article to a state where you think it meets WP:GNG undo the the redirect and make it live per WP:BOLD. If people disagree it may end back here at WP:AFD. At which point we will either confirm your opinion or reinstate the redirect. Don’t ask us to relook at anything that hasn’t changed since the last time we looked at it. Best.4meter4 (talk) 04:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Video games. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Request Could someone please link the discussion leading to this becoming a redirect, because I cannot see it? Daranios (talk) 11:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  To my knowledge it was BLAR'd after some scattered discussion, per reasons described in the edit summary and in this AfD's nom. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 12:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose procedural close, WP:G4 doesn't apply here, there hasn't been a previous AfD or other discussion, just someone BLARring the page. --Mika1h (talk) 15:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  My sentiments exactly. Rather, after the article was boldly redirected, any editor with an opposing opinion is justified to restore the article and start a more thorough discussion according to the WP:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. That said though, it would have been the burden of the nominator to conduct a WP:BEFORE search according to the deletion process, which should not be pushed onto the participants of the discussion. It's an unusual case here, because the nominator is also the one who restored the article first, but still. Daranios (talk) 19:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment I'd advise an analysis of the article's sourcing as well as of any potential sourcing, given that we're in this venue now, and especially so since the nom does not seem to have done a BEFORE. I'll take a look later myself and see if I find anything, but the current Reception is very much a lot of random listicle rankings and such that don't really say much, so I doubt most of it can really be considered Wikipedia:SIGCOV. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 15:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

My BEFORE wasn't very fruitful. I turned up two Destructoid sources- [1] This one is a merchandise announcement that briefly covers how Wily's groveling became iconic, but that's pretty minor and can be summed up in a sentence. [2] This one happens to cover Wily's actions, but after reading it, it becomes apparent it's just a very dramatically worded summary of Wily's actions throughout the Mega Man series.

A look through Books yielded nothing bar trivial mentions and official material, and Scholar yielded the same. [3][4] These two mention Wily, but I can't access them, so I have no idea to what degree their coverage of him is. If both of these turn out to have nothing, then there's nothing really else for this guy at all. If someone who has access can assess these sources, I'd appreciate it greatly. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Is the former accessible through this link? I've seen there very brief characterization as a "selfish scientist" with "aspirations of world domination", and a few sentences of plot summary there. Daranios (talk) 19:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Daranios Looks like they're one and the same, good find. It looks primarily to be about Mega Man the character and series, and less so Wily, who only gets mentioned a few times with very little substance. I doubt it'd be enough to help Wily. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 20:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Procedural Endorse I don't yet have an opinion on notability, but considering the article history, having an AFD discussion in lieu of a unilateral blank-and-redirect is reasonable. Walsh90210 (talk) 23:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Restore redirect I really wish people would just give the BLAR process a chance; there's no indication of notability, nothing new has been presented to indicate notability, and instead if for some reason the character achieves notability later on, reviving it will be that much harder. Additionally it should be on the AfD nominator to do the before, not people responding to it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:36, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  The articles I find uncontroversial to BLAR are something that is totally uncited or pure plot. If it even has a hint of citations, it should go to full AfD discussion. Many can interpret BLARs of fully cited articles as doing an end-run around an AfD, even if that is not intended. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  That's a fine personal standard, but there's no requirement for anyone to follow it. I've seen countless examples of articles that have citations but they're still nowhere near meeting the notability standards, and there was no reason to waste the community's time on them. Sergecross73 msg me 14:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep or merge to List of Mega Man characters#Dr. Wily. Taking the secondary sources together, it is possible to write a full, non-stubby article, therefore notability is established. We already have some commentary now, and that can be further expanded by using the sources. The fact that some of the sources are in list form in my view is not relevant, as long as they are reliable and have something non-trivial to say. I think it would be possible to do some more summarizing, so that it would also fit as an extended section at the list where it was previously redirected. But even if that were the way to go, I think there is more to merge here rather than simply redirecting, e.g. Dr. Wily's persistence and longevity within the franchise is a recurring theme in secondary sources like the IGN article. Daranios (talk) 11:42, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  What sources are you saying help the subject meet independent notability? Its not particularly clear to me after skimming the article or this conversation thus far. Sergecross73 msg me 17:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

The Destructoid articles (at least that one) "Wily has been noted as a popular character and villain, and has been compared to similar characters such as Doctor Eggman. He placed thirty-ninth in GamePro's "47 Most Diabolical Video-Game Villains of All Time" article, noting him to be "[c]learly a standout from the overcrowded school of mad scientists". Guinness World Records Gamer's Edition listed Dr. Wily as 27th in their list of top 50 Villains. In a "Reader's Choice" edition of GameSpot's "Top Ten Video Game Villains" article, Wily placed fifth, and while noted as not receiving enough votes to place above Doctor Eggman on the list, the character came close. Dr. Wily ranked sixth on IGN's Top 10 Video Game Characters who should die along with his nemesis, Dr. Light. IGN editor Colin Moriarty stated that while their rivalry may have been fascinating for over 20 years, they need to go so the core series may advance. GamesRadar staff described Dr. Wily as one of the best villains in video games, stating that "Mad scientists are pretty standard fare, but Dr. Wily brings a certain flair to his evil schemes." Computerworld named Wily as one of gaming's "baddest villains", praising his persistence despite his failure at the conclusion of each Mega Man game. GameDaily named him one of their favorite older characters in video games and one of the "Top 25 Evil Masterminds of All Time", ranking him second on their list while stating "using good robots to do bad things is sheer genius." They additionally cited his rivalry with Mega Man as one of the ten greatest in video games, describing it as one "still going strong to this day." In a later article, they listed the "evil mastermind" as one of their top 25 video game archetypes, using Wily as an example. IGN listed him as the 13th Best Video Game Villain, calling him one of the most "hopelessly persistent" video game villains." Daranios (talk) 19:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

That all looks like pretty shallow listicle content. It supports your merge stance - you could write a minor list entry at the character list article - but I'm not really seeing the sourcing to prove notability or a keep stance... Sergecross73 msg me 20:01, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

To boot too Guinness and reader polls should not on the surface be considered reliable per se, as they are both drawing their results from anonymous internet users. It's no better than citing internet comments or reader reviews.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Merge. There are some sources I found ([5], [6]), but even with that first one, it feels more like Mega Man 2 reception. It's not unworkable for a Wily article, but it's not a strong piece of foundation either. If ever Wily gets an article, it will be after some deep, deep research. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 00:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per my comments above. There's enough to write a small entry in the character list, but not enough to support a full-article. There's not enough significant coverage for its own article. Sergecross73 msg me 16:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

References

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.