Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cossack motorcycle
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Satra. Spartaz Humbug! 03:39, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Cossack motorcycle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Merge with Satra. "Cossack motorcycle" is a made-up term to describe Russian motorcycles which is propagated by the web site http://www.cossackmotorcycles.com, but "Cossack motorcycle" is not a category recognized by anyone else. The most notable usage of the term is actually by the Seattle Cossacks Motorcycle Stunt & Drill Team, who ride vintage Harley-Davidsons, not Russian motorcycles. Possibly "Cossack" is British slang for a Russian motorcycle, but I can't verify it, and I'm not sure that justifies the article's existence. Dbratland (talk) 02:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC) --Dbratland (talk) 23:37, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. -- N/A0 04:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
DELETE for the same reasons as the nominator. Dnepr, IMZ-Ural, IZH and others are all distinct brands and are covered on Wikipedia. This article is redundant.--Biker Biker (talk) 06:31, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment They were sold in England and Australia with "Cossack" badges on the tanks in the early seventies. I saw a number of them in South Australia at the time, and knew some of the dissatisfied owners. No doubt insignificant in the USA, and probably beyond the memory of younger Australian riders. Marketing rather than a distinct brand. Don't see how it could be "advertising" as they are no longer available under this name.Seasalt (talk) 08:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- What is being advertised is the web site, www.cossackmotorcycles.com, which is owned by www.f2motorcycles.ltd.uk who happen to be in the business of selling parts for Russian motorcycles. It is subtle advertising, but advertising none the less. I'm still not clear on whether this article needs to meet the criteria for a company, a brand, or a category of motorcycles. And if the topic is Russian motorcycles then a new article on that topic should be created. Also it seems a little demeaning to both the Cossack and Russian peoples to use their names this way, particularly when the term 'Cossack motorcycle' is so lacking in strong sources. --Dbratland (talk) 19:25, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Whatever people outside of the UK think of the idea these motorcycles were marketed and sold as cossack motorcycles. And the term gives over 4000 hits on google including this leaflet http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COSSACK-Motorcycle-Poster/Pamphlet- -1976-Price-List_W0QQitemZ180472969066QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20100316?IMSfp=TL100316133001r507 perhaps the advertising could be toned down but if this article was to be deleted then we would still need to explain on each of the articles about motorcycles sold under this name that they are sometimes called cossack motorcycles so the term would not dissapear from wikipedia. MilborneOne (talk) 19:52, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- So if this is about the brand, then a merge with Satra might make sense, although I would be happy to trade 100,000 Google hits for just one (1) WP:RS that says Satra or Cossack passes the bar for WP:COMPANY, ie., it "is notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources." --Dbratland (talk) 21:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That seems a reasonable idea Dbratland I would withdraw my keep and give support to a re-direct/merge to Satra. MilborneOne (talk) 21:55, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Agree. This document explains more about the SATRA link and the specific models which were imported. --Biker Biker (talk) 22:03, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Agree. Seasalt (talk) 22:58, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, but Satra could probably use some better sources. It looks like self-published original research to me, plus some scans of posters and ads. --Dbratland (talk) 23:37, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That seems a reasonable idea Dbratland I would withdraw my keep and give support to a re-direct/merge to Satra. MilborneOne (talk) 21:55, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- So if this is about the brand, then a merge with Satra might make sense, although I would be happy to trade 100,000 Google hits for just one (1) WP:RS that says Satra or Cossack passes the bar for WP:COMPANY, ie., it "is notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources." --Dbratland (talk) 21:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Whatever people outside of the UK think of the idea these motorcycles were marketed and sold as cossack motorcycles. And the term gives over 4000 hits on google including this leaflet http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COSSACK-Motorcycle-Poster/Pamphlet- -1976-Price-List_W0QQitemZ180472969066QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20100316?IMSfp=TL100316133001r507 perhaps the advertising could be toned down but if this article was to be deleted then we would still need to explain on each of the articles about motorcycles sold under this name that they are sometimes called cossack motorcycles so the term would not dissapear from wikipedia. MilborneOne (talk) 19:52, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep a quick read on web and it looks like a genuine tradename for a number of soviet motorcycles sold in the United Kingdom. It would seem to be a reasonable thing for an owner or somebody interested in one of the bikes to use cossack motorcycle as a search term. It cant be re-directed as it appears to cover more than one imported type. Quick search gives 11,000 ghits.MilborneOne (talk) 20:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I know this is original research, but as someone who was riding motor-cycles in the UK in the 1970s I remember the Cossack 650 well. It was particularly noted for having a reverse gear (useful as most of them had sidecars). Here's a source confirming existence. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:23, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Further comment. According to this the 650 was a rebadged Dnepr, so this should probably be redirected or, if other makes were badged as Cossacks, converted to a disambiguation page. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:50, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm still not clear on what we have, specifically, that meets the criteria Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). --Dbratland (talk) 14:22, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: looks like thinly veiled advertising for cossackmotorcycles.com. -- Brianhe (talk) 03:03, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge and redirect to Satra - simply rebadged Satra's, with Satra itself a Soviet-era middle company which globally distributed and marketed Soviet-made products. It existed as a UK brand marketing exercise, something which is quite common in the global motorcycle industry. The existing article is poor but contains some useful stuff to merge into the Satra article, which would improve it. From the Satra article, the point could easily be made that it bought/distributed and rebranded other Soviet manufacturers products (which it poorly does at present). Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 13:38, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 00:33, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply] - The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.