Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Che tempo che fa

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is that the subject passes the relevant notability criteria. Sources not being available in English is not a valid rationale for deletion, as per WP:GNG. – filelakeshoe (t / c)  22:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Che tempo che fa

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Unreferenced article that fails to credibly assert notability of the subject. Despite existing for 8 years, no effort has ever been made to establish notability. AussieLegend (✉) 04:17, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The article may be unreferenced, but in my estimation it clearly asserts notability. According to the article, the show has been airing in prime time for the past fourteen years, and in its last edition the show made an average prime-time share of 15%, with an audience of 3,500,000 people. That's pretty credible to me. What no one has done for the past 8 years is find references, but that's no reason to delete an article. Unfortunately all of the references that I can find appear to be in Italian so I can't easily tell what they say, but there appear to be a ton of them when I look through the WP:BEFORE. In my opinion sufficient reliable sources WP:NEXIST to sail through both WP:TVSHOW and WP:GNG. CThomas³ (talk) 04:48, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A ton of references on its own doesn't establish notability. I had the same problem that you did. I couldn't confirm that even one of them established notability and the claim that you quoted is completely unsourced so it really means nothing. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:51, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Mark the train^Discuss 06:53, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Mark the train^Discuss 06:53, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You said credibly assert, which is not the same thing as establishing via references. The claim is very credible, but it is not backed up by references (that you or I can read, at any rate). Just because the references aren't in English doesn't mean they don't exist, and just because no one has added any doesn't mean they don't exist either. If someone who reads Italian can verify that the thousands of Google hits are all junk, that's one thing, but personally I am not comfortable saying that given the sheer volume of them. You argue that the topic must be non-notable because it has sat idle for eight years. One could just as easily argue that the claims are likely valid as they have stood unchallenged for eight years. I am not saying that they are, but I don't think our default position should be "when in doubt, delete." CThomas³ (talk) 22:06, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe the claim is credible if it can't be backed up by sources. --AussieLegend (✉) 14:04, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree with everything you have said, except for the part where you imply that because neither you nor I can read any of the potential references, they must not exist. In the essay you just linked, it clearly states that non-English sources are allowed. As non-Italian readers I don't believe we are qualified to judge the quality of sources available. And if that is the case, the default position must be keep, in my opinion. CThomas³ (talk) 15:10, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

National programs are assumed to be notable per WP:NTV. As long as we can verify this airs on a regional or national network, we can skip the whole significant coverage in multiple reliable sources excercise for this topic. ~Kvng (talk) 23:57, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Wikipedia is built on verifiability, and without references, the article cannot be verified.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:50, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Are you saying you verified that the Italian-language references aren't appropriate? Or are you merely commenting on the unreferenced state of the article? If it is the latter, please see WP:NEXIST. If you can read Italian, it would be most appreciated if you could let the rest of us know what some of the references actually say. CThomas³ (talk) 03:51, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I can understand the (Google translated) Italian sources enough to understand that this is not a local program and so meets WP:NTV. ~Kvng (talk) 15:12, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you can understand them, can you add references to the article? --AussieLegend (✉) 20:19, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Are you requesting cleanup or are you questioning whether this is actually a national program? ~Kvng (talk) 14:42, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, I wasn't able to verify the sources so the claims in the article don't seem valid, which is why I nominated. I still can't verify the claims as the article stands. If I am able to verify the claims, which will only be possible if the article is referenced, then I can withdraw the nomination. --AussieLegend (✉) 16:08, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do you believe it is possible that this is not actually an established program on Italian TV? I put some search links on the talk page. It didn't take too many clicks for me to be convinced that WP:NTV is met. The article does not need to cite evidence of notability to merit a keep, evidence just has to be available. Or like Cthomas3 said, WP:NEXIST. ~Kvng (talk) 23:51, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the number of hoax program articles that I've seen in the past 12 years editing TV articles, it would not surprise me at all if the claims in this article were outrageous. That's why sources are needed. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:44, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I added a source in english to the article; is quite a popular talk show, which gives space to lots of important people both from Italy and abroad.--Pampuco (talk) 17:27, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.