User talk:Merangs/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Merangs. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

User:Nihil novi

This guy keeps trying to alter the page of Poles to his own view. I reverted it back to your edit. Can you make sure he stops his disruptive editing? - 2600:1001:B115:C249:8AEB:C059:37F9:130F (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:27, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Poland

Thanks for the kind words. Was a pleasure to work on the Poland article. Small remark vis-à-vis your clarification on satellite state. Although under external influence to some unscpecified degree, satellite sates are formally independent by definition. Please consider the corresponding English wikipedia article. Other than that, please keep up the good work on Poland-related articles! Prêt-à-Porter (talk) 21:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Incorrect Revisions

I believe you incorrectly reversed edits I made on the Polish monarchy. The country officially became a monarchy and Jesus was crowned king:

http://freethinker.co.uk/2016/11/20/poland-becomes-a-monarchy-with-jesus-christ-as-king/comment-page-1/ http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2016/november/this-thanksgiving-most-americans-will-pray-but-refuse-to-do-this http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/11/22/polish-bishops-president-proclaim-jesus-christ-king-poland/

Hi, you put that the first king and last of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth had the same name. That is why I keep on fixing it. -JazzBandDrummer — Preceding unsigned comment added by JazzBandDrummer (talk • contribs) 12:53, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Blondbrain (talk) 12:04, 16 December 2016 (UTC)blondbrain

Oliszydlowski, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi Oliszydlowski! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia.
Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Osarius (I'm a Teahouse host)

Visit the Teahouse

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User:Fram

Could you please check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Fram http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Achinger_coat_of_arms

--Sobiepan (talk) 16:06, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your Poland-related contributions

Hello and welcome Merangs/Archive 1! Thank you for your contributions related to Poland. You may be interested in visiting Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland, joining the project, joining our discussions and sharing your creations with our community.

--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:52, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK for A Polish Nobleman

On 22 July 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article A Polish Nobleman, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that scholars are not sure who is portrayed in Rembrandt's painting A Polish Nobleman (pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/A Polish Nobleman. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 12:02, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Mieczysław Gocuł

Hi! It seems you recently created an unreferenced biography of a living person: Mieczysław Gocuł. The community has decided that all new biographies of living persons must contain a reliable source that supports at least one statement made about the person in the article as per our verifiability policy. Please add references as soon as possible. Thanks! --LaraBot (talk) 00:12, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

		The Polish Barnstar of National Merit, 2nd Class
		For your continued edits to Poland-related articles in the past few months, I, Piotrus, award you this The Polish Barnstar of National Merit, 2nd class, on behalf of WikiProject Poland. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus\| reply here} 15:00, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
		_{this WikiAward was given to Oliszydlowski by _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus\| reply here} on 15:00, 2 November 2013 (UTC)}

Ivory-billed Woodpecker

Answered on Nick Levine's talk page.

Thank you

Many thanks for the correction of my terrible error in the National Independence Day. --Rewa (talk) 16:41, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Help

Hello. I noticed you created the collage for Polish people and I was wondering if you tell me where you created it. I also want to make one that contains 40 people. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 19:20, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

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Central Europe

I have made recently a countless number of edits on Central Europe, the main article. Please could you go to East Central Europe and integrate it into the Central Europe article. That makes more sense and less chaos--Fənɛ́tɪks.fərɛvər (talk) 13:21, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

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WikiProject Poland Newsletter • January 2014 • Issue II

WikiProject Poland Newsletter • January 2014 • Issue II
For our freedom and yours

Welcome to the second issue of WikiProject Poland newsletter, the Monitor (named after the first Polish newspaper).

Our Project has been operational since 1 June, 2005, and also serves as the Poland-related Wikipedia notice board. I highly recommend watchlisting the Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland page, so you can be aware of the ongoing discussions. We hope you will join us in them, if you haven't done so already! Unlike many other WikiProjects, we are quite active; we get close to a hundred discussion threads each year and we do a pretty good job at answering all issues raised. Last year we were featured in the Signpost, and our interviewer was amazed at our activity. In the end, however, even as active as we are, we are just a tiny group - you can easily become one of our core members!

In addition to a lively encyclopedic, Poland-related, English-language discussion forum, we have numerous useful tools that can be of use to you - and that you could help us maintain and develop:

we have an active assessment department. As of now, our project has tagged almost 83,000 pages as Poland-related - that's an improvement of over 3,000 new pages since the last newsletter. Out of which 30 still need a quality assessment, and 2,000, importance assessment. We have done a lot to clear the backlog here (3 years ago those numbers were 1,500 and 20,000, respectively). Can you help assess a few pages?
- assessing articles is as easy as filling in the class= and importance= parameters on the talk page in the {{WPPOLAND|class=|importance=}} template. See here for a how-to guide.
once an article has an assessment template, it will appear in our article alerts and news feed, which provides information on which Poland-related articles are considered for deletion, move, or are undergoing a Good or Featured review. Watchlisting that feed, in addition to watchlisting our project's main page, is a good way to make sure you stay up to date on most Poland-related discussions.
you can also see detailed deletion discussions at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Poland (which is a good place to watchlist if you just want to stay up to date on possible deletions of Poland-related content)
we have also begun B-class quality reviews on our talk page, and if our activity increases, hopefully we will be able to institute our own A-class quality reviews. As of now, we have about 500 C-class articles in need of a B-class review. If you'd like to help with them, instructions for doing B-class reviews are to be found in point 10 of our assessment FAQ. In addition to this automated list, you are also encouraged to help review articles from our B-class reviews requested list found here.
also, those articles will be included in our cleanup listing, which allows us to see which top-importance articles are in need for attention, and so on. We have tens of thousands articles in need of cleanup there, so if you ever need something to do, just look at this gigantic list. (I am currently reviewing the articles tagged with notability, either proving them notable or nominating for deletion; there are still several dozens left if you want to help!).
did you know that newly created Poland-related articles are listed here. They need to be reviewed, often cleaned-up, occasionally nominated for deletion, and their creators may need to be welcomed and invited to our project if they show promise as new authors of Poland-related content.
we are maintaining a Portal:Poland
automated Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland/Popular pages lists the most popular Poland-related pages from the previous month(s)
Breaking news: we are looking for a Wikipedian in Residence for the New York City area. See Wikipedia:GLAM/Józef Piłsudski Institute of America for details.

This is not all; on our page you can find a list of useful templates (including userboxes), awards and other tools!

With all that said, how about you join our discussions at WT:POLAND? Surely, there must be something you could help others with, or perhaps you are in need of assistance yourself?

It took me three years to finish this issue. Feel free to help out getting the next one before 2017 by being more active in WikiProject management :)

You have received this newsletter because you are listed as a member at WikiProject Poland.
Please remove yourself from the mailing list to prevent receiving future mailings.
Newsletter prepared by _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} and sent by Technical 13 (talk) using the Mass message system.

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Kind regards, Afro-Eurasian (talk) 01:46, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

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Port of Szczecin

Thank you for a more colorful picture of Port of Szczecin in the article about Poland WikUzytkownik (talk) 18:18, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks for thanks

Thanks for your thanks in the article National Independence Day :) --Robsuper (talk) 09:40, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

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Featuring your work on Wikipedia's front page: DYKs

Thank you for your recent articles, including Hans Heinrich XV, which I read with interest. When you create an extensive and well referenced article, you may want to have it featured on Wikipedia's main page in the Did You Know section. Articles included there will be read by thousands of our viewers. To do so, add your article to the list at T:TDYK. Let me know if you need help, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:54, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

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DYK nomination of Hans Heinrich XV

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DYK nomination of Hans Heinrich XV revisited

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Oliszydlowski, issues still remain. Please address them as soon as possible, and post to the nomination page when you're done. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 04:46, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

It has been ten days without a response, and you have been quite active on Wikipedia in that period. Given the circumstances, I am marking the nomination for closure, but you may still be able to respond before someone actually closes it, which could happen within hours, or perhaps not for days. I hope you'll be able to give more attention to DYK nominations going forward. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:40, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

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Przemyśl

True, but one cannot get rid of words out of a song. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 03:09, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

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Karol Ferdynand Vasa

Please use WP:RM, few years ago we had a big discussion about naming of Polish aristocrats, let's avoid moves without discussion. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:12, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

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Poland article, Piast dynasty section

Hello, I made one change to the image selection in the Piast dynasty section of the Poland article, swapping out the image of Bolesław the Brave for that of Casimir III the Great. I don't mean any disrespect since I know you added the image of Bolesław the Brave. Though, perhaps we should highlight the reign of Casimir III the Great, because of his contributions to strengthening the country. Please talk a look at the section and get a feel for the option. If you don't think this is a good idea we can change the selection back. --E-960 (talk) 16:57, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

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Dmitry Pozharsky edit

Could you please explain the rationale behind this redaction of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to simply Polish? I've reverted it as I believe you must have had a good reason to change historically verifiable content, but omitted to provide an edit summary as to why this was important to the lead.

If you wish to change it again, please provide a legitimate policy and guideline explanation. Thank you. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:49, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for providing your valid reason for the use of 'Polish' so promptly! Now I comprehend that this is a matter of historical accuracy per 'facts on the ground'. Much appreciated. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:11, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Re: Sigismund II August

Hi Oliszydlowski! and thanks for your kind words; i'm concentrated to finish, created or expanded all the possible articles about the Piast dynasty from Polish to English (some say I'm not very good doing this...but I do my best!) so when I finished I checked your request. Again, thanks a lot! Aldebaran69 (talk) 20:10, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

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Featuring your work on Wikipedia's front page: DYKs

Thank you for your recent articles, including Royal Guards (Poland), which I read with interest. When you create an extensive and well referenced article, you may want to have it featured on Wikipedia's main page in the Did You Know section. Articles included there will be read by thousands of our viewers. To do so, add your article to the list at T:TDYK. Let me know if you need help, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Formatting references

You can easily format Google Books through http://reftag.appspot.com/ . Other refs can be nicely formatted through User:Salix alba/Citoid.js script. Cheers, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Apologies for intruding here, Oliszydlowski, but does Citoid.js interfere with using reFill, Webreflinks, and Checklinks, Piotrus? As a heads up, Oliszydlowski, I find these to be invaluable tools for cleaning up references and archiving them. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:29, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

@Iryna Harpy: It does not, as far as I can tell. reFill seems to produce the least well formatted entries, and dispenser tool have the tendency to go offline whenever he gets into another spat with WMF or when his home server goes down, so I stopped relying on them. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:26, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt response, Piotrus. I've found that a lot of the glitches have been rectified since Wikipedia's Tools lab was abandoned recently. I take it with a grain of salt and my knowledge of the relevant templates in order to fill in the blanks for script-language, etc., manually where it's required. I'm about to add the script to my own js, so your experience is accepted with gratitude! Incidentally, I haven't forgotten about the collaborative effort you were looking for regarding the Ukrainian "Orange revolution" sociological study. Sadly, Ukrainian Wikipedia is literally months and months behind on articles not involving current affairs (even those are mainly neglected). There are so many articles requiring an administrator's release of content changes to anything outside of any given area going back to last year that it seems as if you can hear the tumbleweeds blowing through... I'm assuming that you still wish to explore this field, but probably prefer to expand the extent of the study(!!). Please get back to me on the subject at hand at a more opportune date. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:51, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

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Dealing with vandalism

In the future, you should post to Wikipedia:Requests for protection and request a Wikipedia:Semiprotection against IP vandalism. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Oliszydlowski is flagrantly misrepresenting what happens. I DID provide the full reference, citing the authoritative book published by the US academic press. Even after I provided the reference on his talk page (which can also be found in the Wikipedia article on Rosa Raisa'se), Oliszydlowski again refused to respect the fact about this soprano. I used my IP address because I didn't have the Wikipedia account at that time. Now I have created it to report his abuse of Rosa Raisa's page. Oliszydlowski needs to provide his documented sources for his claims. I have already provided mine on his talk page. Resorting to misleading words such as "vandalism" is unethical, especially when lying that I didn't provide any source. See Oliszydlowski's talk page and the full citation of the book about Raisa I provided earlier today. Shameful! I will report this unethical and untruthful accusation as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiuserthea (talk • contribs) 02:11, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

A discussion of interest

You should join Talk:Rosa Raisa ASAP; it looks like you are conceding this discussion through lack of activity. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

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Oliszydlowski

Oliszydlowski, stop to fix article about Lithuanian painter Vladislovas Neverovičius (Władysław Niewiarowicz). I'm historian from Lithuania, a lot of years worked in Lithuanian and Polish archives and know about this person everything. So, stop to create Polish nationalism in Wikipedia.

[Stanislovas01]

I did not edit the article Vladislovas Neverovičius only Walenty Wańkowicz. Such article does not exist on Wikipedia. Secondly Walenty Wańkowicz was a Polish painter of Lithuanian and Belarusian origin. Furthermore, articles in other languages, especially Polish, German and Russian, refer to Polish and Belarusian ancestry.

Oliszydlowski 10:56 27 June 2015 (UTC)

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University of Warsaw

Thank you for your cleanup. Do you think some of the redlinks to long-gone rectors can be removed? I think it's very unlikely many will ever have a Wiki article. Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:22, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

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You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:01, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

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Prośba o znalezienie źródeł

Witam. Czy móglbyś zrobić jakieś wiarygodne przypisy (i tym smaym przywrócić) do zdania we wstępie o Polsce, które usunął użytkownik B.Lameira? Sam nie jestem na tyle dobrze zaznajomiony z zasadami cytowania na anglojęzycznej wiki aby w tak waznym temacie jak "Polska" dodawać odpowiednio podpisane przypisy. Daj znać. Pozdrawiam NeonFor (talk) 00:40, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

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Lublin vs. Lwów

Please note that Lwów is a Polish city which is bigger than Lublin, yet not in Poland. Certainly it is east of the Vistula river. Of course, it is not in Poland anymore. As the definition of a Polish / German / Ukrainian city etc. is not quite clear, I suggest more neutral wording.

Best wishes, Loxley (talk) 20:03, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

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Czartoryski et al.

Dear Oli, thank you for your nice message. It occurs to me that we might have common roots in the 18th-century! Good to make your acquaintance. The link would be through Theodore de Korwin Szymanowski. Good wishes, --Po Kadzieli (talk) 10:41, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Well, Marianna Szydłowska, elder daughter of Teodor, married Dyzma Szymanowski around 1750, which is how the name Teodor keeps repeating in that Szymanowski line and furthermore, Teodor Korwin Szymanowski (1846-1901) took up (directly or not) Czartoryski's idea of a unified Europe. I am a direct descendant of TKS, so if you are connected to Teodor Szydłowski, see Polish Wiki, then QED. Warmest wishes, --Po Kadzieli (talk) 11:11, 6 August 2016 (UTC) and --Po Kadzieli (talk) 15:38, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Przemysł II

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Przemysł II you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Emir of Wikipedia -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 14:40, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Przemysł II

The article Przemysł II you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Przemysł II for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Example -- Example (talk) 09:20, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Przemysł II/GA1

Oliszydlowski, you cannot do a GA review an article where you were the one who nominated it to be a GA in the first place. Only an independent reviewer—one who neither nominated the article nor worked on it—is allowed to start a review.

I will be arranging to have your review page deleted. It may take a while for a valid reviewer to come along, so please be patient. (The reviewer who showed up at the end of August was, unfortunately, a reviewer who was brand new to GA yet opened several reviews at once, and this was one that had to be put back into the pool of unreviewed nominations.) In the meantime, you may wish to read the GA nomination information page, which explains how the process works, and also the GA criteria page, if you haven't already. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:28, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry I wasn't sure if I can review an article that I have nominated. Thank you for reminding me. Best Regards Oliszydlowski 17:31, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

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Europe 10,000 Challenge invite

Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Olsztyn

Hello Oliszydlowski, please have a look at this article, I think the edit of the IP from 8 November 2016 was wrong, but I'm not really sure. Regards--Buchbibliothek (talk) 20:36, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

-All done. The edit by the IP was not necessarily wrong as Prussia did exist until the end of World War II, but after the creation of the German Empire in 1871 it was simply referred to as a 'historic state'. Best Regards Oliszydlowski 10:53, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

St. Mary's Basilica

Good find, I was trying to find a nice high-res image to match the Poznań Ratusz picture, but could not locate it in the past, so the section was stuck with the one that had the weird filter colors. --E-960 (talk) 12:12, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

-All good! :) It took me a while to find an appropriate image for the section. Best Regards. - Oli Szydlowski, 22:15, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Oliszydlowski. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

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Return Poland article to Semi-protected status

Hello, thanks for keeping an eye on the unregistered edits. I set up a request to return the page to Semi-protected status here [3]. If you are able, it might be a good idea for a second editor to add a short note which confirms the recent disruptions from anno IPs. --E-960 (talk) 11:06, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Sigismund III Vasa

Hello! If you'd like to keep making recent changes to that article, please use the article's talk page, where I have started a discussion about it. Thanks! SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:20, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Putting imaginary portraits at the top of articles

Why should the top portrait in a biographical article of a historical person be one that does not accurately portray the person in question when actual accurate portraits are also available? It is the first picture a visitor sees when they visit an article, so that first picture should be as accurate a reflection of the actual appearance of a person as possible. Bacciarelli lived hundreds of years after these people died. At most he is basing his paintings off of previous paintings or literary descriptions, whereas those previous paintings are based off of what the person actually looked like. If you put Bacciarelli's paintings at the top of these articles you are deceiving visitors. Omegastar (talk) 19:23, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

I understand what your saying, and I couldn't agree more, however, the images that you have put were of low quality and there are plenty of others dating from the times of the person. Also, just because Bacciarelli lived a hundred years later doesn't mean that his portrayals are incorrect or unreliable. I'd suggest another image, which is of high quality and is not deceiving visitors. - Oliszydlowski 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Re: Łódź

Yes, it is true that those alternate spellings and pronunciations are plausible in English, but I've seen other articles where only the original-language spelling and pronunciation is allowed, i.e. Paris and even Warsaw. Maybe this is only the case for capital cities. 110.142.225.47 (talk) 11:03, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

File:Idioma ruso.PNG

Hello, I would appreciate your input regarding a discussion on the accuracy of this map [4] which show the entire eastern Poland as containing a significant Russian speaking minority. --E-960 (talk) 22:59, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Reference errors on 12 February

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

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Your GA nomination of Przemysł II

The article Przemysł II you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Przemysł II for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Oliszydlowski -- Oliszydlowski (talk) 17:41, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Bad links fixed by Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:41, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Przemys? II

The article Przemys? II you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Przemys? II for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of North8000 -- North8000 (talk) 13:41, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Actually, the nomination is now under review; the bot apparently can't handle that "ł" character properly. The review is at Talk:Przemysł II/GA1; please stop by there; the reviewer has asked whether anyone is ready to address any issues that might come up as part of the review. Best of luck, and sorry for the very long wait. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:01, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Poor grammar

I have met several editors, who corrected my poor English but only one who reverted my edits. What about writing better than me? Xx236 (talk) 06:43, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

I started a GA review of Przemysł II

I started a GA review of Przemysł II. For some reason the bot did not notify you. I noticed that you nominated it and also did substantial work on it. Most articles require some involvement of somebody on behalf of the article in order to pass. I put a question there as to whether or not there is such a person at this article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:48, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

This will need someone who is involved on behalf of the article to pass. Would that be you? Sincerely North8000 (talk) 14:20, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

This will need someone who is involved on behalf of the article to pass. Would that be you? Sincerely North8000 (talk) 11:57, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Oliszydlowski, I realize that after waiting for over six months, this review may not have come at an ideal time for you, but you have recently been quite active editing on Wikipedia. It is very important for you to respond to this review at Talk:Przemysł II/GA1 right away—there are issues that need to be addressed, and you need to say whether you will be able to do this. If not, the reviewer will have no choice but to close the review as unsuccessful; the typical wait time is seven days, so you're already being given extra time. It would be a great shame if this were to close because you didn't think it was important to reply promptly: it is very important for you to do so. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:30, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for my late reply. I appreciate to what you're doing with the article. I am happy to help with the nomination, however, my studies recently overwhelmed me. I will get to work ASAP. Best Regards :) Oliszydlowski 08:24, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Great! Please go to / see the GA review at the article. There are about 11 open issues. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:38, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

I note that you fixed most of them. Just a few more to go North8000 (talk) 23:41, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Just one to go, but since it is repeated 20-30 times it's an important one. North8000 (talk) 13:58, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

To flesh out and summarize the one remaining open issue at the Przemysł II GA review, "KDW" is used 66 times as a reference, but it is listed only as "KDW" for each cite, with no explanation of what it is, no listing as such in the bibliography, or no linkage to any listing in the bibliography. So I think that this is a significant but easily fixed issue.North8000 (talk) 13:47, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Brudnopis

Witam!

Mam nadzieję, że mogę napisać do Pana po polsku?! Obiecałam Łukaszowi Jakóbiakowi, że spróbuję „wstawić” jego stronę na angielską Wikipedię, ale nie radzę sobie z linkami! :( Można je jakoś łatwiej przerobić, bo dla mnie, tutaj osoby początkującej, to czarna magia! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Milagros_aal/sandbox Z góry dziękuję za jakiekolwiek rady, z pozdrowieniami, Milagros aal (talk) 23:29, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Oczywiście :) Spróbuję w wolnym czasie nieco uzupełnić artykuł. Jeśli ma Pani jakieś pytania bądź też wątpliwości to proszę śmiało napisać. Oliszydlowski 20:20, 2 marca 2017-ego (UTC)

Bardzo dziękuję, udało mi się coś zrobić z linkami, ale nie wiem, czy dobrze? Chciałam już ją przenieść, ale lepiej będzie, jak doświadczony Wikipedysta z wyjątkowym angielskim zerknie, bo przy moim szkolnym angielskim obawiam się, że coś tam będzie trzeba poprawić! :/ Z pozdrowieniami, Milagros aal (talk) 17:37, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Milagros_aal/sandbox

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Removal of information regarding Poland and the Russian Empire

Why are you removing information from infoboxes about the Congress Poland being a part of the Russian Empire, specifically on Yisrael Kristal and Harry Warner. When reverting me you also said that the Congress of Poland was in a personal union with the Russian Empire, despite the fact that the union ended around 1831-1832, and the Congress Poland became an official part of the Empire in 1867. I also saw that in these edits [5], [6], [7], dating back to October 2016, you've removed information about the region being a part of the Russian Empire from the article itself. --2607:FEA8:559F:FD61:C9E8:749D:6483:C35A (talk) 03:52, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Further discussion about this issue was moved to my talk page. --2607:FEA8:559F:FD61:49FA:E98E:A30A:2FA1 (talk) 15:51, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

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Kraków

Sure, I've deleted the ones that weren't already hidden. Hut 8.5 17:43, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

re: Constant vandalism

Sadly, I am not an admin, so all I can do for now is offer advice: I can direct you to WP:VIP, as well as WP:AN where you can ask for help, and where admins with the power to block and protect can step in. Both Kraków and Warsaw seems to have been semi-protected for now already. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:24, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

About your signature...

...would you be willing to change your preferences concerning time zone to "wiki-default"? The fact that you seem to use local time kind of messes up pages like WP:RFP because your timestamp is out of time regarding the rest of the page. Cheers and happy editing. Lectonar (talk)

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MfD nomination of Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/ 5.172.255.139

Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/ 5.172.255.139, a page which you created or substantially contributed to (or which is in your userspace), has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/ 5.172.255.139 and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/ 5.172.255.139 during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. – Train2104 (t • c) 20:37, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Domejko

Dear Oliszydlowski!

Is there any wikipedia rule that states that any side of disputable fact should be removed just because there're less sources? Thank you

Discussion on Domeyko page is Original Research and contributors own opinion, not based on sources. While the only scientific paper on the subject you removed: http://bon.edu.pl/media/book/pdf/Od_litwinskosci-SKS.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Korwinski (talk • contribs) Korwinski (talk) 01:12, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on sources and discussion. Any new sources are not necessary as the discussion overpowers them. The issue has been already settled. Also, in szlachta, only a few of the highest distinguished Cossacks had the title of a nobleman. It is disputed whether Chmielnicki had it. I'd suggest we'd refrain from including the Zaporozhian Host in the lead. Oliszydlowski, 13:04, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid no. "...consensus is not based on votes. This is just an example, and does not constitute permanent resolution. If, in a discussion, 10 editors support one side, and 7 support another, this does not mean the side with 10 automatically wins..." Just to be clear, its a direct quote Wikipedia:Content removal.

And that statement about "sources not necessary" is about anything but not Wikipedia. All of my sources^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5] qualify for Wikipedia:Reliable sources, and currently you haven't provided a single solid reason/rule why they should be removed.

Actually that is a myth and I'll have to revert that. Between Chmielnicki Uprising and liquidation of Zaporozian host large number of szlachta moved to Malorossia and with intermarriages, and Lithuanian Statute as a legal basis created Cossack szlachta. In Malorossia Cossacks tended to identify as both cossacks and szlachta making them the same^[6]. In numbers they made up 10-15% of total population. Actually one the reasons why Hetmanate was abolished was a 1764 request to empress Catherine the Great to reform Zaporozhian Host into szlachta republic^[7]. And here's just some numbers to make sure they are not "only a few of the highest distinguished Cossacks that had the title of a nobleman". In Treaty of Zboriv there's somewhere between 1500 and 2500 of szlachta men were written into new cossack registry^[8]. About 380 cossack families received royal nobilitation after Uprising^[9]. Korwinski (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:32, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

^ Od „litwińskości” ku „krajowości”. Polityczno-kulturowe tradycje Kresów Wschodnich w XIX wieku
^ Игнатий Домейко
^ ИГНАТИЙ ДОМЕЙКО – «ГРАНДЕ ЭДУКАДОР»
^ Pobocza Europy : Białoruś
^ Soviet geography: review and translation January 1982
^ page 226
^ [1]
^ В.А. ЛИЗОГУБ ФОРМУВАННЯ СТАНОВИХ ПРАВ ШЛЯХТИ НА УКРАЇНСЬКИХ ЗЕМЛЯХ У ХVІ-XVIII СТ.
^ [2]

Yes well regardless of the sources, a discussion is still necessary in order to establish Domeyko's nationality or affiliation as you quoted. Yes, it doesn't mean the side with most votes automatically wins, but it's still necessary to discuss it. Now I noticed that you provide either Belarussian, Ukrainian or Russian sources for Domeyko. I'd suggest that maybe the sources will also be in other languages so they very and be more reliable. If you still wish to add "Belarusian" to the lead in the article about Domeyko, I suggest that you start a discussion on the talk page and other users will be glad to talk about it :) As for the Cossacks, thank you for explaining your point, but I still think that it should be mentioned in the body rather than the lead; and already is in the "Culture of Szlachta" section. Oliszydlowski, 17:57, 19 April 2017 (UTC).

Nationality has nothing to do with him being recognized as Belorussian geologist. His self-identification if thats what you mean was most likely litwin, not polish in modern understanding. Just to be clear on that. I'm not against discussion (thats why I haven't reverted it back yet), but I am against abuse and self-made rules. Out of 5 sources I provided 2 are in Polish, 2 in Russian and 1 in English. Please check them again. Sure, I will.

Just to be clear: Zaporozhian Host was official name of Cossack state in historiography known as Cossack Hetmanate. In that state legal system was based on Lithuanian Statute (which was primarily written for szlachta and its privileges) and szlachta was official large social class. Please do not confuse with Zaporozhian Sich or Zaporozhian Cossacks in general. Founders of that state were Registered Cossacks and szlachta, which symbiosis and intermarriages created social class known as Malorossian or Cossack szlachta. It was the same one as in Commonwealth. With the same education (Collegiums had very similar system with Jesuit/Bazylian academies and Latin language, as most of their founders and teachers (like Lazar Baranovych, founder of Chernihiv Collegium, who studied in Vilno and Kalisz academies) studied there first). With szlachta self-identification, clothes, coats of arms etc. Difference from szlachta in Commonwealth (apart from being part of Russian Empire) was mainly in language and religion. Cossack past was considered a transitional one and they viewed their ancestors as warriors that got their rights and privileges with blood and sword, the same way as polish szlachta did during Casimir the Great rule. Full or partial szlachta ancestry in most of Cossack Starshyna and clergy (two elites in Zaporozhian Host) and Lithuanian Statute legitimised that claim. Korwinski (talk) 22:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Relatives of Poles

Hello. You removed North Slavs here on the basis of a preference for "closer" relatives rather than a group encompassing 300 million. The 300 figure is for all Slavic nations including South Slavs who form the opposite segment to the North Slav counterpart. Either way, the caption only says "related people", it doesn't ask for what the "closest relatives" are, and the idea of the branch group memebers (i.e. West Slav in this case) being closer is an arbitrary opinion. The term is not geographical because depending which natives of Poland we mean, it may be they are nearer Ukraine, Belarus or Russia (Kaliningrad) than Slovakia, and culturally people are closer to their neighbours than to distant members of the same ethnicity. The term is not ancestral - the branches (and individual ethnicities for that matter) are man-made and historiographical (often subjected to revisionism) rather than there being a true progenitor to Polish, Czech and Slovak nations the same way Arabic and Hebrew are called "Semitic" on the basis of Christian-Islamic-Jewish teaching promoting the idea of a young universe and various cultures descending directly from Shem, son of Noah following a relatively recent flood fantasy. Additionally, West Slavic Sorbs and South Slavic Serbs are genealogically closer than both are to their local Slavic neighbours. And finally, it doesn't matter how big a pan-ethnic or national group is or how far apart its members are across any continuum. Arabs and Han Chinese also both occupy vast territory across multiple borders and collapse into subgroups and local ethnicities or sometimes even modern-day tribes but as a group they are still related, and that is what the caption requires. --OJ (talk) 10:24, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Indeed that might be right, however, there are many Slavic ethnicities related to Poles. Taking into consideration the Polish language, culture, cuisine and other cultural traditions, Poles have a strong bond with Czechs and Slovaks more than with Russians and other Eastern Slavs. Hence the categorisation between West Slavs, East Slavs, and South Slavs. Secondly, taking Russian and Soviet sources is bias and somewhat unreliable due to many political and national reasons dating back to the Soviet Era. Let me remind you that although Poland is now a homogenic country, its citizens have different backgrounds due to the multicultural policies of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and earlier the Kingdom of Poland. Certain sources say that Poles descend from East Slavs, other that Poles came from Norway and Scandinavia and adopted local culture. So, therefore, it is truly uncertain where the Poles actually came from. Northern territories were inhabited by Prussians and Baltic Lithuanians. Various settler groups came from Germanic and Flanders regions. Some Poles, especially highlanders in Podhale, are descendants of settlers from Wallachia migrating north because of Ottoman occupation. Silesia was under Polish, Bohemian and Germanic influence. Eastern regions are more related to eastern Slavs. Finally still many people have Jewish origins. There are many sources for and against the argument, but because it is two sided, we have to stick to facts. Generally, speaking, without providing references, Poles are closely related to Czechs and Slovaks. It is obvious that Poles are from the Lechitic tribes which descend from Slavs, however, many sources state that Polish people are half-slavic and half-nordic, which can be easily observed in the huge variety of hair or eye colours and skin-tones. This can be also observed in parts of Lithuania, which is not Slavic. Also, West Slavs are Roman Catholic and were Catholic since the Baptism of Poland in 966. All other Slavs, except for Czechs and Slovaks, are Orthodox. That is also a major cultural difference. I think it is appropriate to only name the possible closest relatives (both cultural and ethnic) in the box then. Oliszydlowski, 20:40, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

No single "race" on this globe is pure, and mixing/assimilation has happened and continues to happen everywhere. Ethnicity is a question of self-declaration in every case and should never be taken as a true indication that all members of a nation are commonly descended (e.g. All Poles have exclusively Slavic ancestry - something claimed by nobody), likewise the "coming together" of multiple nations within a region (e.g. Nordic and Lithuanian people came to this land and mixed with these people) does not determine what constitutes an ethnicity. On that same note, there are Polish Jews just as there are Germanic and Ukrainian Jews. These people identify as Jews as should no more be considered Germans or Poles in their respective states than Sorbs should be considered German for living on the same land. It's not the language, citizenship and culture, it is the identity of the individual. Now I am not for a moment suggesting we use Soviet sources to promote a certain point and I said nothing of the nature. I only stated that Poles are universally recognised as a Slavic nation, and it makes no difference how similar other Slavic nations are culturally, physically, ideologically or linguistically. The first three are not dependent on relationship, but prolonged contact/settlement. The last item (linguistically) as history has shown us can only diverge so much before it is no longer considered "related" (e.g. Slavic and Romance nations are not given to be related but both languages are Indo-Euroean, etc.). As for the point you made, quote "Generally, speaking, without providing references, Poles are closely related to Czechs and Slovaks.". Without references, even this statement doesn't carry weight. Yes Catholicism is a major factor in this zone, but this element stretches to Ukraine and Belarus, particularly on lands that were in Poland's Second Republic. Either way, those locals are no longer identifying as Polish and this mysteriously makes them "East Slavs" and excluded from the Czech-Polish-Slovak club. But then again, if western Ukrainians were embraced and welcomed into the western segment then this would serve only to continually peddle an invented schism. When you think about it, just as Arabs are Arabic from west to east of the Arab World and subject to similar historical divisions, it is not even necessary for Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians and Russians to have separate ethnic identities. All of what we see today could have happened regardless of this: Nordic people could still have settled on present-day Polish land, an Orthodox-Catholic split could still have occurred as far back as the 10th century but modern-day commentators would struggle to ascribe "closer relationship" to their more desired groups. The idea that "Poles are Poles and Russians are Russians" facilitates this mindset because as long as this is the case, one never has to claim to be the other and is therefore free to choose his "closer" pan-ethnic affiliates based on selective properties. Croats and Slovenes are also mostly Catholic as are pockets of Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgarians (most notably Banat Bulgarians). I note that the Banat Bulgarians are not dependent on the existence of the distant Orthodox Bulgarians to survive as they are. In Bosnia where I am from, it is more Islamic than Christian and I am of mixed Islamic/Catholic background. FTR I am non-religious, and I do not believe we are on the eve of a "second divine coming" and the calling of a few thousand humans into the future promised land while Revelations theories proceed to govern this round Earth (sorry if you happen to be a devout Catholic, I don't wish to offend any pious reader of this remark). So this brings me to the last point: you said, "however, many sources state that Polish people are half-slavic and half-nordic, which can be easily observed in the huge variety of hair or eye colours and skin-tones". Focusing on the lined section, I say to you do NOT fall for that one. Firstly, half-Slavic is one thing but what is half-Nordic? The Nordic countries are themselves mixed, with Germanic people running from Scandinavia down to Austria/Switzerland and even farther south when counting natives of Northern Italy and longstanding communities in ex-Yugoslavia, and Romania (e.g. Romanian president Klaus Iohannis). Fins are unrelated to Swedes, but their affiliated Uralic people stretch to the far east. The general appearance of a nation settled for generations on a territory is governed by latitude with regards skin tone, and longitude on aspects of physiognomy. They say Romance people are darker than Germanic people. But Germanics tend to be north and Romance south if discussing geographical Europe. What about Slavs? Blue eyes and fairer hair is far more common in Poland and Russia than in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I'm blue-eyed but I have dark hair - my wife from Montenegro has green eyes and blonde hair. Our children all qualify for the "Nordic" appearance. We are on the latitude of Central Italy and Northern Spain. Here you get the blondes but also a larger portion of darker hair colours. In Macedonia and Bulgaria they are no different to Turks in Thrace. Farther south, Turks (Anatolia) are more similar to Greeks because Greek lands are all south. However, as a man who has travelled due to his connection to sport, I can tell you that even on the Greek-Turkish latitude there is blonde hair and blue eyes among locals, and you even get this slightly farther south in Syria and Lebanon, as well as Algeria and Morocco which brings us back to southern Spain. Variation does not spell "mixing". Chinese are just as mixed in their local appearances and there have also been the population mixes there too: but you won't find "Caucasian" appearance locals in the far east. Remember than in Siberia, over 90% is made up of Russians, Ukrainians and Germans to have settled in very recent centuries. Four our regions, I know Roma tend to be darker for reasons of more recent arrival from hotter territory but they too can appear light but that only brings us back to the original point which is that ethnicity is down to personal choice. I urge you in good faith not to embrace "skin tone and hair colour" as remotely essential factors. If you want to make life easier, say that Poles are Poles and that is that. Recorded history can speak for itself. --OJ (talk) 11:55, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Poles are Poles and that is that. I could't agree more. Oliszydlowski, 22:33, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Fashion and design

Hello, great work on the new and expanded sections of 'Literature' and 'Fashion and design'. Please do not take this recommendation in the wrong way, as it's only intend as a collaborative discussion — the new edits are a solid addition to the article, so no disrespect! In regards to Max Factor, perhaps we should focus images on things directly from Poland, so it's fine that the section contains a reference to the person who heralded from Poland, but with MF, his accomplishments and the company he created are part of the American scene, and to keep the article centered on Poland we should highlight items in Poland. Not sure if there are images of the Polish cosmetics manufacturers Inglot [8], but this is a company that has stores in 70 countries, and in places like NY, Dubai and Las Vegas. This is something that a consumer in the US might have come across and buys, but did not know it's a Polish company. --E-960 (talk) 06:30, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I understand what you mean. Currently there is no article about Inglot and there aren't any images concerning the company or its services. My initial intention was to name the corporation in the "Fashion and design" section, however, I was unable to find any related articles, which forced me to scrap the idea. I would've also been unable to add a certain number of links in the paragraph. With Max Factor, I understand the experience was American, however, it is notable to mention that he left Poland when he was over 30 years old and worked in Poland on many cosmetics and inventions, though the term "make-up" was coined after his arrival in the United States. Similarly, Joseph Conrad worked and spent most of his years in the UK, Marie Curie and Fryderyk Chopin in France and also Artur Rubinstein (mentioned in the Music section), who composed in America. I would keep his image and simply add to the caption that he worked in the US, until the article Inglot is created and images are uploaded. User:Oliszydlowski 16:57, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

I see your point, no worries. One suggestion perhaps on a side note, can we just crop the image to show MF's portrait, I'll admit, when I saw that pic, it scared the heck out of me! hehe…I'm sorry, silly comment, but that thing looks like Hellraiser… :D ! --E-960 (talk) 10:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree :) haha. Will do. I added a new picture of Max Factor from around 1923. I hope it won't get deleted off Wikimedia Commons. User:Oliszydlowski, 00:03, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Protection

Hello, Oli! This is to let you know that I have semi-protected your talk page because of the recent vandalism here. I declined your request for pre-emptive protection of Warsaw; we will have to wait and see if there is new vandalism before renewing that protection. --MelanieN (talk) 18:52, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Pytanie

Witam. Czy nie można zamknąć już jakoś tego tematu z położeniem geograficznym Polski? Raz na rok trafia się jakiś "oświecony" który usilnie próbuje to zmienić. Jesteś bardzo doświadczonym i zasłużonym wikipedystą, czy mógłbyś coś w tej sprawie zaradzić? Pozdrawiam -NeonFor (talk) 21:20, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Niestety dyskusja na ten temat została już zakończona w zeszłym roku. Użytkownicy ostatecznie stwierdzili że Polska może być określona jako państwo w Europe Środkowej jak i w Europe Wschodniej. Zawsze byłem przeciwny temu i uważałem że Polska znajduję się wyłącznie w Europie Środkowej jednak zostałem przegłosowany. W takich sytuacjach "prawo Wikipedii" jest po stronie tego niedoświadczonego i nowo-zarejestrowanego członka. Poza tym od pewnego czasu nikt nie interesował się zmianą położenia. Jedyną opcją będzie stworzenie nowej dyskusji i przekonanie innych, przeważnie tych ze Stanów Zjednoczonych, Wielkiej Brytanii i Rosji, że nasz kraj leży w samym sercu Europy, a nie na wschodnim i ubogim uboczu. Wątpię żeby to coś pomogło, ale warto spróbować raz jeszcze. Pozdrawiam, Oliszydlowski, 16:17, 28 czerwca, 2017 (UTC)

To znaczy że pierwszy lepszy użytkownik może sobie teraz wejść i zmienić położenie opis położenia Polski we wstępie? Uważam, że nasze położenie powinno być opisane co najmniej tak jak w przypadku Słowenii, gdzie jest stosowna adnotacja ale jest też wyszczególniona Europa Środkowa. W przypadku Czech, Słowacji czy Węgier jakoś nie ma tego problemu również. Jest po prostu Europa Środkowa. To niedorzeczne by tamte kraje umieszczać w Europie Środkowej a dla Polski stosować jakieś specjalne kryteria. Czy nie da sie unikając kolejnej dyskusji zostawiż opis chociazby taki jak ma Słowenia? Pozdrawiam NeonFor (talk) 11:11, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Silesian Metropolis

Masz może jakąś propozycję jak ująć Metropolię Silesia w haśle? Fakt miastem to nie jest ale zespół miast, jeden z największych w Europie, to raczej powód do dumy. Proponowałbym coś takiego ...i Szczecin oraz jednen z największych zespołów miejskich w Europie - Silesian Metropois. Ale nie wiem jak to gramatycznie ująć po angielsku aby było w 100% dobrze. pozdrawiam --Swd (talk) 17:11, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Poland, urbanization section

Hello Oliszydlowski, I just noticed that someone removed the 'Urbanization' section table with the list and pictures of the largest cities in Poland, do you know how to restore that edit? --E-960 (talk) 20:11, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Just restored the table all good. --E-960 (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Polish Folk

Stop this nonsense, people did not object when you added information that's only loosely related to Poland such as the Fashion and Design section. Yet, you do not allow other so include their contact?? What is wrong with you, sorry this is an article about POLAND not East Prussia. --E-960 (talk) 13:00, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

I understand but the content is so trivial and wouldn't it be better to summarise it in 2 sentences? Oliszydlowski, 23:01, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

NO it's not trivial, for centuries most of Poles lived that way if they were not nobility or town-folk. At least there could be one reference to that culture and life, the same way we mention Sarmatism! --E-960 (talk) 13:10, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes but you see Poland's borders shifted and Sarmatism refers to more the people and not architecture. Wooden architecture, with the exemption of Eastern Poland, is not common in the country. I tried to summarise it please have a look. Oliszydlowski, 23:12, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

This is ridiculous! Not common? Look at Greater Poland, Mazovia, Lesser Poland, and Kaszubia. Basically every part except Sielesia and East Pomorenia. --E-960 (talk) 13:22, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

not greater Poland. Secondly do not revive information which has been there for ages. You are obviously vindictive. Oliszydlowski Just like you tried to remove Zamosc? --E-960 (talk) 13:26, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

You know I think it's best to put a stop to this. Add back your entire folk section and please leave other sections alone. How many times can you be replacing these images honestly, Oliszydlowski

Thank you for the additions on the wooden synagogues and dwory'. --E-960 (talk) 13:59, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

I changed out the image to a different cottage, if this can resolve the issue and close the RfC, if not then we'll revert to the original image. --E-960 (talk) 16:20, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

PERFECT! I love the old town ensemble in Kazimierz Dolny. Been there and it's beautiful. Oliszydlowski, 03:08, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good, no one said editing Wikipedia is easy! --E-960 (talk) 17:20, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

eastern europe

Why you remove large part of content of eastern europe? Ufufcguc (talk) 09:52, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi, firstly User:TU-nor stated that "For such statistics to be presented here, we will need inclusion criteria. Must be discussed in talk page before reentering". Previously I found the content a bit contradictory as Poland was there in the article mentioned under the "Central Europe" section. Such things needs to be discussed but I was happy with the table being there, just without Central European nations. Best Regards. Oliszydlowski, 22:48, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Międzyzdroje

Międzyzdroje is a Polish town, with a Polish name. I'd like to believe that your actions did not constitute vandalism. It was but a good faith error, which needs to be corrected, with your help if possible. Moving and revising a whole bunch of pages, articles, and templates, from Polish Międzyzdroje to a German name "Misdroy" (Międzyzdroje) is troubling. This is like turning everything about Szczecin into Stettin in English Wikipedia. Not possible, and rather troubling. Please read the following

This page is affected by the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. The following rules apply in the case of disputes:

For Gdańsk, use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945
For Gdańsk, use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945
In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdańsk) and later Danzig exclusively
In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdańsk (Danzig) and later Gdańsk exclusively.
For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises.
Reverts to conform with community consensus are excluded from the three-revert rule (3RR). Only the place names can be reverted exempt from the 3RR according to the outcome of this vote, additional changes fall again under the 3RR. Please use descriptive edit summaries.
Persistent reverts against community consensus despite multiple warnings may be dealt with according to the rules in Wikipedia:Dealing with vandalism. In case of doubt, assume good faith and do not bite newcomers.

The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary.

Poeticbent talk 14:58, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

World Heritage Site

Why do you prefer "designation list" over "Infobox UNESCO world heritage site" here and here? It doesn't follow the infobox used by most or all other countries, and has problems e.g. "Reference no. [1]" instead of "Reference 835". Fram (talk) 08:05, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

I just follow what's on other articles e.g. Budapest. I've never seen your template before and it kind of looks bizarre. Possibly the most unconvincing reason I know. You can revert I don't mind. As long as they all match. Oliszydlowski, 19:25, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Most World Heritage Sites use Template:Infobox World Heritage Site (some 1400 articles), but recently this was deprecated and is in the process of being replaced by Template:UNESCO World Heritage Site. The intention is that all world heritage sites will use this, so that indeed they will all match. By the way, Budapest already uses this new template, since yesterday ;-) Fram (talk) 12:16, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, Oliszydlowski. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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My reversion to Silesian Metropolis.

Much apologies, but i had to revert some recent edits to Silesian Metropolis due to them being reverted by a IP sockpuppet of an indefinitely blocked user (User:LUCPOL). I had previously tried to clean the article up and removed most of it due to LUCPOL creating it as a carbon copy of the Katowice article about 10 years ago. I frequently fought with him over the past 10 years to get the article cleaned up but he constantly reverts the edits as anonymous IPs due to his indefinite block. I am very sorry if I reverted some of your good edits in the process, and I'm asking if you could potentially assist me in cleaning the article up? -- Wilner (Speak to me) 09:25, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

FYI, the article still has vast sections that are carbon copied from the Katowice article, and I'm unsure how to go about changing them.-- Wilner (Speak to me) 09:26, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Poland's PM

Hi My photo is better. The other is purple. --Panam2014 (talk) 22:19, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Adding "Polish-born" prior to Notable American figures' lead descriptions

According to Wikipedia's Manual of Style/Biographies, "previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." The default address prior to the description is always the subject's nationality and nothing more. According to Wikipedia's rules, "[the context] will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if the person is notable mainly for PAST events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable." Given that the Warner Brothers were American immigrants and furthermore, Americans, when they achieved their successes as notable studio executives, the place of birth and previous nationalities are not directly relevant to the lead. They are, of course, important facts in and of themselves, and hence elaborated upon further down in the article when describing birthplace and childhood. If we begin to add birth-place and /or previous nationality, why stop there? We would have to add in their place of upbringing and a variety of other factors to the lead as well. This would lower the quality of the lead and make it less to-the-point. Hence I have reverted the pages to the status-quo, removing the phrase "polish-born". 74.110.121.49 (talk) 11:47, 3 January 2018 (UTC) User74 74.110.121.49 (talk) 11:52, 3 January 2018 (UTC)User74

Max Fleischer, Polish American

Dear Oli,

I notice that you have altered my corrections from last week. This was done after waiting a reasonable period of time for your response. You failed to respond to my efforts to be reasonable with you. While I greatly appreciated your extended clarifications on the political divisions of the regions of the present Poland, the statement that Max Fleischer was a Polish-American and was "born and raised in Poland" is inaccurate. Also citing my book, THE ART AND INVENTIONS OF MAX FLEISCHER: AMERICAN ANIMATION PIONEER as the source of this claim is false. This is obvious since the link going Page 7 clearly shows that I made the distinction of Krakow in 1883 being under the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. And being the author of this book, and also being recognized as an authority on this subject matter qualifies me to address these issues.

While I recognize a personal pride in honoring Polish people of accomplishment, I must stress to you that your associating Max Fleischer in this case is mistaken. Let me address your attention to this important issue. According to Wikipedia's Manual of Style/Biographies, "previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." The default address prior to the description is always the subject's nationality and nothing more. According to Wikipedia's rules, "[the context] will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if the person is notable mainly for PAST events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable." Given that the Warner Brothers were American immigrants and furthermore, Americans, when they achieved their successes as notable studio executives, the place of birth and previous nationalities are not directly relevant to the lead. In other words, the Warner Brothers were Americans, not Poles. This comes directly from the passage above and is quoted from Wkikpedia's policy on this matter. Therefore, I urge you to take serious consideration to what I have gone to great lengths to clarify.

Max and his family never made any ethnic connections to Poland or to being "Polish." They identified themselves by nationality as being "Austrian," and ethnically as being "Jews." At least four sources confirm these details. They include Max's birth record in the Rabbinatsamt in Krakow, Immigration Registration Records, Census Records, and Max's Naturalization Papers from 1934. In each case, the country of origin was stated as "Austria." These facts are supported by the family, with particular reference to Max's grand daughter, Virginia Kneitel-Mahoney, who has Max's Naturalization Papers. These facts are also concurred by Mark Langer, formerly of Carlton University in Ottawa, Ontario Canada. And considering that I know these people, the Fleischer family in particular, adds to the confirmation of these facts.

While I can appreciate the subtle differences resulting in changing political conditions and the dissolution of provinces and kingdoms of the time, my research shows that these regions were not formally incorporated as part of Poland until 1919, following World War I. By that time, Max had already begun his career in the animation field. Also, in my research, I found no Political Maps that designated any province as "Austrian Poland." But Galicia is displayed as confirmed by the link you so graciously included. But your additions about Poland here are confusing and contradictory in additions to being unnecessary. Your link to the map does add additional information for those wishing additional history on this aspect. But the entry continues to be confused and contradictory as it is currently seen.

To say that Max was "born and raised" in Poland is misleading in this use of the phrase. One can be born in one location and raised in another. In this case, both Max and Charles were born in Austria, but were brought to The United States, specifically, New York City at the ages of four and five respectively. As was the case with many who emigrated to the U.S. as small children during this period, their formative years were clearly spent in The United States. And their Citizenship and nationality was assumed under a condition of established residence, which was common at the time. In this respect, Max was American, having been "raised" in that culture, and mastering the English Language. So again, this is another example similar to that of the Warner Brothers as defined by Wikipedia.

Another point about the Polish issue is that Poles had their own language and dialects as you should very well know. Max's parents originally spoke German, and quickly assimilated to American Culture and the English language. The distinction between Polish Jews and non-Polish Jews in the regions of Galicia was more a matter of social status, or class. Even though the residents were all essentially poor, there were distinctions even within this level. While it might be reasoned that the Fleischers might have distanced themselves from some lower level of this "Peasant Class," they seemed to be consistent in their honesty about who they were. For this reason, it does not seem credible that they would deny coming from a low class Polish background especially since there was no cultural connection to Polish Culture in their history that is confirmed by the family.

Until the publishing of my book, Max's original birth name was not known. And while his parents were known by their common names, "William and Amalia (Amelia)," my research reveals the names of Aaron Wolf Fleischer and Malka Palaz were used within their religion.

You suggest that William "may have spent some time in Vienna." This is a broad generalization that is both vague as well as credible. While it is certainly possible that William may have visited Vienna at one time, attended school there, or had clients that brought him there, no acknowledgement of this comes from the stories that the family has. To say that "he may have spent some time there" also suggests that he took up residence. To date, we have no proof of this being true, and the family does not have any information to confirm this. Accordingly, there would be an interest in knowing what sources can confirm this as fact. But since the entry is about Max Fleischer and not his father, this in an unnecessary detail. And your suggestion here is more of an "opinion" or supposition that cannot be confirmed as fact. Therefore, in the interest of accuracy in details as you seem interested in, it would be best to avoid such fabrications.

I might suggest that we consider tightening some of the additions about Poland especially since your addition seems a bit redundant and contradictory. This is the case with the opening sentence, which qualifies the time period of Krakow being then under Austria-Hungary. It might meet mutual satisfaction to add the clarification of(now Poland)to lessen any confusion here.

While I recognize and respect your passion for the Polish people, I must ask that you return that respect as you edit my carefully researched and structured entry. In that regard, the courtesy of contacting me about expanding on my text would be in order.

Very sincerely yours,

Ray Pointer — Preceding unsigned comment added by RayPointer (talk • contribs) 01:37, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Response on the Max Fleischer entry

Dear Oli,

I have been looking forward to your responses since I finally was able to weed through the complicated Wikipedia messaging process. While I have not received any further responses from you since November, I notice that some changes have been made that seem to reflect issues I raised. While I greatly appreciate your additions to the political history of Poland and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, we sill have some confusing and contradictory statements.

1) Born and "raised" in Poland. While Max Fleischer was born in Krakow, he was not raised there. He was brought to the U.S. at age four and spent rest of his formative years raised in New York City. Therefore, I suggest that the word, "raised" be edited from that sentence.

2) The first sentence citing Max Fleischer as a "Polish-American Animator" is incorrect and diminishing in his importance to history. He was not just an "Animator," he was an American animation pioneer and inventor. This is far more precise to his importance. Further, labeling Max Fleischer as a "Polish-American" is a false claim. And citing my book as the source of this claim is also false since the link to page 7 contradicts this, clarifying that this was then under Austria-Hungary. Regardless of the political subdivisions, we need to be clear and simple here. And your links help define these distinctions. But for the sake of sentence clarity and understanding the historical timeline, I strongly suggest refraining from the statement linking this region to Poland at the time of Max's birth and labeling him as "Polish."

First, the Fleischers were not Poles, but Jews from the province identified as Galicia, as you point out with additional details. But the Fleischers were not "Polish Jews" and they never identified themselves as Poles. What is being confused here is nationality and ethnicity. Their "nationality" was Austrian, and their ethnicity and religious affiliation was Jewish. Further, the Fleischer name is Germanic in origin and they spoke German, not Polish. So it is clearly inaccurate to label them and Max in particular as having been "Polish." Further, being brought to the U.S. at age four and spending his formative years, growing up in New York City, he was an American through assumed association of the emigration of his parents. His citizenship was finalized in 1934 with his Naturalization Papers stating his country of origin as "Austria." Additionally all other records are consistent with this including Immigration Records and Census Records. Should you have any documentation to disprove these facts, it would be most appreciated.

I look forward to seeing these areas of confusion cleared up.

Very sincerely yours.

Ray Pointer Author of THE ART AND INVENTIONS OF MAX FLEISCHER: AMERICAN ANIMATION PIONEER

Your signature

Can you please fix whatever you've done to your signature? It's leaving the wrong timestamps. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:43, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Polanski

Just wanted to add a note on the side, outside of the Poland talk page, I'm really disappointed by the recent exchange, if you recall the RfC you initiated sometime back on the Architecture section, and the image of the "chata", I compromised and added the image of Kazimierz Dolny, yet in this exchange you are sticking to your guns despite being aware of the fact that Polanski, despite his great work, is a controversial/questionable figure that might not be the best poster-boy for Polish cinema. You could have added an image of a 'Polish Movie Poster' which have become a phenomenon with Martin Scorsese exclaiming their uniqueness and cultural relevance see one article here: [9] and here: [10] --E-960 (talk) 02:02, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

I compromised too and agreed to the Constitution image you are trying to keep. So I believe it's fair. Regardless I won't make any further image changes to the article. I think it reached its zenith. Best Regards. Oliszydlowski, 03:08, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Your behavior is obnoxious, what compromise are you talking about, you did not even bother to say that you are withdrawing your RfC, also this is a BS tactic... you go change several things at once and then say you compromise by keeping one. --E-960 (talk) 16:14, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Your compromise is like taking $2 and then saying "lets compromise, I'll give you back a dollar". --E-960 (talk) 16:17, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

It's not obnoxious. I am not going over this again. It was fine for a few days until you started again. I consider this topic with Polanski settled, the only reason why I did not withdraw the RfC is because of respect to other users and your contributions. I don't see how this article needs further edits. And mind yourself when calling users obnoxious. This is against Wikipedia's policy. And why would you change the official name of Ladislas Starevich. I don't mind it but he is not known by his Polish name. Also Zalipie was discussed too between us and other users too. I believe you are making this article to your advantage. Just leave it be. Oliszydlowski, 16:19, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

You should leave the article be, I noticed that step by step you go in and revert ever image that's not yours. Btw, let me ask you first, why did you make all those changes to the article a few days back. In all honesty they should have been reverted and a discussion on the talk page initiated. Also, stop jumping to RfCs in order to avoid a discussion on the talk page, again a cheap tactic to push through your changes. --E-960 (talk) 16:28, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Finally, I'm not sure why you are so keen on promoting Polanski who is a child abuser — he was not even born in Poland, but France, then left for the US where he became famous, just like with your other selections, can you actually focus on people who lived and became famous in Poland? As noted above on your talk page by other users, you are really making a stretch with some of them. --E-960 (talk) 16:31, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Firstly all the changes mentioned were reverted except the cinema section and the placement of two images (the Pope and Kościuszko). Secondly, I do not care about Polanski's personal life, but on his career as this is a cinema sections, not a section about accused directors. It clearly says controversial in the caption. Polanski is one of the greatest European directors. You obviously lack knowledge about his career. His place of birth does not have anything to do with his cinematic achievements. There were many Poles scattered across the globe who still contributed to Polish culture. All famous Poles were in fact emigres to other countries like Marie Curie. Almost all of his films were somewhat linked to his Polish identity. He was also recently awarded in Poland for his directing skill, see this source - [11] Oliszydlowski, 16:36, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Oliszydlowski, if you care about his work more than the person... than I would think the movie poster of 'Knife in the Water' would have been a better choice, focusing on his film(s) more than the picture of him (proudly standing), right? --E-960 (talk) 16:46, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Actually movie posters are not encouraged in country articles. I heard it somewhere. Also someone a while back wanted to add the film poster for 'Ida' that won the Oscar but it was reverted. Plus I don't see how that film you added is significant enough. Most cinema sections have images of directors like the United Kingdom, Serbia, Greece etc. Oliszydlowski, 16:49, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

You could say the same thing about that image from Nero's palace, besides, at least 'Knife in the Water' was made in Poland by Polanski when he was in Poland (it's the film that won him critical acclaim). Btw, Polish movie posters are also renowned for their uniqueness... I included those articles for you previously. --E-960 (talk) 16:55, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Isn't the scene from Nero's Palace a painting? I honestly don't know about movie posters, I know they were reverted a lot. I think no one knows Knife in the Water. It is old and outdated, and not like say Gone with the Wind which became a cult classic despite being made decades ago. I sincerely see no further changes needed for the Poland article. Can't we just settle on what there is. You seemed satisfied before and other users must have been too since they were not reverting anything. I won't change or edit anymore to be honest unless it is related to grammar or typos. Oliszydlowski, 17:00, 17 April 2018 (UTC).

I still think the movie poster is a better alternative to a portrait of Polanski, at least it focuses on his work, so we don't have an image of Polanski standing tall along with Kazimierz Wielki, Pilsudski, Curie, etc. Too much controversy especially now with Hollywood. --E-960 (talk) 17:09, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, however, how does Hollywood fit with Poland? This is Polanski's contribution to his country. Though in Hollywood he is viewed by some as a molester, in Poland he is still the leading and highly regarded/respected director. If this was an article about Hollywood then I'd understand. I mean look at Germany's article....Hitler is there. Oliszydlowski, 17:12, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Hard to replace Hitler on the Germany article, however when it comes to Polanski, there are alternatives. --E-960 (talk) 17:15, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

As a final note, I wouldn't replace Polanski. His achievements to Polish cinematography are outstanding and almost all of his films became icons. He is among the greatest and most recognizable Poles that has ever lived and he is even in the Polish-language Wikipedia article about Poles in the honorable gallery. There is no alternative to his work or him as a director. I do not know what other users think, but I believe that the way he is greeted in Poland and honoured is a suggestion. Oliszydlowski, 16:20, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

But, in any case, I haven't noticed that regarding the Constitution RfC you changed your vote or made a comment that after a discussion the original image should stay or suggest the RfC should be closed. --E-960 (talk) 17:40, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Poland article: most of whom were Poles, Germans, Ukrainians, and Jews ?

I don't see your reason for reverting my edit to "most of whom were Germans, Poles, Ukrainians, and Jews". Regarding the forced migration, numbers are clear that Germans were the most. The article further down gives 7 M Germans, reference 78 gives 2 M Poles. Why does it "sound a bit bizarre"? Certainly, the shifting of borders was bizarre indeed, but this was the result. Wikipedia is for giving the facts, which then will clearly tell that Poles suffered more under Nazi occupation than the millions of deplaced Germans, but hiding the facts does not help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stan Tincon (talk • contribs) 21:55, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Conrad

Oliszydlowski, sorry to revert your recent edit. To clarify this matter, as I don't like conflict, please see edits to the lede around 5 May, made by Nihil novi. I made a minor tweak to the change. All the best. Rwood128 (talk) 10:55, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't see why you press on with this. All is explained in the body. Oliszydlowski. 11:01, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Given that two editors had supported the change, shouldn't you have first discussed this matter on the Talk page? Anyhow I don't propose to make any further changes, as this did not begin with me. Rwood128 (talk) 12:22, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

I understand. I will have a discussion with other users. Oliszydlowski. 12:38, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Merangs. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

[1] Od „litwińskości” ku „krajowości”. Polityczno-kulturowe tradycje Kresów Wschodnich w XIX wieku

[2] Игнатий Домейко

[3] ИГНАТИЙ ДОМЕЙКО – «ГРАНДЕ ЭДУКАДОР»

[4] Pobocza Europy : Białoruś

[5] Soviet geography: review and translation January 1982

[6] 226

[7] [1]

[8] В.А. ЛИЗОГУБ ФОРМУВАННЯ СТАНОВИХ ПРАВ ШЛЯХТИ НА УКРАЇНСЬКИХ ЗЕМЛЯХ У ХVІ-XVIII СТ.

[9] [2]

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[8]

[9]