Talk:Shuttlecraft (Star Trek)

This article was nominated for deletion on 21 November 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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Redirect?

Hey, all -- I believe I've done an appropriate job of merging meaningful real-world content from this article into Spacecraft in Star Trek. I'd appreciate some looking-over-the-shoulders (particularly someone who participated at AfD) to chime in, and let me know if a redirect to the aforementioned article would be okay with folks. --EEMIV (talk) 04:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lacking feedback, I'm going to redirect this article to Spacecraft in Star Trek some time tomorrow. --EEMIV (talk) 16:47, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The topic is independently notable so it could have an article. What is the need to redirect this article instead of just cleaning it up? (I noticed you didn't keep the images – I'd like to see at least one of them kept.) – Pnm (talk) 04:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good questions. There probably is a potential article with stand-alone notability for the original series shuttlecraft: there's real-world production information in the redirect target, and also data on the model's sales. I'm about to drop in a blurb about it being a Christmas ornament, too :-). So, I don't disagree that there's potential. (I did take a look at all the references someone provided at AfD -- most of them mention the vessel in passing, i.e. as part of a plot summary, or verify the subject's existence from the perspective of an in-universe reference source; others I did integrate at the redirect target, and I realize now I missed one and I'm going to toss that bit in, too.)

However, current content is overwhelmingly in-universe, little of it focused on the actual notable subject, and the remaining details focus on two trivial vessels. The redirect doesn't lead the removal of any encyclopedic content (just relocation), and it removes in-universe trivia; I think it's a net gain. However, it would certainly be worth everyone's time for e.g. someone to develop a more appropriate shuttlecraft article in userspace and migrate it over.

As for the images: the two pictures in the article are both of a trivial vessel whose design, concept, etc. are not subject to discussion in the article (here or at redirect target); their inclusion does not aid in the understanding of the topic, and their omission doesn't hurt, i.e. the images don't pass WP:NFCC. The redirect target does discuss the design and production of both the TOS and TNG vessels; images of those franchise shuttlecraft could be worth getting, either for a reconstitution of this article or at Spacecraft in Star Trek. --EEMIV (talk) 13:39, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NYTimes: Thomas W. Kellogg worked on TOS Shuttle design

I'll let the Trekkies decide how to incorporate (or not), this info.: After the Avanti, Mr. Kellogg went on to work on designs for exteriors of Rolls-Royce, Porsche and recreational vehicles; dinnerware for Wedgwood; the interior design of the DC-10 aircraft for McDonnell Douglas; and the shuttle craft for the Star Trek television series. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/19/business/thomas-w-kellogg-71-a-studebaker-avanti-designer.html?pagewanted=al Phantom in ca (talk) 01:20, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Removal

I've removed this content because it is uncited speculation that the Star Trek concept of a "shuttlecraft" has any impact on these other vehicles. It is entirely original research to posit a connection, and in some cases goes even further into OR territory with "implications" about origins and use. It's encyclopedic and doesn't warrant inclusion here. --EEMIV (talk) 10:15, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. This reads as someone's personal project, with few citations and imprecise, extravagant and impossible claims. For example, the section on the 2009 "Star Trek" film lacks any citations and claims the film features "endless" varieties of spaceships, which is physically impossible.Jtcarpet (talk) 05:06, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 16 February 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Shuttle (spacecraft type) → Shuttlecraft → Shuttlecraft (disambiguation) samee ^talk 12:45, 3 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Shuttlecraft (Star Trek) → Shuttlecraft – This article is the clear primary topic for this name. While there may be an overall term for "shuttle" type craft in general, the word "shuttlecraft" is overwhelmingly used in a Star Trek context by sources rather than for landing/transport spacecraft as a whole. Disambiguation page is likely unnecessary, a hatnote can accomplish the same. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 18:26, 16 February 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. 187.130.75.2 (talk) 19:02, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose target is a dab page; And sorry think that this like transporter (in sci-fi matter context) has now sunk into generic sci-fi use. Red Dwarf and so on. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:13, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @In ictu oculi: I have created a page Shuttle (spacecraft type) referring to shuttles in general. While it might be argued that "shuttle craft" could be used (though it would be confusing as a title), the portmanteau "shuttlecraft" is mostly Star Trek oriented. Per WP:SMALLDETAILS the two could be separate anyway._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 19:57, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mmm, okay that might help, strange though that Shuttle (Star Trek) actually looks to be more common in GBooks than Shuttlecraft. Has the term "Shuttle" ever been used in a Star Trek official script? BTW shuttle craft and shuttle-craft still need to redirect to Shuttle (weaving) not as they are doing now. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:02, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@In ictu oculi:I agree about "shuttle craft" so I redirected it. I still think "shuttlecraft" is more of a neologism and under WP:SMALLDETAILS the Star Trek article can be there. They are primarily called "shuttlecraft" rather than "shuttles" in Memory Alpha. [1]_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 20:09, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I can't possibly take a view on this, it needs a Star Trek devotee to distinguish - but I just did a search "shuttle" Kirk then Picard in GBooks and seems like an awful lot of Shuttle not shuttlecraft. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:21, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

move Shuttle (spacecraft type) > Shuttlecraft as WP:CONCEPTDAB. An excellent start and summary which can cover the broad topic. In "Star Trek" usage, "shuttlecraft" is a broad classification and portmanteau of shuttle and spacecraft, whereas in casual conversation its shortened to "shuttle" as in "Commander, take a shuttle down the the surface". Its either a shortening of the longer portmanteau to reference the vehicle itself OR a way of speaking of the style of quick point-to-point transport (short of like in shuttle bus or air shuttle). -- Netoholic @ 21:55, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Move Shuttle (spacecraft type) to Shuttlecraft as above. The term may have originated in Star Trek, but it's now frequently used in science fiction. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:10, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.