Talk:Scarlett (gamer)

Trans

I am removing the information that Scarlett is trans from her Wikipedia entry, due to WP:Biographies_of_living_persons. She has mentioned on multiple occasions that her being trans is completely irrelevant, and the information was already removed, among others, from the German WP page about her, and from her player page on the TeamLiquid wiki. She explicitly states there that she doesn't want this mentioned, and unless anything comes up that somehow makes her being trans *relevant*, we should heed the restrictions of WP:Biographies_of_living_persons. "I don't see why this is relevant to my player page. It is disrespectful as I have always tried to make it a complete non-issue and including this is subverting that and akin to mentioning someone is the best gay/black/etc player; something that has absolutely no relevance on how they play. Also I have - never - mentioned anything about it in an interview/show/etc (the ThisIsGame article included something from a private discussion which was not intended to be published). Scarlett` 18:45, 2 May 2012 (KST)" Source where Scarlett states she doesn't want this mentioned:. --ZDragon (talk) 14:42, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Hmm. I'm not sure it should be removed. The article that was being cited for it has it in the title of the article; it's hardly hidden unsourced information, and was evidently deemed important enough information for such a prominent position in that source. That said, I understand that she didn't want it on her TL article, so I'm not sure. Sam Walton (talk) 15:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

This is a tough situation. Obviously, subjects should not dictate what their articles are about: if a significant number of reliable sources discuss something then we should include it. On the other hand, this has been particularly nasty and common attack against her, as if being a trans woman somehow grants an in-game advantage. (Which of course it does not.) We may have to discuss this again if/when reliable sources cover this more significantly, and find an appropriate way to phrase it in the article. Woodroar (talk) 01:36, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Our job is to present the sources. Hostyn's coverage makes it very clear that games journalists feel the distinction matters. I think a fair solution would be to cite a confirmed source (self-published or, ideally, secondary) about Hostyn's views alongside what the journalists wrote. – czar 02:59, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Scarlett is a great and entertaining player, but implying biological gender has no effect on a gamer's style and ability is beyond ridiculous. We live in a real world - where everything from the color of a bird's plumage, the shape of an insects wings, or the fast-twitch muscle fibers of a gazelle all create differences which should not be ignored for political or societal reasons. Scarlett being biologically male absolutely affects her gameplay - everything from how / when she chooses to be aggressive (or not), to how quick she can react to stimulus. I respect every person's right to their own selves, but competitive gaming is a competition, and, as such, demands fairness. It is scientifically proven that males, on average, react faster than females to visual and audible stimuli (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456887/). Scarlett, being biologically male, benefits from this biological stimulus (even more-so than the average man). Is Scarlett's transgender status relevant in random conversation? No. Is it relevant when discussing her skill and ability in gaming? Yes.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.237.92.198 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

If you have sources stating that she has some kind of advantage, let's see them. Given how antiandrogen (and other) hormone therapy works, I doubt that any MEDRS- and BLP-compliant sources exist. Woodroar (talk) 01:30, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

That's fine, remove the part about "trans" and just refer to scarlett as a biological male, or a "male" in general. Scarlett is not the "first woman" anything. Drownedcreation (talk) 01:23, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

No, and if you continue with this I will report your account. Feel free to read the warn on top of this page, the part that says "The Arbitration Committee has authorized uninvolved administrators to impose discretionary sanctions on users who edit pages related to gender-related disputes or controversies or in people associated with them, including this article." (CC) Tbhotch^™ 20:45, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

[non-constructive attack comment removed, Drownedcreation indef'ed NOTHERE]. DMacks (talk) 13:57, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

All this silliness does is make people distrust wikipedia. If you guys can't even figure out the difference between male and female, or worse yet are intentionally misleading people on ideological grounds, how can you be trusted with even more important information? If this gas lighting is enforced at an administrative level then this website is no more than a modern day Ministry of Truth. 1stfemalewikieditor (talk) 16:05, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

First woman to win a major StarCraft II tournament

The "and is the first woman to win a major StarCraft II tournament" claim has been removed several times recently and I'd rather not edit war over it. It seems to be reliably sourced to PC Gamer ("Scarlett's win sees her become the first female player to win a major international LAN in StarCraft 2") and Paste Magazine ("Sasha “Scarlett” Hostyn became the first woman to win a major StarCraft 2 competition") so I believe this sentence should be restored. Woodroar (talk) 11:57, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

It's a factually incorrect claim and only serves to re-enforce the idea that men are better than women at everything. When a real woman wins a SCII tournament she will be robbed of her deserved glory by this ruse. 1stfemalewikieditor (talk) 16:01, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

I've edited that sentence to specify that she's a trans-woman. I think that's a fair compromise. Omitting that she's trans is both misleading and dishonest, but it is still a noteworthy achievement that should be mentioned. 1stfemalewikieditor (talk) 17:39, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

That's not how it works. Our "job" is to summarize what reliable sources say, without adding our own editorial spin. Woodroar (talk) 18:31, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

We have plenty of reliable sources stating that she is a trans-woman. I'm a bit baffled at the attempt to bury this information. What are you hoping to accomplish? Do you think you're going to trick people? 1stfemalewikieditor (talk) 02:48, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, she's a transwoman. She's also Canadian, but we're not going to write "first Canadian" when the sources say "first woman". We summarize what the sources say, it's that simple. Woodroar (talk) 02:58, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Career

2022 Scarlett currently plays for the Shopify rebellion, and has been recently resigned for another two years. https://www.dailyesports.gg/shopify-forms-rebellion-and-signs-starcraft-ii-pro-scarlett/ https://twitter.com/ShopifyRebels/status/1466853675863707649 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.95.160 (talk) 21:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)