Talk:How I Got Over

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Untitled

'How I Got Over' is one of the standard works in the Black gospel repetoire, just like 'Precious Lord, Take My Hand' by Thomas Dorsey, which has a Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_My_Hand,_Precious_Lord) of its own. It has been recorded by EVERY major Black gospel singer. If you examine Aretha Franklin's page and that of Mahalia Jackson, and follow the links to their CDs you will see this listed among both. On Mahalia's Wikipage it is listed among her best known songs, and until I created this page today, that link was dead. The song's significance to the American civil rights movement is evidenced by Mahalia Jackson's historic performance of it at the August 28, 1963 March on Washington (when Dr. Martin Luther King gave his famous 'I Have A Dream' speech). Aretha Franklin gave a legendary performance of it on her landmark 'Amazing Grace' album. --Agriffinny 02:01, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

authorship

from time to time, someone comes and makes an edit that asserts this song was not written by Clara Ward, but by W. Herbert Brewster. the whole article is unsourced so idk, but enough people think it was brewster and not ward, that now i wonder who wrote it. -badmachine 23:51, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 November 2024

It has been proposed in this section that How I Got Over be renamed and moved to How I Got Over (song).

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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How I Got Over → How I Got Over (song) – Roots album has several times more page views, no PTOPIC. New title should still have a hatnote, since the album has a title track, but additional disambiguation to How I Got Over (Clara Ward song) feels unnecessary. Mach61 20:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). 162 etc. (talk) 21:02, 19 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Raladic (talk) 23:38, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@162 etc. since you removed this from RM/TR, please explain why you disagree with this proposal Mach61 22:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"How I Got Over" is one of the best-selling gospel songs of all time, and is in the National Recording Registry. WP:RMT is for uncontroversial moves, and this is not one of them. 162 etc. (talk) 23:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the album has 993 views compared with only 272[[1]] for the song. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I guess if I have to give a more detailed rationale: In cases where the WP:long-term significance of a topic is considered enough to make it the WP:PTOPIC over a much more popular subject (e.g. Apple and Apple Inc., Java and Java (programming language)), the less popular subject is on a completely different order of magnitude in terms of a "long term"; two 20th-century institutions vs. a fruit and an island that have been around for millions of years and documented in literature for millenia. In the grand scheme of all documented history, the song and album have been released pretty close to each other (i.e. within a century), which means the "usage" criterion of PTOPIC should take priority. Mach61 20:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could we not have "How I Got Over (Clara Ward song)" and "How I Got Over (The Roots album)"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Martinevans123 Why would "(the Roots album)" not fail WP:CONCISE? Are there any other albums with that title? Mach61 21:58, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just an idea. Yes, I'm sure it would fail WP:CONCISE. If you look hard enough, it seems there's not much in the project that doesn't fail some rule or guideline. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: The library of congress registry of the song mention makes a compelling WP:PT2 case, so could this be a case of no primary if when we have one that is clear PT1 and one that is clear PT2 and hence instead a WP:DAB page instead? Relisting to please create a clearer consensus. Raladic (talk) 23:38, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Raladic I don't mind relisting for lack of participation, but this relisting comment is effectively hiding a novel argument (that the album falls under PT1 – I never said that, and in fact think there is no PT1) as a rhetorical question, which is in contradiction to the neutral role relisters should have per WP:RMRELIST Mach61 01:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I think you misunderstood the relisting comment because I used the word "if" above, struck and replaced with "when". There was no novel argument in here, I assessed the discussion to make a decision between closing as no consensus or relisting, but given the current discussion, the direction of it was very unclear, so the relisting comment asked for clarity of the specific aspect that is currently unclear. 162 etc. brought a compelling point that the song is PT2. We don't have a rule that one takes priority over the other, instead we request discussion to happen (WP:PTOPIC) In such a case, consensus may be useful in determining which topic, if any, is the primary topic. The wording of the RM and the discussion does not make it entirely clear whether people are arguing that the album should replace the song as PTOPIC, or whether a new DAB should be established at the base. This is all that my comment is trying to gather, please clarify clear intention in the discussion, so that we as closers don't have to try to guess or close something as no consensus. Raladic (talk) 03:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. This reads to me as a WP:NOPRIMARY situation. I believe the song definitely has more long-term significance (see 162's rationale for details) than the album, but I don't think that the significance gap is large enough to completely overpower the Roots album's pageview lead. Thus, my read is that both topics fall short of the PRIMARYTOPIC threshold. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:29, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]