Talk:Grafton Street

Grafton Street (song)

Grafton Street is a song by the English pop singer Dido which features in her new album "Safe Trip home", out on the 17th of november. The song is considered Dido's masterpiece, with her moving lyrics, which apparently talk about Dido's feelings after the death of her father, and the Celtic- influenced music. In fact at the end of the song, Dido herself plays the flute in an unexpected a-solo which could move to tears. "Grafton Street" is the name of an Irish street, which is probably linked to Dido's experience of life during the time in which her father was at the hospital or to sometime spent with her father about which Dido remembers. The song is expedcted to be the second single released from the album, after Don't believe in love. In fact, while "Don't believe in love" has just entered the Euro chart and there hasn't been an official worldwide release and video yet for the song, "Grafton Street" is already among the Bubbling under Chart, entering this "under 200" chart on the 14th of October, at number 62. Adrianacleto (talk) 22:29, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

References

Irrelevant information

I have removed a paragraph about an isolated instance of street crime on the street, as it seems irrelevant and gives the impression that this is an important feature of the street, which it is not. I also question whether Michael Bublé turning on Christmas lights 2 years ago is really essential.Joe Byrne -- Plé -- Contribs - :ga: - :fr: - - 01:54, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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River Steyne

The street was basically laid out on the course of this long-buried river, and it would be good to add a mention. I will try to find a suitable reference. SeoR (talk) 21:02, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Bewley's first closing date

I'm struggling to find a source for "Following a campaign, the café on Grafton Street, which had closed, was reopened." and I didn't think it was going to be this taxing. Obviously it must be some time between 2004 and 2015, but a basic Google News search only brings up pieces about the more recent COVID-19-related closure. The parent article says "this outlet was closed between November 2004 and May 2005 for refurbishment and restoration" but cites a source dated December 2004 (the same as used here) which cannot support anything in 2005. Any ideas? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:42, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi; great to update this surprisingly weak article. On this point, there were multiple 2004 sources for closure and possible fates, but indeed not so much on reopening. I have a note of one in the Irish Times during 2009, which states: "BEWLEYS - Bewley’s presence on Grafton Street owes as much to tradition as it does to commercial sense, as it represents only 7 per cent of Campbell Bewley’s turnover. It controversially closed in 2004, before re-opening a year later in partnership with Café Bar Deli.", I will get details and add it during the day ahead. And I see I must get back to a water point above too, that will be in either Sweeney or Doyle. SeoR (talk) 00:11, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Grafton Street/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: LunaEatsTuna (talk · contribs) 05:58, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Hoping to get to this later today! 𓃦LunaEatsTuna (💬) 05:58, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

• Thanks for the fascinating read! This is my first time reviewing a GAN about a street so please bear with me. Anyways, I have placed this nomination on hold for one week and left some comments below. Please ping me once you have addressed my concerns so that I can know when to reevaluate. (emphasis on ping because recently people have been forgetting to do that ):<). Thanks! 𓃦LunaEatsTuna (💬) 19:28, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

@LunaEatsTuna: I think most of the issues have been addressed one way or another; possibly the only other things that could be done is to mine a few more specifics from book sources. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:42, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Should not be too big a deal :) All of the other issues have been addressed. As for the book sources, it would be great to expand this article with them—but GAs are not as strict as FAs and the article is certainly of highly proficient quality nonetheless. As for the Cultural references I would remove the entries for The Script, Bagatelle and Noel Purcell as they seem quite trivial. I trust you to make these minor alterations, so I am now pleased to pass this article for GA status per the changes already implemented. Nice work, and congrats! 𓃦LunaEatsTuna (💬) 06:26, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Copyvio check

Earwig says good to go. No concerns from me either.

Files

All images relevant, of acceptable quality and copyright-free:

• File:Grafton St, Dublin.jpg: CC-BY-SA 3.0, uploaded to Commons by photographer;
• File:79 Grafton Street... (8248610379).jpg: valid public domain rationale;
• File:NLI Fusiliers Arch Grafton Street.jpg: valid public domain rationale per National Library of Ireland;
• File:Teletubby Buskers.jpg: CC-BY-SA 2.0;
• File:Grafton Street Disney Store.jpg: CC-BY-SA 4.0, uploaded to Commons by photographer (Ritchie333, in fact—thanks!).

Prose

• The first paragraph of the lead uses four parentheses which is quite a lot. Recommend replacing the ones of "the other being Henry Street" with a single em dash at the beginning. Y
• "connecting College Green to St Stephen's Green, which" – wikilink both places as first mentions in the body. Y
• "Liffey near O'Connell Bridge." – wikilink these and unlink their mentions in "(now O'Connell Bridge) in 1758, spanning the River Liffey" Y
• Can 19th century be expanded upon at all? It sounds like quite an eventful period. - to explore - reqs book work
• "By 1849 several" – missing a comma? Y
• "on the other side of the city" – replace with the area's direction instead (to the north/south etc.) Y
• "As part of a wider set of proposals to rename a number of Dublin streets in 1921" – is any more information available on this? - to explore, there was a period of "new nationhood" renaming, will see what is readily in good sources Y - handled by Smirkybec
• "Grafton Street in premises above two shops." – does the source say if these were residential?

It was an employment agency (ie: commercial), I've clarified this Y

• "had become congested, with the street full of cars and buses," – redundant; this is what congestion means. Y Also:
• Wikilink pedestrianisation. Y
• "walls of Trinity College," – wikilink Trinity College. Y
• "early 1900s, and 1990s" – its 1990s redevelopment is not mentioned anywhere in History? - will look into this - book and/or newspaper checks

The 1990s activity is cited to Casey 2005 p. 519, specific redevelopments are mentioned in the individual houses. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:23, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

• "All this activity in all resulted" – sounds jaded, recommend "Altogether, this activity resulted" Y
• "place to meet and socialise." – recommend "place to convene and socialise" - would "gather" be OK instead of "convene"? Y
• "Following a campaign, the café on Grafton Street, which had closed, was reopened." – the previous sentence says it was only at risk of closing? - will clarify in papers (it did close, this may be a matter of what's in particular sources)
• The sentence starting "The northern end of the street was" – is a bit long. Could it be split into two sentences? Y
• On the list of Grafton Street buskers, some of the people's descriptions start with a capital whilst others do not. I think either way is acceptable, but this should be consistent. Y

Refs

Does not pass spotcheck. No concerns with refs 2, 10, 26, 32, 45, 51, 53 or 60. But:
For ref 13 I could not confirm "somewhat restoring Grafton Street's reputation," Y and for ref 37 I saw no mention of the price being "€60 if using amplification". Y - additional cite added, so all refs > #37 are renumbered 1

I didn't think personally that it was original research to say that Grafton Street has got better since the late 19th century, though the sources in question don't explicitly mention this, aside from Casey's account of multiple redevelopments. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:25, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Also:

• Ref 13 is missing the author's name—I believe it is Donal Fallon. Y
• Ref 16 has no publication name. Y
• Ref 17 appears to be a dead link. Y (replaced)
• Ref 18 needs more info. Y
• Is a better publication name available for ref 35? Y - clarified as far as possible
• Same concern as above for refs 41–42. Y
• Refs 43–49, 51 have both the URLs and publication names. The URLs should be removed for consistency. Y I think I sorted all inconsistencies, but between us, we will check again
• Refs 52–58 could probably be expanded with some more info. Y

Other

Short description, infobox, navs, See also, other templates and cats good.

• In External links, use template:Official website. Y

Smirkybec, SeoR - just to let you know this review is now underway in case you can get to issues before I do. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:26, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, and first fixes done, I trust to a level you'd agree with, but on a few points we need to explore and add or reply... SeoR (talk) 20:52, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Drive-by comment: the Cultural references section could probably be tightened per Wikipedia:"In popular culture" content. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:35, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

What does "tightened" mean in this context? If you think the "Cultural references" section contains too many indiscriminate entries, which ones could go? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:26, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cultural references per GA Review

The following are removed per the GA Review conclusion. I suggest that at least one might go back - Bagatelle, for example - but this should be debated. SeoR (talk) 00:20, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

• In the song "Before the Worst" performed by The Script, Grafton Street is mentioned in the lyrics; "It was Grafton Street on a rainy night, I was down on one knee and you were mine for life".(was ref name="LyricsMania" The Script. "Before the Worst". Retrieved 23 January 2023. )
• Noel Purcell made the song "Dublin Saunter" well known; it includes the line "Grafton Street's a wonderland, there's magic in the air".(was ref name="KingL_DubSau" "Dublin Saunter (Dublin Can Be Heaven)". 2 May 2014. Archived from the original on 2 May 2014.. )
• Bagatelle, an Irish rock band in the 1970s refer to Grafton Street in their song "Summer in Dublin"; "And young people walking down Grafton Street, everyone looking so well".(was ref - Bagatelle. "Summer in Dublin" Archived 4 October 2011 at the Wayback Machine )

Maybe it's just me and my vintage but, whatever about the others, I think the Bagatelle "cultural reference" is sufficiently worthy of mention. While the lyricsbay.com reference perhaps doesn't establish the nature of the "cultural reference" (to a more removed editor/reader), the connection is perhaps more concretely covered in the Irish Times or in the Sunday Times (UK) and other sources. Personally, if we're to have a "cultural references" section at all, this entry would seem conspicuous by its absence. Certainly, with every respect to Ed Sheeran, Bagatelle's reference is far more resonant a "cultural reference" than Sheeran's cheap (chuck-in-all-the-places-people-heard-of) throw-away mention. And verifiably so (given that that Sunday Times article, for example, uses the Bagatelle reference as a baseline for a 'quintessential' Grafton Street). Anyway, my 2 cents. FWIW.... Guliolopez (talk) 00:54, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree, esp. re. Bagatelle. Our reviewer, to be fair, was clear that they were new to the topic, and street GAs, and I think we are free, after some discussion to rework the section appropriately - with, as you note, perhaps stronger referencing. SeoR (talk) 01:14, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

OK. It's been a further week or so and, absent other/dissenting opinion, I've restored the Bagatelle entry. With improved references. To clarify the relevance of the "cultural reference". (As not just throw-away. With the Sunday Times source, in particular, clarifying that the song/lyric is referenced as a baseline for a 'quintessential' Grafton Street...) Guliolopez (talk) 17:01, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 00:05, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that by 1894, several buildings on Grafton Street had broken windows that were patched up with paper? Source: Bennett, Douglas (2005). The Encyclopaedia of Dublin. Gill & Macmillan. ISBN 978-0-717-13684-1. Pages 114-115
  • ALT0a: ... that by 1849, several buildings on Grafton Street had broken windows that were patched up with paper? Source: Bennett, Douglas (2005). The Encyclopaedia of Dublin. Gill & Macmillan. ISBN 978-0-717-13684-1. Pages 114-115
  • ALT1: ... that in 2008, Grafton Street was the fifth most expensive main shopping street in the world? Source: https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20078093.html
  • ALT2b: ... that in 2008, Grafton Street had the fifth highest property rental prices in the world for retailers? Source: https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20078093.html
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/2021 in China

Improved to Good Article status by Ritchie333 (talk), SeoR (talk) and Smirkybec (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 02:58, 4 February 2023 (UTC). Note: As of October 2022, all changes made to promoted hooks will be logged by a bot. The log for this nomination can be found at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Grafton Street, so please watch a successfully closed nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - see below

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Onegreatjoke and Ritchie333: No copyvio, article is neutral, new enough, well-sourced, hook facts verified. I have an issue with each hook. The first hook's year should be 1849, not 1894, per both the article and the source. I find the second hook slightly misleading. To me, "fifth most expensive main shopping street" intiutively reads as its the fifth most expensive street by cost of goods the street sells. Should be written to specify that its the most expensive to rent. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 01:44, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

@PerfectSoundWhatever: How about ALT2 "... that In 2008, Grafton Street was the fifth most expensive main shopping street to rent with rental pricing of €5,621/m2/year?" Onegreatjoke (talk) 15:16, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

The ambiguity is removed, although the "with rental pricing of €5,621/m2/year" part is a bit too long and reduces hookiness (although I'm fine with it). Just need to fix the 1894/49 thing and we're good to go. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 23:58, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

@Onegreatjoke, Ritchie333, and PerfectSoundWhatever: What about rephrasing as ALT2a "... that In 2008, Grafton Street was the fifth most expensive main shopping street where property rents were €5,621/m2/year?" ww2censor (talk) 14:27, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

I still dislike the ambiguity there, as "expensive" could have both meanings and it is only resolved after the hook is finished. How about: "... that in 2008, Grafton Street had the fifth highest property rent prices in the world?" — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 16:59, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Stepping in, as the lead article editor for the GA drive is injured, and time passes, although this item does not age. I offer Alt0a to resolve the year, I think this is uncontroversial, it was really just a tiny typo. And for the other, I offer a consolidated Alt2b per review comments. It's interesting that different people interpret the "expensive" point in different ways, and absolutely we should limit ambiguity. Pinging PerfectSoundWhatever; thanks. SeoR (talk) 10:47, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, approving ALT0a and ALT2b — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 17:20, 16 March 2023 (UTC)