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Title

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*shrugs* I'm open to suggestions. —Lantoka ( talk | contrib) 03:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

how about "temporary diaphram paralysis"?--67.50.233.113 18:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What about "Getting Winded"? It is more concise than the current title. --Eneufeld 18:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To me "getting winded" means getting tired from strenuous exercise, and I've heard a doctor use the phrase as a description for a mild asthma. I don't think that phrase should appear in this article at all. LockeShocke 03:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just a thought, but if we change the title no one will be able to find the article, as no one knows what the phenomenon is called. "Getting the wind knocked out of you" is the exact thing I searched for, word for word. DevinOfGreatness 03:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's what redirects are for? Yeah, I think this isn't exactly a good title for an article. :/ --cuckooman (talk) 05:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

people search the term on Google and find this page. unless you know of a scientific term for it, this is the best title available. Snitch ninja (talk) 01:01, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Proposal

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Merge. with re-direct from Getting Winded. (possible a disambig from Winding)? It stops this being a stub. Mdcollins1984 13:45, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Title

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The discussion up to this point about the title of this article took place at Talk:User Account Control#Merge in Run as administrator. No source has been given that "diaphragm spasm" is the correct term for this concept, and Reswobslc himself (or herself) stated that they made up the term. —Remember the dot (t) 05:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reswobslc requested the speedy deletion of Diaphragm spasm in order to place this article under that title again. —Remember the dot (t) 06:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Um, I made up the title. Not the term. Rather, I should say that I selected the title. Because if you Google "diaphragm spasm", Google knows what you're talking about. ANd if you google "wind knocked out", every page that purports to explain what that means describes the diaphragm muscle spasming, without giving it a specific medical name beyond this. And when I challenged you to do a move, I certainly meant to move it to a more appropriate name, like a medically-accepted word, not to a non-encyclopedic idiomatic slang term that contains the word "you". Reswobslc 06:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So getting the wind knocked out of you is an example of a diaphragm spasm, but a diaphragm spasm does not necessarily mean you've had the wind knocked out of you. This source talks about diaphragm spasms in relation to side stitches.

I wish we had a doctor who could tell us the authoritative answer... —Remember the dot (t) 06:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wholeheartedly agree, and if a doctor says it's been called a Somethingus Whateverus since the time of Julius Caesar, then it shall be changed at once. Hiccups are also a diaphragm spasm, but not of the getting-the-wind-knocked-out-of-you sort. That pretty much sums up how I saw the issue. There's got to be a medical name for it. Just no one here knows it. Reswobslc 08:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Look, why not just turn the page into a disambiguation page, and link to both this page and Hiccup? (Or any other medical conditions that result in spasms?) -- RoninBK T C 11:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yikes, I had to cringe when I wandered onto this page! Even if there's not an appropriate medical term, can we please get the "you" removed from the title? I think we should hold Wikipedia at least to the standards of seventh-grade English. "Having the wind knocked out of oneself," or something like that? It may sound kind of stodgy, but the "you" in this context is just not acceptible in formal writing of any kind. Of course, a redirect could remain for anyone who happened to type it in that way... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.208.120.38 (talk) 23:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The title refers to the idiom. Changing the idiom to sound more formal will only stop people from finding it. Snitch ninja (talk) 01:04, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Length

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How long do they last, on average or at an extreme?

70.248.20.165 (talk) 06:01, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's not critial, hence the unformal term for it. It is generally the sort of thing where you sit down for a minute, though this is only because of the shock of it rather than the effect of not breathing. It's annoying at worst, hit at the bottom of your breath. Humans can easily hold their breath at any stage of breathing, this just forces that. 86.159.62.130 (talk) 21:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unconscious?

When I watch the movie and see the scene of someone getting wind knocked out heavily, the subject fall down unconscious instead of trying to breath heavily. While I know in the movie people are usually and easily knocked unconscious but I still wonder if a hit on upper stomach can cause unconscious, because, I ever got wind knocked out, I know the feeling, that a sudden sock makes me think I am getting unconscious soon (while in fact I recovered pretty quickly). I want to know if this is only a feeling or it physically can make person unconscious like a hit on the head. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.116.125.113 (talk) 03:27, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


It shouldn't cause unconsciousness, but I guess it depends on how strong the impact is. I can't see a punch being capable of this though. I've been hit in that part of the stomach plenty of times and whilst it is extremely unpleasant my breathing has always returned to normal inside of twenty seconds. The article does mention that it can cause anxiety though, presumably due to momentary fear of suffocation. Anxiety can easily cause unconsciousness through it's physical side effects, if the feeling of panic is strong enough. That may have been what you felt, and if it is then it's nothing to worry about.--94.171.184.82 (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

additional theory

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it's also perceived that having the wind knocked out of you is due to exhalation of your RV (residual volume). this causes some of the alveoli to close, creating negative transpulmonary pressure in certain parts of the lung. making initiation of opening the alveoli difficult. normal lung fxn always has positive transpulm. pressure.

i can't find much citation on it, but here's an online book that briefly mentions it and the diaphragm spasm theory. http://books.google.com/books?id=LBLwDtx2_qcC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=why is it hard to breathe wind knocked out of you alveoli&source=bl&ots=SYdQ-iO544&sig=7p1SAdVZRhGFFFchz9adxc6vz8E&hl=en&ei=6868SeXpCIG0sAPHuMQs&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.4.235.17 (talk) 09:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Getting the wind knocked out of you" doesn't sound like a very encyclopedic title.

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Sounds like something you'd see on everything2.com. Roastporkbun (talk) 17:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The word "you" should not be in an encyclopedic article title in this context. Generic you is too casual. 174.116.51.41 (talk) 01:38, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The page is about the idiom, so unless there's a scientific term for the phenomenon the title seems ok Snitch ninja (talk) 00:59, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move 1 (to Diaphragmatic spasm)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved per discussion below. As noted, the suggested title does not match the topic of this article. It might be appropriate to create an article about diaphragmatic spasms, and then merge this one into that one. - GTBacchus(talk) 06:14, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Getting the wind knocked out of you → Diaphragmatic spasm — The current title is completely unsuitable for an encyclopedia article, as evidenced by the discussions on this page. Per WP:MOSMED#Naming conventions, the correct title should be the scientific or recognised medical name. I'm seeking consensus here for a change of title to Diaphragmatic spasm, but others may be able to supply a better alternative. All comments welcome. --RexxS (talk) 22:13, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Support Current title is far too informal, doesn't follow naming conventions, and is just not acceptable diction for the title of an encyclopedia article. This should have been done a long time ago. Tyrol5 [Talk] 20:52, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose Yes the current title isn't great but there does not appear to be a formal medical term so WP:MEDMOS#Naming conventions don't help. "Diaphragmatic spasm" is not equivalent. The difference here is that "Getting the wind knocked out of you" is the term for an injury whereas "diaphragmatic spasm" is the term for an action of the body. Looking on PubMed for "wind knocked out" finds just PMID 10776860 (Karate injuries in children and adolescents). Searching PubMed for "diaphragmatic spasm" finds a mix of articles on a wide range of subjects including post-operative symptoms, hiccups and coughing (which our Diaphragmatic spasm page notes). The content of this article is about the injury rather than the general topic of some body part spasming. So we've managed to write a short article on the injury, which is in contrast to funny bone. There, like here, the injury of "hitting one's funny bone" also has no formal medical equivalent (nobody says "Trauma to the ulnar nerve where it passed over the medial epicondyle of the humerus") but isn't sufficiently interesting to have its own article. I also note this article refers to another injury: charley horse (which I'd call a dead leg). Again, no medical term and an interesting article on all the lay terms used throughout the world. Yet another example is Side stitch. It seems English has lots of informal terms for injuries, and medicine hasn't invented a Greek equivalent for them. So we're left with these article titles that to doctors look a bit unencyclopaedic.
I suggest Getting the wind knocked out as being a little less awkward. Colin°Talk 10:02, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support for move and redirect - I would suggest that most people who search for the term "getting the wind knocked out of you" are looking for the correct term. Ng.j (talk) 06:32, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So what is the correct term? A "diaphragmatic spasm" can be a cough, a hiccup, caused by abdominal surgery or various other things unrelated to an injury received. Indeed, the article that caused RexxS to notice this page (List of signs and symptoms of diving disorders), uses the term "Diaphragmatic spasm" for a spasm caused by oxygen toxicity experienced by divers -- which is quite unrelated to an injury caused by a blow to the abdomen. What perhaps was wanted was for diaphragmatic spasm to change from being a DAB page to a proper article, if someone wants to write it. But is there much to say? It is a spasm of the diaphragm. I suspect a DAB is the correct status. Perhaps, if there isn't really anything to say, then List of signs and symptoms of diving disorders doesn't need a link after all. Colin°Talk 09:54, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The next step up from a DAB is a Set Index, but I don't think that is what we're looking for. I think an expansion of Diaphragmatic spasm is in order, and we can do that by moving/merging the content over, but almost anything is better than the curent name.Ng.j (talk) 18:25, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think disliking the name is a valid reason to merge content into an as-yet unwritten article. And the other forms of diaphragmatic spasm are far more common yet are adequately served by their own articles. This injury is a valid topic for an article. If you feel that it should be just a minor and relatively rare aspect of another topic article then we're really looking at AfD here. And an AfD because the title isn't medical-jargon would fail. Face it, if this had a medical name, nobody would consider merging it into Diaphragmatic spasm. Colin°Talk
But Colin, if it had a medical name, it would be diaphragmatic spasm – or at least the condition would be. I was looking at Diaphragmatic spasm as a condition, and viewed: (1) a blow to the solar plexus; (2) one of the effects of oxygen toxicity; and (3) whatever produces hiccups; as causes of the condition. I think there's an article there to be written, even if it's a summary or overview article. I would have expected to have subsumed this article into it, along with a short section on oxygen toxicity, plus a short summary of Hiccup. I don't know if further research would yield anything more. If you think this article deserves to stand-alone, then I trust your judgement, but my only objection would be the present utterly unencyclopedic name. I'd bet we'd get a result in an AfD to at least move to another title, but I wouldn't want to see this article deleted, of course. DAB pages are really only for navigation, and if we've got something useful to say, we should do our best to at least make an article. --RexxS (talk) 21:00, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Can you find any medical or other quality literature that discusses "diaphragmatic spasm" as an article topic, where the article included the various causes mentioned here? That would give an indication to us that DS deserves an article in its own right. If we can't, then the various causes of DS are probably best left separate, whether we like their names or not. Colin°Talk 22:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt we'll find a source that discusses all of those causes. Diaphragmatic spasm: A neglected cause of dyspnoea and chest pain (Wolf 1994) discusses it as a cause of other conditions. From searching, it seems that it may also arise as a consequence of surgery, Post cardiac surgery diaphragmatic spasm successfully treated with gabapentin (Spoladore 2006), and as a consequence of encephalitis Encephalitic Diaphragmatic Spasm Treated By Phrenicotomy (Speirs 1929). Those are just case studies, but reading the results of the Google search left me with the impression that the phrase "Diaphragmatic spasm" is not uncommon in the literature, and seems to have a well-understood meaning beyond that of 'hiccup'. PubMed isn't working for me right now, but I'll have a look there tomorrow. Do we really need an overview article already in the literature before we can produce our own? --RexxS (talk) 23:39, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Getting the wind knocked out of you" does not have the same meaning as "diaphragmatic spasm". While the content of "Getting the wind knocked out of you" could potentially be merged into "Diaphragmatic spasm", the latter "article" has no content so is not a suitable merge or redirect. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:20, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I should add that "neurogenic shock" has a specific meaning, quite different to the event described in this article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:24, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per User:Colin. "Getting the wind knocked out of you" is evidently not an exact equivalent of "diaphragmatic spasm" and since Wikipedia is not a medical resource, there is no requirement that only formal medical jargon be used. Yes, the current title sounds clumsy but it is an accurate reflection of the article's current content. — AjaxSmack 03:34, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reference text

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The reference to MacAuley, Oxford Handbook of Sport and Exercise Medicine, states: "The Winded Athlete. A blow to the solar plexus, with abdominal muscles relaxed, leaves the athlete temporarily unable to breathe."

I am not able to view the second reference (Furuya, "Neurogenic shock caused by striking on epigastrium"). However neurogenic shock has a specific medical meaning, quite distinct from the injury described in this article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:09, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unreferenced text

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I have removed the unreferenced text. I have provided it below in case anyone is able to justify all or part of with reliable sources. Axl ¤ [Talk] 17:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It can also occur from a strong blow to the back.

When the abdomen is struck, a large difference in pressure occurs across the diaphragm. The diaphragm then stretches, which also stretches the diaphragm's nerves. The resulting mechanical force puts the diaphragm into a muscle spasm, comparable to having a charley horse in the leg. It takes a few seconds for the diaphragm to relax again before breathing can resume normally. Martial artists are often taught to breathe out heavily when struck in the stomach, to minimize this effect. Another method is to use the vocal cords to "groan" while breathing out, which can help one get to breathing normally faster.

Often, the laryngeal muscles contract during diaphragm spasm producing an inspiratory sound known as stridor which can be heard for several cycles as breathing resumes.

Singultus, commonly known as the hiccups, is also a form of diaphragm spasm, although much milder. A singultus episode impairs voluntary breathing control for brief moments (measured in milliseconds) rather than for several seconds.

It may also be referred to as rat gut, getting winded or just winded (though the latter two often refer to mere exercise-induced fatigue).

Title

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Worked for me, at least. I was curious what this condition was, so I Googled "wind knocked out", but the phrase in my head has always been "wind knocked out of you". Article doesn't say much, but I guess it doesn't really need to, at this point. Now I know what's going on; have been curious since I was little! – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 07:31, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Whilst some may search for "getting the wind knocked out of you", and although it is common, I doubt that this is the most expected term with regards to an encyclopedia. The generic you doesn't seem right at all. "Getting the wind knocked out of you" is the result which gets most hits on Google of the terms I've tried, with about 46 600 000 results. "Getting the wind knocked out" has about 7 030 000, but many are still in the form "getting/get/gets the wind knocked out of <pronoun>"; "getting winded" has about 5 710 000 results and "being winded" has about 9 220 000; finally, "wind knocked out -getting-the -gets-the -get-the" has about 4 380 000 results, but what strikes me about this one is that many of the results are not on this topic (thanks to the phrase "wind knocked out of sails").
I suggest "Being winded", as although the term "getting the wind knocked out of you" has more hits, I suspect that this is partly because of people's Googling habits (i.e. the way we choose to search for topics). Although, I do believe it is more common, but only when the (or a) pronoun is included. And although a user above stated that the similar phrase "getting winded" has other meanings, I was not able to find any examples of this.
I am wondering, however, if perhaps regional varieties of English use different phrases more commonly. I'm from Britain, and more specifically Scotland. Although the phrase "getting the wind knocked out of you" is common here, I think (although this is highly subjective) "being winded" is more common. I think that use might also differ within a conversation, perhaps with the topic being introduced as "getting/gets/get the wind knocked out of <pronoun>" and then being referred to as "being/getting winded".
Also, according to the BBC reference, the medical term is "a blunt trauma to the solar plexus".--DrewMek (talk) 00:33, 24 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move 2 (to Blunt trauma to the solar plexus)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa (talk) 22:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Getting the wind knocked out of you → Blunt trauma to the solar plexus – Per my above comment, but considering I did not know about WP:MOSMED#Naming conventions. Other variants could include "Blow" instead of "Blunt trauma" (per this above comment), or "celiac plexus" instead of "solar plexus". DrewMek (talk) 16:42, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose per previous discussion. This article is about the sensation, the effect, not the cause. "Blunt trauma" is just medical jargon. The "solar plexus" isn't the part of the anatomy that receives the "blunt trauma" - it is the abdomen. The BBC is not an authority on technical language or medical terms. There's a reason why searching for your proposed title turns up only the BBC article and a handful of pages that have picked up on it: they just made it up. Colin°Talk 17:59, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per prior discussion as well, and agree with Colin. This is certainly not the medical name, nor the common name for this. Tiggerjay (talk) 18:51, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment:" How about "Getting one's wind knocked out"? I find the "of you" part kind of troublesome. It's not about you – it's about anyone. Referring to "you" is too informal in tone. (Just a thought.) —BarrelProof (talk) 04:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

This page should be 'Transient diaphragmatic lock'

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'Lock' in this case is not exactly scientific, but it shows that wind-knocking of humans causes the diaphragm to lock for seconds, even minutes. When you breathe water, you WILL choke and die. I nearly died one time in a swimming accident where I was absolutely nuts not to surface and breathe. Well, I could not surface in time and I inhaled water. Just a tidbit from JJhashisreasons (talk) 00:04, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just got the wind knocked out, still hurts 20 mins after.

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Don't think the pain gets over in 1-2 mins in a lot of cases. 2600:6C40:287F:55FE:ACB4:9866:C16C:A478 (talk) 02:40, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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