Talk:Freeter

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 14 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Космическийкот.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Definition

The definition in this article is fundamentally incorrect; "freeter" does not generally include the unemployed, which are referred to as shitsugyosha or NEET (niito). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.177.181 (talk) 12:17, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

yes.. most dictionaries and the japanese page agree that it doesn't include the unemployed Harrydiv321 (talk) 14:39, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Tone

This article feels overly negative and judgmental in tone about the condition of freeters, even when the labor department in Japan itself identifies one type as being "dream seeking" and looking outside the normal employment system for life satisfaction. There are a lot of assumptions about "normalcy" and how freeters are not living up to it here. In addition, Japan has a national health insurance program so lack of health benefits is not really a problem for freeters like it would be in the US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.177.181 (talk) 12:14, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Etymology

Umm, isn't it quite obvious that the etymology is 'fleeter', as in their jobs being 'fleeting' (short-term/quick) and/or that they 'fleet between jobs'? Fleeter　→　フリーター. 82.182.171.126 (talk) 23:35, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Ask anyone in Japan and they will tell you the etymology is "free arbeiter", which is supported by http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/freeter (not much of a source, but it's the only one cited) The reference to "freeloader" should be deleted. "Freeloader" not supported by the given source and it's plain wrong. The term 'furiirooda-' is simply not a term borrowed into japanese as there are several native words that fill its purpose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.103.201.51 (talk) 16:03, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Family Unit As Standard of Value Presumption

"The low income makes it difficult for freeters to start a family".

This statement is made from of a particular worldview about social units and their appropriateness relative to the individual. Without a source, the statement injects bias.

If it is acceptable to make this statement, one must also include such statements as "The low income makes it difficult for freeters to buy Lamborginis" or "The low income makes it difficult for freeters to afford to eat watermelon every day.". Why is "starting a family" given a greater weight of expectation than any other choice an individual could make?

To elaborate, the statement assumes a desire (in this case "to start a family") on the part of freeters that they may not have.

What is more likely is that many assume a freeter lifestyle *because* they don't have desire to "start a family" or assume traditionally expected social roles. Since they only need to take responsibility for themselves, their choice to take modest salaries reflects this expectation. They feel no obligation to satisfy a social construct which they may view as something thrust upon them as a duty, outside of their own volition and chosen values.

Indeed, part of the motivation to become a freeter is the fact that individuals, men in particular like the soushoku danshi, have no desire whatsoever to start a family, maintain romatic relationships, or to have financial obligations to others beyond their own choosing. So the choice to avoid, for example the expected unpaid overtime hours of being a salaryman is for many of these men, simply a manifestation of taking responsibility for their own life, and their own life only.

While some may simply get lumped into the "drop-out" category, it is likely that most freeters are qualified to enter other employment it is just that those other occupations fail the individuals cost/benefit analysis when it comes to judging the stress and duties of whatever prospective career. In other words, once the social standard of "the family unit" is rejected by men, men are freed from the stress of the social role of "provider" which is a major cause of Karōshi.

Considering recent changes to Japanese_employment_law the actions of men in particular to become freeters seems quite rational. The changes regarding gender to the law were premised on the notion of discrimination against women, which was viewed wrong based on the premise that women are just as capable of men in the workplace. Since the government of Japan assumes this is so, it is curious why they consider the male-dominated group of freeters and the soushoku danshi as dangerous to the economic health of the nation. After all, for each man giving up his role of provider and living a modest life within his means, leaves one corresponding woman free and empowered to take the kind of employment that would have otherwise supposedly been denied to her. This is what was intended by the changes to the law, was it not? So what's to worry about?

Could it be that some statements are for political convenience, and that there are other hidden premises which are not politically correct to openly espouse?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.218.46.84 (talk) 07:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC) 

Freelancer?

Does the term "freelancer" have a different meaning in Japan or is this just a mistake? In my experience freelancers are generally independent workers who are skilled enough in their fields to make very respectable money outside of the umbrella of a company, quite another thing entirely from the freeter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.33.32.120 (talk) 17:06, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Yep, makes sense. Freeters are people who opt out of the fulltime employment umbrella (Most of Japans social system is based on that). Early this was mostly a concious choice to live a more free and flexible live on ones terms and not be married to a employer. But more and more people find it difficult to get into fulltime employment so the choice is very often not actually existent. The term stuck. It was always kind of anti-social. You can be well payed as a freeter, but often enough it just means you operate at the fringes of society. 82.16.22.188 (talk) 13:49, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the WP:DUBIOUS template based on the comment above as well as the time passed after the motion. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 23:31, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

stats

not 10 mil. http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/ -> http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/dl/Overview_eng_04.pdf "Number of Freeter was 2.17 million and peaked in 2003. After 2003, it had decreased for 5 years continuously however it was increasing for 3 years. It was 1.76 million in 2012 and 40 thousand decreased compare to previous year. Number of NEET has been approximately 0.6 million since 2002. It was 0.63 million in 2012."173.8.241.30 (talk) 19:42, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Speaking of stats, isn't this sentence sort of mathematically nonsensical: "The average age of Freeters is within the range of 15 to 34 years old." An average is a single value. Giving a range is typically what is done when an average is not known. Can this sentence be changed?

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Bibliography

Cook, Emma E. Expectations of Failure: Maturity and Masculinity for Freeters in Contemporary Japan. Social Science Japan Journal Vol. 16, No. 1, pp 29–43 2013.

Bibliography for coming edits with more sources soon. Questions, comments, concerns are appreciated.

Космическийкот (talk) 00:08, 25 October 2020 (UTC)Космическийкот

Suggestions for sources that could be used to improve this article

Hello! Seeing as this article currently only has one source, I thought I would provide some suggestions for potential additional sources.

Julia Obinger's paper "Working on the Margins: Japan's Precariat and Working Poor," published in the Electronic Journal of Contemporary Japanese Studies on February 25, 2009 is an easily accessible primer on Japan's working poor and part-time laborers which can easily be found online here: Working on the Margins

Simultaneously, it might be worth taking a gander at Carl Cassegard's article "Let Us Live! Empowerment and the Rhetoric of Life in the Japanese Precarity Movement," positions: east asian cultures critique 22, no. 1 (Winter 2014): 41-69. It covers the variety of rhetoric and positions in the General Freeter Union, and provides a valuable look into the views of actual freeters. I have no link for this one, but I do have a doi: 10.1215/10679847-2383849

I might pop back in to edit the page in a bit, but I'm kind of in a time crunch right now.

Thank you!

Lazer Raptor (talk) 00:20, 4 December 2020 (UTC)