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Archive 1←Archive 3Archive 4Archive 5Archive 6

Picture of Shaw

I think one of those should be included in the article also, since he originally portrayed Anakin.--E tac (talk) 04:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Revenge of the Sith

The last two paragraphs of the Revenge of the Sith section refer to the actions of Darth Vader. If we really must keep the two articles separate, then this information shouldn't be in the Anakin Skywalker article, but I wouldn't want to move it until it's been discussed.--Codenamecuckoo (talk) 12:57, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I don´t think, it is a problem, because the time between Mace Windu´s death and the suit were really a transition phase. However I admit, it could be shortened.87.174.193.235 (talk) 21:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

hes also very cute —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.45.172 (talk) 19:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I disagree, once Darth Sidious says, "Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth... Vader!" the character played by Hayden Christensen is no longer Anakin Skywalker, but Darth Vader. He may answer to Anakin Skywalker, but he is still officially Darth Vader, so assuming the people not wanting to merge the articles of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader get their way, then this article should end for Revenge of the Sith at Mace Windu's death, and not mention anything else for Anakin Skywalker until he throws Darth Sidious into the Death Star II's power core, in Return of the Jedi. But of course, I support a merge of the articles.

Question

How did Skywalker get that scar on him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rebelfleet101 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

In a lightsaber fight, a Sith aspirant scarred him. User:Gnmng Jreck


Infobox(es)

If this is to be a genuine merge, then it seems inappropriate to maintain two character infoboxes. Jhenderson (et al.) -- any objection? --EEMIV (talk) 15:30, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I have done all I can do to improve it. Now it's your turn and then I will see how I will feel about it. Jhenderson777 (talk) 16:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Structure

I'm taking a lunch break, but FYI I think later today I'm going to try to 1) truncate much of the depictions sections and 2) rearrange it to reflect real-world chronology, i.e. start with original trilogy and work "back" to his masking, then move on to EU. I'll use Palpatine (FA) as a bit of a guideline for how to focus and develop this chunk. --EEMIV (talk) 15:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

That's great. To be honest the articles weren't that good when seperated in the first place and nothing has hardly changed that wasn't already in the article except for the images. So it's good to see that somebody's taking their time to make it better. Jhenderson777 (talk) 16:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Closed. The result was Merge. Jhenderson777 (talk) 14:30, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Why are there two pages for this character? We have a Darth Vader and an Anakin Skywalker page, this doesn't make sense since they are the same person. Darth Vader is just a title he has gained after becoming a sith lord. Darth Sidious's real name is Palpatine, but we don't create two pages for him either... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elwood1992 (talk • contribs) 15:41, 10 May 2010 (UTC) I don't know why there is 2 pages for Palpatine(Darth Sidious) and Anakin Skywalker. 10:59 29 December 2013 It ally doesn't make any sense as to why the same character should have two different pages, just because they have different avatars in the series. It's essential to have one article to ensure some continuity whle explaining his transition from Jedi knight to bad guy. Ilov90210 (talk) 19:06, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

They are two completely different characters between the first and second trilogies. Regardless, I came here to move your talk to the bottom of the page and fix your merge templates. SpigotWho? 17:06, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean by "different characters"? They are clearly the same person. Perhaps Darth Vader supressed some of his memories and/or his former personality, but that is a psychological process seen in many people who have had a traumatic expierence of some sort. Either way it does not matter, this is a wikipedia page for a person not for an icon and therefore it should capture his whole life not just his years as a jedi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.119.110.77 (talk) 13:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I say, merge them. On the Star Wars wikia, they're the same page.--24.149.255.225 (talk) 19:39, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I would keep them separate, although they are the same person, the identities of each is vastly different. Dark567 (talk) 19:44, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


I would keep them separate. To borrow from old Ben "...The good man I knew was gone... Darth VAder betrayed and murdered your father. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.35.224.63 (talk) 17:10, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I would be in favour of a merge. They are in fact one and the same character, and neither page is "complete" as the journey from "Anakin" to "Vader" and back to "Anakin" is one story about the same person. To me, it's simply logical that this merge should take place. Dphilp75 (talk) 04:27, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I disagree. In the fictional context of the storyline, Anakin and Vader are separate. George Lucas himself implies that in the dialogue and the Episode VI scene where Vader is unmasked. User:Leader Vladimir
I'm uncertain how you can disagree with Vader and Anakin being the same person, unless you are referring to them as alter egos of each other. They *ARE* the same person, and Anakin's "transformation" in to Vader and back to Anakin is all in the context of a story.
To me, it's the same as Jacen Solo and Darth Caedus, Jacen's story continued through his fall to the dark side, and even as Darth Caedus, he is, at the same time, still Jacen Solo.
If Vader were not still Anakin, why would Luke have been so convinced he could still redeem him? If Vader had in fact "killed" Anakin, why would there "still be good in him"? Dphilp75 (talk) 17:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps if it could be merged they can be moved here. Jhenderson777 (talk) 20:09, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Keep them 'separated' because they represent "two characters" in the series. I think of it like Anakin had split personality, two completely different persona. Volbeatfan (talk) 04:50, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Keep separate. It's clearly established that Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader are two different personas, despite being the same person. --PopCulturalTX (talk) 18:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Look at it. He's the same person, it's the same persona. Maybe none of you got this but the Darth Vader persona is just a torn up Anakin Skywalker persona. In fact, it starts to transition into the Darth Vader style in Revenge of the Sith.
If you guys still argue it to be two separate persona, then have a section called personality, it's in everything.
How many personalities does Hulk have? 3 or 4. We don't have separate articles called Devil Hulk, Grey Hulk, Hulk, Bruce Banner. It doesn't make sense because they're the same people even if they have different personalities. This is, as you say it is, two personalities. So if we don't have 4 pages on Hulk, why 2 on Darth Vader. 4 is bigger than Hulk. Even though one form of Hulk has appeared more than the other, they've still appeared long enough to have pages out of them. So if you want to keep this article separate to Darth Vader's, then do the same to Hulk.
Merge it.--Schmeater (talk) 00:21, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Instead of viewing it as if they are the same in the fictional universe, how about we view it from the perspective we should, an out-of-universe encyclopedic one? Anakin and Darth Vader have very different development and creation information, and their reception and cultural impact is certainly entirely separate. Darth Vader has had more of an impact on culture, and this reception and impact is very different for each character. かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 14:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Keep separate. See Clark Kent for precedent. Anakin and Dart Vader are two very separate persons, sharing one body. Sith Lord 13 (talk) 12:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Merge. They are the same person, but two vastly different identities. Nevertheless, the change is personality is part of the character's own history; therefore the history of Anakin and the history of Vader should be seperated, but within the same article. Geeky Randy (talk) 06:15, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Keep separate. The iconic armored and masked figure of Darth Vader has a cultural reach beyond the films, the discussion of which is irrelevant to an article of the fallen Jedi, Anakin Skywalker. 72.49.43.222 (talk) 20:30, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

merge. its comparable to someone changing there name. there still the same person. or maybe changing there name and haveing extreme plastic surgury to look differnt. 69.115.204.217 (talk) 13:23, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Keep Seperate. If for any reason, the lengthy material for both characters. Annakin serves as the name for the character for ONLY the last three movies, the prequel to the first three movies which focus on what he did as Darth Vader, NOT as Annakin. He only became Annakin again after he died saving Luke from Emperor Palpatine. Besides that more than one person played both Annakin and Darth Vader. Rhatsa26X (talk) 22:03, 26 July 2010 (CDT)

Merge. A new title doesn't mean that there is a new character. They are one in the same. There aren't two pages for Queen Elizabeth II and Princess Elizabeth, since she is one in the same.--Jojhutton (talk) 16:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

MERGE! For all of you who say keep separate, because they are two separate characters, then split the Anakin's article into "Young Anakin Skywalker" "Padawan Anakin Skywalker" "General Skywalker" "Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker" "Darth Vader Pre-Armor" etc. It's an all or nothing arguement, either make many articles on the different variationsof this character, or do what Wookieepedia has done and make it ONE FREAKIN ARTICLE! It's not that hard to figure out! Look at Gollum's article. It contains information on his formal self Smeagol, as well, but should that article be split, simply because there are two names for two separate personalities? No, because they are the same hobbit, no matter how you look at it. By the way, if these articles remain separate, then Anakin's shouldn't be allowed to mention anything between Mace Windu's death and Emperor Palpatine's death, with Darth Vader's should only be allowed to mention things in between those two events, because once Sidious say, "Henseforth, you shall be known as Darth... Vader!" that character is no longer Anakin Skywalker, only Darth Vader. He may respond to being called Anakin, but after Sidious' proclamation, that name no longer has any meaning for him. Same with Sidious' death. Once that character decides to turn on his master to protect his son, Darth Vader is no more and is re-replaced by Anakin Skywalker, so the way I see this is that it's an all or nothing issue either make Anakin's article 100% Anakin 0%Vader and Vader's article 100%Vader 0% Anakin, or merge the two to avoid any confusion on this character.

Merge: They are the same character. Both articles are far too long and plot driven as it is so length of article shouldn't be a dissuader to merging. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 16:55, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
For all those that said merging. Think about how hard it is to put the two together. You are going to have to do a lot of remodifications before merging. Jhenderson777 (talk) 20:15, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Closed and done! I have done some remodifications on a sandbox because I knew it would have be a tough one as stated above. The consensus was to merge and it is now merged. Thank you for your cooperations. Jhenderson777 (talk) 00:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Edit warring?

I have been accused of edit warring on this article.[1][2] Is there anyone else who feels that this is true? No diffs were provided, so I am not sure what this person is talking about. 98.82.1.253 (talk) 03:25, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I suppose an appropriate warning, and perhaps I should've had one directed at me, too ;-). Regardless, the question of which article to use in the article seems to have evaporated. No worries. --EEMIV (talk) 01:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I know you're kidding, but not everyone else here does, so I'm not joining you in the smile right now. But thanks anyway. 98.82.1.253 (talk) 02:01, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I didn't notice you edit warring in this article's history. But who am I to judge. Jhenderson777 (talk) 16:28, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved by rough consensus. Arbitrarily0 (talk) 12:25, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Anakin Skywalker → Darth Vader — Darth Vader is definitely the more well known form of this character among the general public and has wider name recognition. Prior to the release of episode I the name Anakin Skywalker had almost no recognition and the Darth Vader name has certainly had a few more decades to become established. If we do indeed consider these the same character I would suggest renaming the article on grounds of recognizability and WP:COMMONNAME Solid State Survivor (talk) 14:51, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Changed to support due to argument of least surprise and most commonly accepted name in out of universe material Carl Sixsmith (talk) 20:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
18 – the first film I saw was The Phantom Menace, I only saw the original trilogy later on. Even among children today, I am sure the Darth Vader identity is much better known, due to its continuing influence and iconic value in popular culture. City of Destruction 23:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Darth Vader is by far the most common name in real life; the Vader personality is much more recognizable and has had much more impact on culture. Some evidence: The examples in the "In popular culture" section of this article are almost entirely about Vader, except for two sentences which mention Anakin. There are currently 282 articles linking to Anakin Skywalker and 540 linking to Darth Vader. A Google search (of English-language pages without the word Wikipedia and with quote marks around the phrase) returns 616,000 results for "Anakin Skywalker" and 4,370,000 for "Darth Vader". So from a real-world perspective, the Anakin sections of this article mostly serve as an interesting backstory to the well-known and iconic villain that is Darth Vader. Brian the Editor (talk) 02:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Oppose - all four sources cited in the lede sentence, identifying Anakin Skywalker as the main character of the film saga, refer to...Anakin Skywalker. Not cited in the article, but Lucas in two of the DVD commentaries also says (paraphrasing the one I heard a few nights ago) that the saga focuses on Anakin's rise and fall. Additionally, while I appreciate that "Darth Vader" has cachet as a cultural icon, but most of the scholarly material cited in the article refers to the Skywalker character. Gave it some more thought, and I think Darth Vader is the more likely search term and the identity of the subject as it was initially established. I hope a rename will help diminish the fervor for an unmerge. --EEMIV (talk) 20:51, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Addtional Comments Thanks everyone for contributing to this discussion. I think it would be usefull if we tried to follow WP:TITLE and WP:WAF guidlines when thinking about what to title of this article. Under WP:TITLE the two most important criteria for titling an article are Recognizability and Naturalness - the idea being that the ideal title for any article will be the one that a reader is most likely to look up and that title should confirm in the reader that the article is a about the topic they were looking for. Darth Vader is the name that clearly has greater perception among the general public - it is a name that people are more likely to look up (for instance I know many people who have never seen any of these moves who know who Darth Vader is but are clueless on the name Anakin Skywalker), and leading those who arent familiar with the particulars of the story of the Star Wars franchise to an article titled Anakin Skywalker would probably confuse them and lead them to doubt that the article is about the subject they were looking for information on. It appears to me that the best arguments in defense of keeping the title Anakin Skywalker argue that this title is more acurate since it describes the character at all points in the storyline. Unfortunately I feel these arguements are afflicted by an in universe perspective in their reasoning; as a general use encylopedia it doesnt matter what is the more acurate name within the story confines of the fictional universe but rather what name serves the more general purpose. Beyond this, WP:WAF urges against writing about things "by their fictional chronology, rather than the actual order they were published." We should make important note the the name "Darth Vader" first appears in the oiginal 1977 film, and that the name "Anakin Skywalker" is never used in the franchise until 1983's Return of the Jedi - and even then it is always used in the past tense as part of Darth Vader's backstory. Considering that Darth Vader is the name primarily understood by the public, that it is the first published name of the character, and that the character was known exclusively by that name (at least in major works) for the first 6 years of its existence I feel it is a better title. Solid State Survivor (talk) 23:31, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Question: There are excellent arguments for both sides here. Why can't we employ WP:IAR and move the article to Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader or Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker? And obviously we can have redirects taking Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader to whichever title we choose. 98.82.196.213 (talk) 07:55, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
To be honest I created an section on this talk page to purpose this to be moved to the redirection of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader but I then deleted it soon after. Jhenderson777 14:00, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support UPDATED, changed per AjaxSmack. Geeky Randy (talk) 17:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC) Opposed for merely the sake of simplicity. Anakin Skywalker is the character's real name, therefore should be the title of the article. Secondly, Anakin Skywalker is a name used throughout the entire series, while Darth Vader is only used in episodes IV-VI. The popularity argument is true—Darth Vader is way a way more popular name for Anakin Skywalker than his real name—but isn't that what redirects are for? Geeky Randy (talk) 17:50, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I would support undoing the merge. 98.82.196.213 (talk) 13:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The consensus to merge is opened back up. I suggest to those who didn't vote on it to be merged to vote for it this time. Jhenderson777 14:27, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Even though I am the one that did the merge. I kind of agree with you. Even though it is the same person. They are both two popular identities of the same character that are worth talking about on their own. Kind of like (Clark Kent/Superman) and (Devil/Satan/Lucifer) But I closed it with the merge because that's what the people wanted. The ones that wanted the undoing should have voted too when you had the chance. That's kind of why I created an different consensus since there could be other people that didn't have the chance to speak out. Jhenderson 777 18:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The mechanics of the merge process attracts less wider input than that of the move process. — AjaxSmack 20:45, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I know that. And I think I made it clear who I replied to then. To the people who supported the undoing. Jhenderson 777 20:51, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support The first film, which could remain the best known, describes him simply as Darth Vader. The current title is taking too-much of an in-universe approach. The slash title is definitely a no-no. PatGallacher (talk) 16:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
This is about changing the title of the article, not splitting them again. You missed out on that one. Doy! Geeky Randy (talk) 19:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I think we should do this if choosing between these two names be the problem. Jhenderson 777 18:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps we should just name articles with sequential numbers, since we can always create a redirect from any plausible search terms. Powers T 21:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result is oppose move. Jhenderson 777 18:07, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Darth Vader → Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader — In the last discussion there was no consensus to move the article to Darth Vader, the debate was in stalemate. If we move the article to Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, it would be a better name, as Anakin was not called Darth Vader in first three episodes and he died as Anakin in the sixth episode. Kavas (talk) 12:36, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Oppose, and it's clear there was no consensus for this name in the just-closed discussion. Powers T 13:00, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment Just closed discussion was on moving the article to Darth Vader, and only 2 editors commented on moving it to Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. Hence, we should try a new WP:RM to see whether people would choose this name. Kavas (talk) 13:11, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Darth Vader is by far the best-known name for the character. YLee (talk) 14:45, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose per WP:UCN; "Darth Vader" is by far the most established name for this character. Also close, not only because a prior RM has only just ended, but because there appears to be an ongoing discussion to unmerge the two articles. This latest discussion seems rather unconstructive, IMO. PC78 (talk) 15:15, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose since Darth Vader is the best-known name, and Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is a clumsy mashup. Erik (talk | contribs) 17:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The characters name is Anakin Skywalker, his alter ego is Darth Vader. I prefer the actual characters name over the alter ego myself.--Jojhutton (talk) 17:39, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose - completely and unnecessarily clunk title. Let's snowball-close this discussion. --EEMIV (talk) 20:43, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment I am one of those editors that commented on it but I am not sure that a slashed name is acceptable. (There seems to be some exceptions: The Mutant Agenda/Mutant's Revenge) But if it is acceptable, I suppose I would Support it just for it to be neutral about what's the common name. Jhenderson 777 15:31, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose This title appears to me to be inconsistent with policy presented in WP:TITLE. In my view it fails 3 of the 5 general criteria of naturalness, consistency, and most notably conciseness. WP:TITLE tells us that "An article can only have one title" - if we really feel it is necessary to give this article two titles (albeit combined with by a slash) perhaps the underlying issue is that this topic is better suited to two articles. Solid State Survivor (talk) 09:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose for various reasons mentioned above. I could see it at either Darth or Anakin, not both. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:36, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment Solid State Survivor, you are misunderstanding WP:TITLE. If X is a name, and Y is a name, then X/Y is another name. See Imia/Kardak. This article is on islands on Aegean Sea, there is dispute over sovereignty between Greece and Turkey, the article is named Imia/Kardak using both names. This is an important part of the neutrality of the article. Using slashes where necessary is a WP policy, you don't have to seperate articles. For example, the article on the city of Gdansk cannot be named Gdansk/Danzig as the city is in Poland clearly, but Imia/Kardak is called Imia/Kardak because the title should use both Imia and Kardak due to WP:NPOV. If you have to use slashes in order to abide by WP rules, then use them. Darth Vader is not the correct name of the character as this name is not mentioned in episodes 1 and 2, per "Precision" the name should be Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker. Also note that inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined by reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more common. "For example, tsunami is preferred over the arguably more common, but less accurate tidal wave." Darth Vader is a less accurate name for the article as the saga is centered on Anakin, only in episodes 4 and 5 (and -except the final- Episode 6) use Darth Vader name. For consistency, what about Palpatine (not Darth Sidious or Emperor), Count Dooku (not Darth Tyrannus), Obi Wan Kenobi (not Obi Wen Kenobi, the name in the 4th episode)? So, Anakin Skywalker is better than Darth Vader for consistency. Shorter titles are often preferred to longer ones, not always. This is a special case, Darth Vader is the same person as Anakin, in episode 2 you can see he did genocidial acts, there is no reason to seperate the article. If you don't seperate the article, you cannot mention Darth Vader as a character in episodes 1 and 2. So, Darth Vader cannot be a name if the article is not seperated. Thus, Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is a better name due to WP:TITLE if you want to use Darth Vader in title. Kavas (talk) 18:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Comment. With respect, I think it is you who are misunderstanding Wikipedia policy here. Both WP:TITLE and WP:NPOV clearly state that an article can only have one title, and discourage against the use of alternatives in titles such as what you are proposing here. X/Y is not "another name", it is an invented name. Also, comparing a naming dispute for the article of a fictional character on Wikipedia to a real world dispute such as Imia/Kardak is a bit of a stretch, to say the very least. PC78 (talk) 22:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
      • Comment. Yes, it is an invented name but this is acceptable as a name because it is invented by authors of sources on Star Wars, and not by Wikipedia editors, due to WP:NOR. Here are some links from Google books. Let's begin.
  1. "http://books.google.com/books?id=PB57P_dOF7EC&pg=PA62&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  2. " http://books.google.com/books?id=PB57P_dOF7EC&pg=PA62&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  3. " http://books.google.com/books?id=npIsZV7grboC&pg=PA218&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  4. "http://books.google.com/books?id=pY6GAAAAIAAJ&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBQ
  5. "http://books.google.com/books?id=gJ98yvAmxM0C&pg=PA25&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEsQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  6. "http://books.google.com/books?id=ePbQbDbg9hkC&pg=PA115&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  7. "http://books.google.com/books?id=5cFZAAAAMAAJ&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=S6d_TM-eFZWG4QbTyNHTCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQ6AEwADgK
  8. "http://books.google.com/books?id=HrYGhLXC_mkC&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=S6d_TM-eFZWG4QbTyNHTCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCgQ6AEwATgK

You can find at least 43 sources that call the character AnakinSkywalker/DarthVader from Google Books. AnakinSkywalker/DarthVader is a name that refer to this character according to these sources. WP:TITLE does not discourage against the use of alternatives in titles such as what I am proposing here. Imia/Kardak example clearly shows that you can use slashes in article titles and this is not against the policy that WP articles can have only one name. This is because Imia/Kardak is a name of the islands as well Imia or Kardak, according to sources. So, you can use X/Y form if the sources use it as a name. Besides, The Mutant Agenda/Mutant's Revenge shows slashes can be used outside the real world. So, there can be three names: Anakin Skywalker, Darth Vader, and Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. Anakin Skywalker is the name of the character in episodes 1, 2, 3, 6. This name's role can be expanded to episodes 4 and 5, but Darth Vader is what Episodes 4 and 5 is about. So, Darth Vader is a name of the character in episodes 3, 4, 5, 6. Darth Vader would not be an accurate name for the character for episodes 1 and 2, because he is never called Darth Vader in these episodes. In an article on Episode 2, can you write this sentence: The main character is "Darth Vader". No. The main character is Anakin Skywalker. Is naming the character in Episode 2 as Anakin Skywalker is "in-universe style"? Certainly, no. This shows Darth Vader is not the named used for the character in the saga. The most popular name is Darth Vader (37,000 hits in Google Books), but this is never used in Episode 2. Suppose it is decided that the articles are not split, is there any chance that Darth Vader can refer to the character in Episode 2? No. This means only "Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader", the least popular name can be the name of the character in the saga. Note that, WP:TITLE states that "The ideal title for an article will also satisfy the other criteria outlined above; ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined by reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more common". Indeed, Darth Vader is clearly inaccurate for Episode 1 and 2 (and using Anakin for an article on Episode 1 or 2 is NOT a "in-universe style"), hence it is also not accurate for the saga. Then, the least common name is the only alternative for the character if the articles are not split. Kavas (talk) 14:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

  • WP:TITLE: "An article can only have one title". WP:NPOV: "A Wikipedia article must have one definitive name... Article names including alternatives are discouraged, examples of such names are: Derry/Londonderry, Aluminium/Aluminum, and Flat Earth (Round Earth)". I'm not going to argue these points with you because they're there in black and white. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't have such a title if exceptional circumstances demand it, but I don't think that this is such a situation. I commented on Imia/Kardak above; The Mutant Agenda/Mutant's Revenge is about two cartoon epidodes with different titles -- there is no alternative title, and perhaps the article should be split. Your Google Books links do not change the fact that "Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader" is not the common name for this character. If anything, your arguments support the idea that what we need here are two seperate articles: one for Darth Vader as portrayed in the original trilogy, and one for Anakin Skywalker as portrayed in the prequel trilogy. PC78 (talk) 15:15, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
    • WP:TITLE: "An article can only have one title. When this title is a name, significant alternative names for the topic should be mentioned in the article, usually in the first sentence or paragraph (see Lead section)." However, if this double name is really in use in books or practical life, this means article's title should be a double name. See Disentis/Mustér, Sils im Engadin/Segl, Biel/Bienne, Imia/Kardak. That does not mean the title of Geneva article should be Geneva/Genf by using alternative names, because Geneva/Genf is not in use. "These may include alternative spellings, longer or shorter forms, historical names, significant names in other languages, etc" In the list, fictional characters with alternative names is not listed. Sorry for the repeat, these links show that "Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader" is in use, not that it's the most common name. Kavas (talk) 11:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
  1. "http://books.google.com/books?id=PB57P_dOF7EC&pg=PA62&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  2. " http://books.google.com/books?id=PB57P_dOF7EC&pg=PA62&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  3. " http://books.google.com/books?id=npIsZV7grboC&pg=PA218&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  4. "http://books.google.com/books?id=pY6GAAAAIAAJ&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBQ
  5. "http://books.google.com/books?id=gJ98yvAmxM0C&pg=PA25&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEsQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  6. "http://books.google.com/books?id=ePbQbDbg9hkC&pg=PA115&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=gqZ_TNrZAdmQ4gaH-vjxCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&f=false
  7. "http://books.google.com/books?id=5cFZAAAAMAAJ&q="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&dq="anakin skywalker/darth vader"&hl=en&ei=S6d_TM-eFZWG4QbTyNHTCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCQQ6AEwADgK
  • Comment WP:NPOV: "A Wikipedia article must have one definitive name... Article names including alternatives are discouraged, examples of such names are: Derry/Londonderry, Aluminium/Aluminum, and Flat Earth (Round Earth)". Does WP:NPOV apply to a fictional character? Using alternative names is discouraged in the context of WP:NPOV. If Derry/Londonderry was the official name, then the article's title would be this like Biel/Bienne. The idea in using alternative names like Derry/Londonderry is that one would think Derry is a nationalist POV, Londonderry is a nationalist POV, Derry/Londonderry is a NPOV name. This idea is discouraged, "Alternative article names should not be used as means of settling POV disputes among Wikipedia contributors". Note that both Derry and Londonderry are correct names, you can use the common one. Alternative names as in the Aluminium/Aluminum example shows that using names in different languages is also discouraged. This does not apply to this article, unless it was an article in the context of WP:NPOV, such that Republicans would favor Anakin and monarchists would favor Darth Vader. Even if the rule applies to all articles, Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is indeed a name in use, it could be a title. Since other names like Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker do not apply to certain episodes (for example the character is never called Darth Vader in Episode 2), the suitable title can be Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. Kavas (talk) 11:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
    • You admit that "Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader" is a name by writing that it is not the common name for this character. This is correct. If "Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader" was the most common name, there would be no debate. Yes, Darth Vader is the most common name, but it is not used in Episodes 1 and 2. What is the name of the character Hayden Christiansen played in Episode 3? Is it Darth Vader? It is "Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader". Thank you. Kavas (talk) 11:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
      • It could be said that this character does not have a individual name either. Why do you think it was so debatable it is for what this character's name should be in this article or wether to merge or unmerge. Anakin Skywalker is the name when he was the hero and Darth Vader is the name of the villain. Nothing helps us know what's his individual name is. There is two seperate aliases sort of like a split personality of two different characters in one. The only thing that helps us is that we know that Darth Vader is the more well known alias. But at the same time the movie proved that Anakin is more of his true identity. Jhenderson 777 18:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
        • So you both admit that Darth Vader is the most common name for this character? It seems then that we are all in agreement here. Your in-universe arguments don't really hold much weight. What's important is which name is better established in the real world, which name the average reader—not the average fanboy—will be looking for, and that is quite clearly Darth Vader. PC78 (talk) 11:30, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
          • I wouln't say Darth Vader is the common name anymore. So far in his adaptions he has kept on being used as Anakin Skywalker so that can change really easy in the future. And please I never argued, I just explained. I hardly agree with changing it to the slash name either. Jhenderson 777 17:56, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose because as I recall Darth Vader claims to be Anakin Skywalker and this claim occurs late in the series. Putting this in the article title amounts to a spoiler. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 03:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Per WP:TITLE and WP:UCN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jgp (talk • contribs)
  • Oppose per many of the comments above. Darth Vader is the character who's ingrained in popular culture. Anakin Skywalker is his original name, but that was the name from "before he was famous". I'm probably not explaining myself very well, but I definitely believe that Darth Vader is the correct name for the article. -- WORMMЯOW  13:32, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment Then, Darth Vader is a name of the character in Episode 2? Kavas (talk) 11:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Comment The alias Anakin Skywalker is used in Episode 1, 2 and 3 and at the end of 6 and in The Clone Wars movie and television series. Darth Vader is used in the episodes at the end of episode 3 and in the episodes 4,5,6. Jhenderson 777 18:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I can think of two examples right now: Lord Voldemort (real/original name "Tom Riddle") or Sailor Moon (character) (real/original name "Usagi Tsukino"). Though Anakin Skywalker is notable, I think that Darth Vader, which is the first portrayal of the character, and even more notable, is the correct name of the article. --LoЯd ۞pεth 05:39, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose- The proposal is awkward, and more people will reconize "Darth Vader" than "Anakin Skywalker", mainly people who aren't necessarily Star Wars fans, but may find an outside reference to it.Squad51 (talk) 17:18, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possible page move mess

I wasn't present for any of the above, but was the intention for the previous page history of Darth Vader to reside at the redirect titled Anakin Skywalker?

If not (and I doubt it was), this probably needs to be fixed. Though I'm not sure if I should go with a partial history merge, to move each history under the name it formerly resided at (Anakin page history at the Anakin redirect, previous Darth page history (and subsequent) here), or if (since this has come up more than once, creating several mixed merged in the past) just to history merge everything here.

Suggestions welcome. - jc37 21:37, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

See #Requested move 1. Jhenderson 777 14:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah good job. That looked like a lot of work. Jhenderson 777 15:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
After I wrapped my head around the confusing history (not only caused by the recent move, but also some pagemove archiving of Anakin Skywalker and some manual merging and consolodation of Darth Vader archives in 2009), it wasn't that bad. =) –xenotalk 15:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Redo

Right idea, wrong way. Might I suggest the redirect be the other way around, especially since he dies as Anakin at the end of Return of the Jedi? 74.78.89.243 (talk) 15:20, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Consensus is to do it this way. We can reevaluate ... later. --EEMIV (talk) 15:36, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay. 74.78.89.243 (talk) 18:33, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Hayden Christensen

"Hayden Christensen played Skywalker in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith; he also donned Darth Vader's armor for the final scenes of the third prequel."

I think this line should be changed to to make it clearer that in Revenge of the Sith Christensen portrays BOTH Anakin Skywalker (eg. good) and Darth Vader (eg. evil). On the same note, David Prowse wore the suite when Anakin threw Palpatine down the Death Star reactor shaft. This means that Chistensen and Prowse are the only actors to portray both Anakin and Vader. Greneath (talk) 15:08, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Just realized that the same logic could be applied to James Earl Jones as well Greneath (talk) 10:12, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Anakin and Vader are the same person. Throwing an old guy down a reactor and saving your son (who you put in danger in the first place)doesn't redeem you from slaughtering children with a laser stick and killing billions by blowing up a planet. There's no magical switch that makes him Anakin one minute and Vader the next. Darth Vader is a title, not a new person. Like Emperor Palpatine IS Darth Sidious. Count Dooku IS Darth Tyrannus. Anakin Skywalker IS Darth Vader. So Hayden Christensen and David Prowse didn't play two different characters.129.139.1.68 (talk) 19:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
I don't believe i ever stated Anakin and Vader ARE diffrent people. I was writting in the context of the story. Anakin and Vader are the same man, but different identities. Anakin Skywalker is a good, compassionate but troubled man who makes some bad decisions, Darth Vader is the manifestation of all that is bad, evil and cruel within Anakin's soul, brought to the surface when he turns to the dark side. Many characters see Anakin and Vader as seperate entities. Examples included Obi-Wan telling Luke that Vader "betrayed and murdered [his] father" and when Palpatine speaks to Vader after discorving Luck's identity, as he refers to him as "the son of Skywalker" as apoused to "your son". Even Vader shares this view, when Luke tells him that he was once Anakin Skywalker Vader replies "That name no longer has any meaning to me".
Now, to the piont I was trying to make in the first place, I was preposing that a line be changed to make it clearer of when these identity switches occer. Anakin becomes Darth Vader long before he is put in the suit, and abandons his sith title and identity before Luke remove the mask.Greneath (talk) 17:37, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
You can have an identity crisis but remain the same person. Read some Aristotle or ThomasAquinas. 94.193.240.201 ([[User

talk:94.193.240.201|talk]]) 19:17, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

That's what I was saying Greneath (talk) 16:30, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Anakin as protagonist or antagonist

I have just stumbled upon this article and discovered that the authors, for whatever reason, have decided to depict Anakin Skywalker as "the chief antagonist in the original trilogy and one of the main protagonists in the prequel films". Having skimmed down the discussion page it appears that I am not alone in thinking that this is a very dogmatic and short-sighted presumption on which to base a description of the complex character of Anakin Skywalker (and while we're at it, I don't particularly think "Darth Vader" should be the name of this article). Allow me to argue why this assertion is not the undeniable truth that the introduction suggests it is.

Firstly, it doesn't make an awful lot of artistic sense. The whole idea of a protagonist who suddenly becomes an antagonist half way through the saga, and remember this is saga and not two seperate stories, wold probably be unprecedented. I suppose you could cite Heathcliff of Wuthering Heights as an example to the contrary,but even here, as you will see from the respective article, he is described as a "byronic hero" rather than an antagonist".

Secondly, it doesn't really match the overall plot of the saga. After all, the prophesy of Anakin as chosen one is not really disproved once he joins the dark side, since, as we all know, it is he who finally defeats the dark forces of the sith by betraying Darth Sidious in the last moments of Return of the Jedi, not Luke, who is brought to his knees by the Emperor and is only saved by Darth Vader's profound human pity. In the last moments of the film Vader, or rather Anakin, tells Luke "you were right" for believing, unlike the sceptical Obi-Wan and Yoda, that Vader has good in him. How can a man who overthrows the Sith and brngs balance to the force be the antagonist?

Surely the chief antagonist is the Emperor? He is by far the most powerful force of evil throughout the saga, prequel and original. In the original series, it is he who gives orders and Vader who transfers them to below. It is he who, having betrayed Vader, calls for Luke to kill him and become his new apprentice, just as he does again and again in the prequel trilogy. His death marks the end of the oppressive reign of the Sith, but the death of Vader alone would have no influence whatsoever on the oppressive power of the Emperor.

It would surely be much better to describe Anakin / Vader as a protagonist with a number of fatal flaws. Yes, he does terrible things, but he doesn't truly do them out of malignancy as any genuine antagonist would. As one of the apologists for referring to Anakin as an antagonist pointed out, George Lucas himself seems to agree with me. I'm not suggesting we simply label Anakin / Vader as the protagonist and be done with it, but I think for a character like this we should respect the various interpretations available, including the interpretation of those who made it. --86.185.204.137 (talk) 21:02, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

The big problem there is that his past history was not known when the first films were made since they took place after the events of the 4-6th films. He was clearly not being protrayed as a protagonist in the earlier films. Also is must be remembered that the term antagonist does not mean being a villain but a person/thing etc that stands in opposition of the primary hero and for the vast majority of the original trilogy Vader was clearly in opposition to Luke's goals. Granted he did change sides in the end but by that logic we could also say he was an antagonist in the second trilogy because he joined the dark side at the end of the third film but I don't see anyone making that argument.--76.66.188.209 (talk) 18:57, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
To sum it up, Darth Vader is one of the two primary antagonists in Episode IV and is THE main antagonist in episode V while being a secondary antagonist in Episode IV until the very end of the movie. Over all he is designed as the central/most recurring antagonist in the whole original series. Anakin seems to portrayed one of two of the deuteragonists in Episode I while being one of the two protagonists in Episode II, same at first in Episode III until he is revealed to be a false protagonist and switched to be one of the primary antagonists at the very end (which is to be expected). Over all he (along with Obi-Wan) is the central character/protagonist (even though he turned bad if you count all the three movies he is still a protagonist or false protagonist, protagonist doesn't always mean good guy) in the prequel trilogy. And is one of the (if not the one) most central character in all of the films (and just being just one of many if you count expanded universe). For the name of the article Darth Vader is a more common name of the character, in-universe perspective states that he is truly Anakin over Vader (that's why Wookieepedia has that name) but when it comes to an outside universe perspective Anakin started out being well known as Darth Vader more than anything and still (even though he is used less in Star Wars media currently because of the Clone Wars project) outside of Star Wars media Darth Vader is the alias that mostly going to be parodied/mentioned of popular culture. I hope I helped. Jhenderson 777 00:47, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

The Languages section of the page is missing a French (Français) link to http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Vador. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.14.228.137 (talk) 13:59, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Chad Vader Reference?

Should we add an inter-wiki link to Chad Vader: Day Shift Manager? And where would be the best place? I would't go so far as to call it a relevant Cultural impact - but it's either there, or under "See also". --79.194.8.188 (talk) 20:36, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Definitely not significant enough to warrant being mentioned in the "See also" section; "Cultural impact" would be the ideal place to put it. Perhaps a quick mention in the paragraph that starts with "Many films and television series have paid homage to Darth Vader"? EVula // talk // ☯ // 21:00, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Ah, I've just noticed IPs are not allowed to edit. Sorry. Would you like the honor?
91.22.164.245 (talk) 02:08, 3 February 2012 (UTC) (Same guy, different IP)

Nooooooo!

Should the "Noooooo!" internet meme be noted here? Its quite popular among the internet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.60.243.144 (talk) 01:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Main protagonist

Isn't the main protagonist Luke Skywalker in the trilogy? Morgan Katarn (talk) 10:58, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Lord Vader

Would anyone mind if I added that Darth Vader is sometimes called "Lord Vader" in the original trilogy? Woknam66 talk James Bond 22:58, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

No problem.This should come in a trivia section, along with the dutch origin of the name. If no one else does it or has a problem, then i will add that section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.12.183.130 (talk) 12:35, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Lede

The lede section has grown bloated with plot detail, esp. the third and fourth paragraphs. I'm stepping out the door -- anyone watchlisting this article want to take a whack at trimming the lede to what's appropriate? --EEMIV (talk) 15:21, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Dutch Origin

Seems like it should be mentioned that the word "vader" means, in Dutch, "father". ironmagma (talk) 07:59, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I think that would be considered trivia.--76.66.180.54 (talk) 04:01, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Still it should be added, as well as other trivia which this page is lacking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.12.183.130 (talk) 12:33, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Disagree, Wikipedia has guidelines against against excessive trivia and this is excessive. The only way I could possibly see this being added would be if the writers stated that they used the dutch term for father in selecting the name as a hint that Vader was Luke's father. So far nothing to that effect has been stated.--174.93.167.177 (talk) 07:04, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 November 2012

The image Sebastian_Shaw_as_Anakin_Skywalker.jpg was removed from the article on August 25 for no apparent reason (or possibly vandalism --the edit was made by a sock puppet). I request it to be readded to the article. 200.92.16.206 (talk) 00:13, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

 Not done. The image was removed because it didn't have a valid fair use tag for this article. If you want it added, go add a fair use tag for this article first. gwickwire | Leave a message 00:34, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Anakin\Vader

When Ben was telling Luke about his father, he got something wrong, he said Anakin was "Darth Vader"'s master, half right. Darth Vader is Anakin, just not his master. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.25.46.229 (talk) 21:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

He never said anything of the sort. Powers T 01:47, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


Sorry if I am posting under the wrong topic...not sure how to post a completely new section. The BPD diagnosis has been disputed, see here http://darthvaderbpd.com/ and especially the link to the Randi Kreger blog at PsychologyToday.com . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.19.137 (talk) 01:44, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Interestings!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.145.218 (talk) 22:04, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

What Ben really said that was wrong was claiming Anakin had been a good friend. Ben was more like a mentor/teacher/older brother to Anakin, but friend? I didn't see it.

Edit Request

I believe it would help to have the image File:Anakin_Skywalker.png next to the "Portrayals" section. It serves to identify each of the actors that have played Anakin/Vader in the movies, including Shaw, who is presently not shown (issue addressed in previous edit request) 65.33.107.187 (talk) 00:02, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I neglected to mention that this is time sensitive; the image will be deleted soon if not readded to this article. 65.33.107.187 (talk) 00:11, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done -- Dianna (talk) 03:28, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Doctor Doom

I've read here: http://comics.ign.com/top-100-villains/3.html that Doctor Doom is one of the inspirations for Darth Vader. If true, may it be added? michel_sharp (talk) 21:55, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

As i've said above, this page desparately needs a trivia section for that kind of stuff--212.12.183.130 (talk) 12:37, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
That would not be necessary, since if that can be shown to be true it should be added to the relevant Concept and creation section not a separate trivia section.--174.93.160.57 (talk) 20:18, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Phrasing connoting poor portrayal of borderline personality disorder

"Darth Vader's iconic status has made the character a synonym for evil in popular culture; psychiatrists have even considered him as a useful example to explain borderline personality disorder to medical students."

I feel the semicolon separation and close tie between these two independent clauses can lead one to make the association between 'synonym for evil' and 'borderline personality disorder' rather than the intended association of both with Vader's iconic status. Suggest slight rephrasing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.156.28 (talk) 00:50, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Consensus to unmerge

There originally was a consensus closed to merge since some people feel strong about the merge I opened up a new one. Jhenderson777 14:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

What is the point of gaining a consensus only to re-open the debate a few days later because some have strong feelings, the point will never be closed whilst both sides of the argument have their strong points of view. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 17:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I see your point. Of course I am not really not reopening the same debate. I am using this section as a consensus to agree on keeping this merged or not or put back as was. And should probably be voted by some that haven't shared their opinion yet. Some may have thought the merge was a disappointment (which never had a chance to voted in the first place) as seen above and some may have though it is fine as it is. Or this section can be used just state your opinion which way they thought was better. Over all I get your point too but that's not the subject here. Jhenderson 777 18:03, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The merge should stay, they are the same person (apart from to some people that can't seperate reality from fiction). I am however going to change my vote in the renaming stakes due to the argument of least surprise that was put above. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 20:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Your opinion on that doesn't really matter. You're not a notable source. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 17:18, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
It is perhaps more accurate to say that the Vader persona was developed first, and the A. Skywalker developed in such a way as to have him "evolve" into DV. The latter's track is predicated on the former. The more I revisit it, the more I think it would be appropriate to rename the article but keep them together. --EEMIV (talk) 18:04, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
I know this a entirely different subject of this particular topic. But if this stayed merged perhaps the better name is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader just to avoid favoritism over which name it should be. The name seems to be the basic problem of the merge. Although I am not completely sure of this name either because it is a bit long. Jhenderson 777 18:19, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
This is how it looks like. Jhenderson 777 18:23, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Slashes in names are strenuously advised against. --EEMIV (talk) 19:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
OK then. Fair enough. That's why I originally dismissed that idea. Even though I have never actually noticed anywhere advising against it. It wouldn't surprise me if so. Jhenderson 777 19:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
It's called an opinion. This is a talk page. My opinion certainly does matter when it comes to arriving at a consensus. Notability is only an issue when it comes to article inclusion. Powers T 21:19, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
WP:Consensus is NOT a vote. Why do people keep using voting as a way to determine consensus?--Jojhutton (talk) 23:20, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
The same reason real-world democracies do: because it's an easy way to measure something that is very hard to gauge without metrics of some sort. Powers T 14:29, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • UnmergeWhen I proposed the name change I thought the application of naming policy would be clear - but when debate got rolling it made me think deeper on why these two things should co-exist on one article. In my opinion the primary arguement in merging these pages - that the two are "the same person" is a very in universe perspective which does not serve the function of a general-use encyclopedia. That line of reasoning attempts to think of the subjects within the context of the fictional universe when it seems apparent to me that the two have real world notability that are very distinct from one another. One of these subjects served as the central antagonist in a film trilogy made between 1977-1983 the other the main protagonist in a trilogy made between 1999-2005, their roles and characterization are distinct (to some extent even opposite) and the two hold very different spots in the general publics perception. For instance Darth Vader was ranked as Empire magazine's #2 all-time greatest movie character - this notable title cant be rephrased to be about "Anakin Skywalker" or "the Darth Vader persona of Anakin Skywalker" because that isnt how that publication, or the public at large, thinks about Darth Vader. As this article currently stands it reads like two distinct articles that are not smoothly fused together - alternating in sections between refering to "Anakin" and "Darth" - and given that policy compels us to write articles like this in order of real-world publication instead of in universe chronology I dont think its really even possible to make this a cohesive article with a smooth flow. I think the best arguement for keeping them merged, as far as wikipedia policy dictates, is the issue of redundant content; however, if we are worried about redundant content then I suggest in relevant sections of each page we could simply briefly summarize and direct readers to the other page. Solid State Survivor (talk) 05:40, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Support unmerge. These are not real people but fictional characters and can be dealt with separately due to their highly divergent characteristics. As noted previously, it works fine with Clark Kent and Superman, two characters far lees diametrically opposite than Skywalker and Vader. Ditto for Bruce Wayne and Batman, Dick Grayson (et al.) and Robin, &c. — AjaxSmack 01:51, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment. Darth Vader and Anakin has the same characteristics. Anakin has changed his political view in Episode 3, that's all. Anakin, when he was named Anakin, did some Genocidial acts, like killing the people who tortured his mother. Bruce Wayne and Batman can be seperate, but Darth Vader is what Anakin evolved gradually during the first 3 episodes. Note that, in Episode 5, "the offspring of Anakin Skywalker" was used to refer to his son. Kavas (talk) 12:27, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
  • We need more opinions. So far this is a no consensus. Jhenderson 777 18:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Considering this question seems to have come up quite a few times on both articles' talk pages over the last couple of years, let me suggest this: let's shift more of our focus to the article itself, bolster the cited material addressing the real-world development and critical reaction to the character[s?], and see whether the actual academics and producers out there can more clearly illuminate the appropriate treatment of this subject. If the sources we're should be spending our time adding more often treat them as distinct, then perhaps a re-separation is appropriate; however, if the trend is to see them as a single character with massive mood swings ;-), then let's keep them together. --EEMIV (talk) 22:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
      • Inside the universe of Star Wars itself it is obvious that they are one and the same.( Even though Obi-Wan Kenobi does state that Anakin died and hence Vader is born hence making these identities a bridge between good and evil between one person) But in an out of universe perspective it is clear that they are two notable aliases in the fictional world that can be seperated. Jhenderson 777 23:09, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
        • I keep reading that and the converse asserted on the talk page. But I don't see this belief substantiated by cited sources, which ultimately is what we're after. Let's close this rehash of a perennial conversation and instead dig up the perspectives of real-world people who actually matter, rather than us silly Star Wars and wiki fanboys. The Darth Vader uber-book I referenced somewhere on this talk page apparently is out in Europe -- anyone have it? Sounds like a good starting point. Someone raise their hand to listen to the DVD commentaries. I'll go back to Google Books. The underlying question: do people who matter address/refer to this topic as a single character, or do the analyze/discuss/etc. them as two different things? I found four separate sources in about 24 hours a few weeks ago -- let's stop yapping here and go work on the actual article. --EEMIV (talk) 23:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
          • I get it already! You want to hear information and sources outside in in-universe perspectives. I am all for that. I really do want to hear opinions from George Lucas and other creators about this subject in interviews and documentaries as well. Information like this can even make articles like this better as well. Jhenderson 777 23:30, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support unmerge per Solid State Survivor and Powers. We're essentially dealing with two distinct characters from two different film trilogies. In-universe arguments that they are the same "person" don't really hold since our primary concern is real world notability. PC78 (talk) 08:39, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose Unmerge No-one has yet provided any real world reason for the article to be split. All give examples refer to them as one and the same, which they are. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 14:29, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support Unmerge Neutral, especially with the advent of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed and Star Wars: The Clone Wars. There is a clear difference in the two characters, and I'll be darned if Concept and Creation of the characters is the same. Reception and impact would also most likely be different. Harry Blue5 (talk) 16:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
    • Upon reflection, most reception and stuff about Anakin is moreorless how he became Darth Vader and then redeemed himself. While Darth Vader has become a symbol for eviless, Anakin has done no such thing. Change to neutral. Harry Blue5 (talk) 21:06, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Oppose Unmerge I think some of the editors are missing the point of how an encyclopaedia deals with fictional characters and indeed real people! The fact is that Darth Vader and Skywalker are the same character, one character cannot have two articles- if so why stop at two? Why not have one for ever emotional stage/identity of the character's life? Why don't we do this for all fictional characters? Heck why not do it for real people too? We could have a page for George W. Bush (student), George W. Bush (governor), George W. Bush (president) and George W. Bush (post-presidency)]]. One character/person- One article, the developments of the character in the "canon" is irrelevant, this isn't a fictional encyclopaedia which pretends the Star Wars universe is real but an encyclopaedia of fact which contains an entry for a fictional character and their impact upon film and popular culture- the "canon" identity/story of the character is actually secondary to that. Dominic's Fire (talk) 19:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
    • Fictional characters are entirely different from real people. A real person is always the same person, for instance. That fact is arguable in fictional characters. Harry Blue5 (talk) 21:06, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Now here's the thng. I never thought that JHenderson's little "consesus" would get us this far, as really all this is is flaming, when we decided to unmerge and closed the official consesus above. No, not that one, the one before that, yeah, right there. But this harsh forum has been inactive for a year and a half and still hasn't closed because people are faling to make a decision. Since this one was never an official consesus and can't close, I'm coming from the future with a little comment. A lot of people will give us the "Clark Kent/Superman" thing but what you don't understand is that you guys are looking at it from a fictional perspective, we're looking at it from a real-world perspective. In the real world, Vader and Skywalker are treated as entirely separate characters, with different cultural impact. When somebody says the name "Darth Vader," does somebody respond with "Oh, Darth Vader, you mean that name that anakin had for a while." No! They say, "Oh, Darth Vader, the bad guy from the old Star Wars movies." So, you might also say, "Then let's have articles for Anakin Skywalker (Tatooine slave), Anakin Skywalker (Jedi Youngling), Anakin Skywalker (Jedi Padawan), Anakin Skywalker (Jedi Knight0. But in the REAL WORLD, all those "guys" are treated as the same person, in magazines, they don't rank all the different Anakin Skywalkers. I have a book that lists Star Wars characters, for example, and in that book, it lists "DARTH VADER" and later "ANAKIN SKYWALKER." Yeah, I don't mind if they're one article on Wookieepedia, because they preteend that Star Wars is the real world, and real people only get one article, but in a fictional universe, us here at Wikipedia can't decide what's "real" or not. Sure, people can always say they're the same person if they do, but until George Lucas becomes an editor on Wikipedia, he doesn't get to decide what we put in our articles. Even when he does, he doesn't get to barge in here and say "OK, I said Anakin was Vader, so fix this article immediately." He doesn't get special treatment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.242.172.224 (talk) 15:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

This vote is almost three years old. There was no point in commenting in this section. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 13:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes it has been a while since I started this consensus and I feel that it was stupid that I did such a thing. It really seems to be a no consensus going on here if you add up the consensus before this one. I really believe if you want to re-add Anakin Skywalker you should do it the right way. Anakin Skywalker was nothing but plot junk before (if I remember correctly). No reception, creation and concept that made it per Wikipedia standards. If you add that kind of stuff together than even I would support such a move. Jhenderson 777 14:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Hebrew Letters

I believe the famous translation of "his deeds... etc" is incorrect. I gathered more information about the subject on my blog here: http://aboutsalama.blogspot.com/2013/06/darth-vaders-jewish-origin-golem-of.html I'll be happy to discuss any unclear details. Mando Salama (talk) 13:29, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Anakin the main protagonist in the original trilogy?

I thought that was Luke... --79.211.99.129 (talk) 12:56, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

You are correct. Luke is the protagonist, and Vader is more of the antagonist, but good luck convincing anyone of that here. For all their talk of NPOV, the editors of this page have drunk the cool-aid that Lucas has served about the Star Wars series really being about Anakin. Kenobifan (talk) 22:38, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Not for nothing, but it *IS* tough to argue with the guy who created the series, much less the guy who also gets to decide what canon is or is not... Not matter how many times we have to tell him Han shot first! ;) Dphilp75 (talk) 22:14, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I can argue with him, because he may have been the creator of SW with the original trilogy, but he was also the destroyer of SW with the prequel trilogy. How are you suppose to respect someone who changes what is and isn't canon based on a whim. Or injects his current social or political philosophy into films that influence young followers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.234.133 (talk) 07:35, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Please Add...

...the Template:Jedi, the Category:Jedi, and the Category:Sith. --173.51.29.188 (talk) 02:00, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

 Not done They do not fall into either of those categories, and Category:Sith was deleted many years ago as unneeded. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 08:32, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 Done Scratch that. I thought I was responding on another article. I'll do it now. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 09:00, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

This can of worms again - Shaw or Christensen in Episode VI

Controversial or not, it's now established canon that Anakin's ghost at the end of Return of the Jedi is portrayed by Hayden Christensen and not Shaw, therefore the image we have on this article is non-canon material. Thoughts? 134340Goat (talk) 21:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

"Canon" isn't a real determinant of inclusion or exclusion of content; it's a useful notion for straightening things out in-universe, but production decisions, edits, revisions -- real-world stuff -- are what matter for Wikipedia. In this instance, then, what might be appropriate would be to edit the caption to indicate that Shaw played Anakin and his ghost initially in RotJ, but that he was replaced in later DVD releases. In fact, I can go do that now. --EEMIV (talk) 21:47, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
indeed. So long as a clarifying note is present making it clear that Shaw's ghost image is from the pre-2004 editions, there should be no issue. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 11:07, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
This was fixed when I last checked a few weeks ago, but it seems any note of the change of actors has now been erased. 134340Goat (talk) 06:42, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
Huh. Yeah, I missed it's removal, too. I'll go adjust it. --EEMIV (talk) 04:38, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Article Title

Should this article be renamed to "Anakin Skywalker" rather than "Darth Vader"? WP articles speak of fictional characters as if all events happened in the past, and chronologically, as shown in Return of the Jedi, the character died as Anakin after being redeemed, not as Vader. Thoughts? 134340Goat (talk) 04:24, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

This has, I am certain, been discussed to death in the past. The issues of the article's name revolves primarily around the fact that "Darth Vader" is a much more well known and commented upon character than "Anakin Skywalker", and so the one more likely for the, erm, uninformed (?) to search for. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 09:15, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
The phrase "Darth Vader" could easily redirect to this if we were to retitle it. 134340Goat (talk) 19:33, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
The talk page (& archives) here and at the Star Wars wikiproject have repeatedly delved into this discussion. The local consensus is for this article to be titled "Darth Vader," as that is the most culturally-recognized and -relevant label for this character. "Anakin Skywalker" might be a more appropriate title from an in-universe perspective (or maybe not), but that isn't the perspective Wikipedia adopts. --EEMIV (talk) 21:27, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Goat, you are correct your statement that "Darth Vader" could easily be a redirect, but that isn't the point. As EEMIV and I have stated, the general consensus is to have the article in it's current namespace. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 13:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
I can see the reasoning behind it. Very well then, let this be the example for the next person that asks this question :P 134340Goat (talk) 20:06, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
I believe that, despite Darth Vader being for the 'uniformed', that Anakin Skywalker is a much more appropriate name for the article, as if you include the Clone Wars episodes, then he is mentioned more than Darth Vader. I believe that there was originally there were separate articles for Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker, and though I agree with them being merged, I don't agree with the name change. Rila. 20-13-rila (talk) 14:37, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
The name wasn't changed... --Jasca Ducato (talk) 14:40, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2013

I would like to edit Darth Vader, in order to add a category. Ninjasquirrel75 (talk) 01:15, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Not enough in-universe info???

Just a comment: I'm surprised that there aren't many 'Star Wars' universe descriptions of Anakin's character. I mean, in Jedi Quest: The Way of the Apprentice, it says that one of the major problems with Anakin was that he himself knew about the Jedi Prophecy that he was the chosen one to bring balance to the Force, which contributed to his arrogance. Or this: In the book 'Revenge of the Sith' when Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Mace are in the Clone Trooper Transport, Obi-Wan describes Anakin as 'loyal beyond all reason, perhaps the most loyal person he's ever met', in regards to individual people he cares about. As Obi-Wan explains to Yoda and Mace, it is people themselves, rather than moral principles that Anakin cares about, which is one of the main factors that made him a difficult student. Obi-Wan asserts that he doesn't think Anakin will ever truly understand that aspect of being a Jedi; what is given up, and later on, when he turns to the Dark Side, Obi-Wan even admits almost ashamedly to himself that he thinks he knows why Anakin turned.

Maybe these tidbits won't be added, but I wanted to offer them anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oovo (talk • contribs) 01:19, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

While including such information would undoubtedly contribute to the article positively, the article isn't so much about the character's life, as it is about the concept and cultural identity in the real world. As such, all that information is better suited to the character's article on Wookieepedia, where it currently resides. --Jasca Ducato (talk) 11:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2014

Under 2.2 Prequel Trilogy, 2nd to last paragraph, 2nd word should be "Palpatine's"— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.78.69 (talk) 03:12, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Done, thanks! LittleMountain5 05:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Palpatine not a politician?

Palpatine was a Senator from Naboo before he became Chancellor and later Emperor.

Given that the Queen of Naboo is elected, I would assume a Senator would be as well.

Doesn't that make him a politician?

--Mfwills (talk) 13:54, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I think the job itself more than how he got it makes him a "politician." Even folks elected to *political* office are politicians. That said, I'll caution you against using supposition, aka original research, as a basis for adding/removing information from Wikipedia. And, regardless, the whole parenthetical comment in question seemed irrelevant, so I removed it. --EEMIV (talk) 15:03, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2014

The second listed actor for playing Darth Vader as a child is wrong, it is not the black kid from That's So Raven.

You'll notice at the top right of the artical there is a list of actors that have played Darth Vader, the lowest (think vertically now, at the bottom) person listed as playing him as a child is black. Discussions of how that might help the young thing that would have ruined the film if Jar Jar wasn't slightly worse cope on a hot dessert planet aside, Anikin was played by white actors. 'cept for the famous voice, but child Anikin was always white.


I know that technically counts as origional research, but he never played Darth Vader, it's a vandal tampering.

ATTENTION: I AM POINTING OUT A CASE OF VANDALISM, THE CHANGE REQUESTED IS TO REMOVE IT, SO CHANGE "X" TO "" (NOTHING, REMOVE THE VANDALISM) OR! Learn to read! 137.205.238.82 (talk) 00:11, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 01:40, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Again, specifically, what is the name of the actor you want removed? I can't tell. Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:51, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Not done, and unlikely to be done. According to the sources, Frankie Ryan Manriquez voice acted in Star Wars: Clone Wars. Yes, the request is confusing. As are the arguments. Sam Sailor Sing 18:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2014

Under Appearances, Original Trilogy, 1st paragraph, last line -

Vader pursues Luke's X-Wing fighter down the trench leading to the Death Star's exhaust port and is about to shoot him down when Han Solo's Millennium Falcon clips him and sends him flying into deep space -

is incorrect. It should read closer to this -

Vader, along with two wingmen, pursues Luke's X-Wing fighter down the trench leading to the Death Star's exhaust port and is about to shoot him down when Han Solo's Millennium Falcon appears over the trench, destroying one of the wingmen and distracting the other one enough to make him crash into the trench wall, clipping Vader's TIE Advanced X1 fighter in the process and thus sending Vader flying out of control, away from the first Death Star and its eventual destruction. He regained control of his craft shortly thereafter, and headed off into deep space.

Mornaric (talk) 20:40, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

 Done Sort of. The suggested edit contains unnecessarily trivial details (e.g. Vader's exact fighter model) and is wordy. But, I did address the implication that Solo actually *hit* Vader. --EEMIV (talk) 21:00, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

What does this sentence even mean?

"In the first draft of The Star Wars, tall, grim general "Darth Vader" came closer in line with his final depiction in the second revision..." means what? "Closer" than what to what? Are we really to believe that the first draft came closer in line with the second revision? rowley (talk) 20:53, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

That sentence does not make any sense. DARTHBOTTO talk•cont 23:45, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Indeed. rowley (talk) 19:35, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Since it is impossible to figure out what the passage is supposed to mean, and it makes no sense at present, I am just going to remove the offending portion. rowley (talk) 21:16, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Should Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker have seperate pages?

I think given Clark Kent is a separate page from Superman this would be appropriate. Also than the prequels can be ignored more easily. CensoredScribe (talk) 18:08, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would make sense; I was trying to create a link now to Anakin (as a boy) on Wikipedia, but realized the page entirely focuses on Darth. I don't want a picture of Darth on the page I'm linking to; I want a picture of Anakin as a boy. (from Episode I). PerLundberg (talk) 21:25, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Regains Consciousness?

He was kept awake for the whole procedure. It should be "When Vader asks if his wife is safe". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.60.230 (talk) 22:16, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 10:30, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


The Clone Wars series

Should we put Anakin's role in the show? User:Leader Vladimir

Information on Anakin/Vader's appearance in official animated films and series (The Clone Wars and Rebels) was added some time ago. I just edited the section to clarity and merge a pair of duplicate paragraphs.

The Ukrainian Darth Vader is one Person (Please fix page)

The Wiki Article mentions that there are "Two men" which is not true. There is only one Darth Alexiovish Vader, and he is running for Mayor in both Kiev and Odessa.

Sources:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вейдер,_Дарт_Алексеевич (His Russian Wiki Page)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10849554/Ukraine-crisis-worsens-as-Darth-Vader-stands-for-mayor.html

Link to Official Internet Part of Ukraine website, listing the only Darth as one of the Vise heads of the Party: http://www.ipu.com.ua/bosses/Zamestiteli/

Link to Mayoral campaign website: http://vader.com.ua/

http://vader.com.ua/biografiya (direct link to Darth's Bio)

Brock Peters in Portrayals

Brock Peters voiced Vader in the three National Public Radio "Star Wars" audio dramas recorded and broadcast in the 1980s. I would think his contribution rates a mention in the Portrayals subsection.

Citation 7

The website which is linked in Citation 7 (James Earl Jones unaccredited due to 'small role') does not contain any information on the subject.

Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2015

Add "Although Luke passably resists," for accuracy and replace "Luke's agony" with "his agony". Screamingsaucer (talk) 02:26, 8 November 2015 (UTC) Enraged, the Emperor fires continuous streams of Force lightning at Luke, intending to slowly torture him to death. Although Luke passably resists, the sight of his agony breaks the dark side's hold on Vader, and he kills the Emperor by throwing his treacherous master down the Death Star's reactor shaft. In the process, however, he is fatally injured by the Emperor's lightning.

Not done: including "his" in that sentence could refer to Vader or Luke, let's leave it be as it seems clearer Mdann52 (talk) 19:36, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Edit war

@Dr. Vadam: and @Mezigue: I sense a potential edit war brewing today between you, if only because Dr. Vadam has not explained his/her reverts via edit summary. As a matter of fact, this editor does not seem to have ever used an edit summary or commented on a talk page. Dr. Vadam, you are a very new editor (a little over 300 edits) so you may not realize that not explaining your edits or engaging in discussion can be problematic when edits are potentially controversial or challenged. Please initiate a discussion here before reverting any edits to this article (or restoring any of your edits reverted by other editors). Thanks.— TAnthonyTalk 06:45, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, despite being given warnings for his previous edits and his most recent warning on edit summaries, Dr. Vadam doesn't seem to be listening. I gave the user a warning and I notified WT:STARWARS and WT:FILM about this matter, but what would be the next step if this keeps going on? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 12:25, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Looks like he finally responded. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:08, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, best for Dr. Vadam to leave change logs from now on and interact with discussions. On account of all the edits worth mentioning, I believe their original, impartial forms are to be preferred. I mean, we can state that people had their hands severed and we can forego mentioning the emotions characters felt while committing acts- this keeps this encyclopedic. DARTHBOTTO talk•cont 07:47, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
I already gave Dr. Vadam some comments which seem to be reasonable enough since he is relatively new to the encyclopedia actually. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:58, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Dr. Vadam still doesn't seem to listen and has started to add his version back in. I'm at my third revert and I don't want to violate WP:3RR, so what should we do now? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:30, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Michael Kaminski and Vader as Luke's Father

The reference to Kaminski's claim that Lucas conceived the plot point about Luke's parentage later, after the first film, should be supplemented by a sentence pointing out that the first film makes at least two allusions to Darth Vader being Luke's father (The statement of Luke's uncle about his fear that Luke is too much like his father; and Obi Wan's evasive reaction when asked about the death of Anakin Skywalker).

Other Movies where the Character has appeared-

Like Robby the Robot, Darth Vader shows up everywhere

Two movies I can think of.

The Indian in the Cupboard (1995) (Vader is fighting a T-Rex)

Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian (2009) (Just simplify; there's just too much going on. You're evil, you're asthmatic, you're a robot. And what is the cape for? Are we going to the opera? I don't think so.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:189:C101:5BF9:A082:42E4:CB3B:151 (talk) 22:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 December 2015

I think that David Prowse should be listed as an actor for Anakin Skywalker because he still donned the armor when he threw Palpatine down the Death Star reactor shaft. I also think that James Earl Jones should be listed as a voice actor for Anakin for the same reason. 67.166.200.75 (talk) 04:00, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 January 2016

Please say something about why Kylo Ren has Darth Vader's mask. 47.18.141.221 (talk) 03:05, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — JJMC89 (T·C) 07:08, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Footnote 23

Footnote 23 is clearly wrong and has nothing to do with this topic -- perhaps a spam advertisement?

Try actually reading the article at the reference (currently numbered 23) and you'll see that it's very much relevant and not spam. General Ization Talk 04:59, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2016

Please change the picture of Darth Vader you have on this page.... Darth Vader never hung out downtown... 70.62.19.66 (talk) 19:27, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Mlpearc (open channel) 19:32, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

AwesomenessOfJedi

This is want it should look like:

First Appearance: Star Wars

Last Appearance: Anakin Skywalker: Revenge of the Sith Darth Vader: Star Wars Rebels — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.83.32 (talk) 20:53, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Potentially useful references for animation/character development

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaMo-Z-ofcc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slwtHYyKMbY have a panel discussion with Dave Filoni, Henry Gilroy and Kilian Plunkett. I was listening for nuggets to use with The Force (Star Wars), and just heard a neat bit in the second video, starting ~10 or 11-minute mark, about Anakin and his skill development relative to e.g. Obi-Wan. Didn't have my Anakin/Vader filters on when I started at it, so could be there're some other useful things in there, too. --EEMIV (talk) 14:59, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Edit Request

Under occupation in the information box it says "Anakin Skywalker: Jedi Master", that should be jedi knight as Vader never obtained the master rank. 2A02:181F:0:80A7:B89D:6E67:EF3C:2679 (talk) 16:33, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

This still hasn't been fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.171.184.123 (talk) 15:53, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Info box tpo: "Anakin Skywaler" should be "Anakin Skywalker". Markboonie (talk) 00:51, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Original titles vs. re-release titles

Per WP:MOSFILM, we usually go by the original film titles. However, re-release titles (such as Episode IV) were included in recent edits. As the film's earliest title was simply Star Wars, and since its article, as well as its sequels The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, are referred to without the revised "Episode" titling, I think that the films should be referred to by their original titles where necessary. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:06, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. Kinda thought that was already SW Wikiproject consensus anyhow. --EEMIV (talk) 00:49, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 Done. Fixed up all episode titles for Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi to match original titles. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:53, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Sources to use

Here are some sources we can use to help expand the article as a whole:

I'll keep adding to the list, but if there are any additional sources, please list them here. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:40, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Appearances section

I'm probably pulling myself out of a rabbit hole and try to go ahead and trim the appearances section down to a manageable size, so we can possibly nominate this for GA or FA again, using Jabba the Hutt or Jason Voorhees (both FAs) as references. Really, I think we can cut down some of the minor parts and trivia and unnecessary plot detail, I think it would work fine. I already trimmed down the animation section, but I'm opening a discussion on the talk page and see if we can get any thoughts on this matter regarding the trilogies. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 14:06, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

First thought is they look a little exhaustive, almost scene-by-scene of what he does. If we're wedded to the idea that his major story arc is his rise, fall, and redemption, most of the appearances stuff should anchor itself pretty closely to that plot thread. I'll take a more deliberate look this afternoon and try to bounce some ideas for trims or cuts back here. --EEMIV (talk) 14:17, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Yep, I would agree that a scene-by-scene description is a little too much. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:30, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
A bit late, but took a copyediting swing at the OT. I'll do likewise for the prequels, but OT looks pretty tight -- more more trimming and the prose becomes pretty stale and difficult to read. --EEMIV (talk) 15:23, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
I removed a couple of lines about Skywalker being appointed to the Council, spying on Palpy, not getting the title, etc. They're a bit trivial with regard to the overall arch. That said, I'm pretty sure this is in Chris Taylor's book about Star Wars: RotS went through some rewrites that muddled Anakin's motivations. His despondency with the Jedi was initially a stronger motivator for his fall, and his frustrations re. title, spying, etc. are vestiges of that. It could be those plot details are worth retaining, but in that case it'd probably be good (and more illustrative) to explain his e.g. frustration with the Jedi and sense of torn allegiances. --EEMIV (talk) 15:51, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
While I'm still trying to get the depiction section trimmed down to size, I'm using the Star Wars databank as reliable sources. I think we should also include some more information from different RS as well as with Ahsoka Tano. Does anyone have thoughts about this?
Also, are there any thoughts about the following proposals as possible paragraphs for the prequel trilogy section:
Anakin first appears in the prequel trilogy as a slave living on the planet Tatooine in The Phantom Menace, which takes place 32 years before Star Wars. Owned by the junk dealer Watto and living with his single mother Shmi, Anakin is a pilot and mechanic, and is the creator of a robotic protocol droid, C-3PO. When Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn meets Anakin, he discovers that Anakin's blood has a unusually high level of midi-chlorians and is convinced that he is the "Chosen One" of Jedi prophecy who will bring balance to the Force. Qui-Gon wagers Anakin's freedom with Watto in a podrace, which Anakin wins. Anakin joins the group to be trained as a Jedi and befriends Padmé Amidala, the young ruler of Naboo, in the process. After Anakin is escorted to Coruscant, Qui-Gon asks the Jedi Council for permission to train Anakin, but they refuse out of concern for the boy's vulnerability to the dark side. When the Trade Federation invades Naboo, Anakin inadvertently joins the battle against the Federation droid control ship in space. Anakin ventures into the ship and destroys it from within, deactivating the droid army. After the Trade Federation is defeated, the Jedi Council reluctantly accepts Obi-Wan's request to train Anakin as a Padawan apprentice.
In Attack of the Clones, which takes place 10 years after The Phantom Menace concludes, Chancellor Palpatine assigns Obi-Wan and Anakin to investigate an assassination attempt on Padmé. Anakin travels with her to Naboo, where they eventually fall in love. When Anakin has a vision of Shmi in pain, however, he travels to Tatooine to rescue her. While at the Lars homestead, Anakin discovers that his mother was captured by Tusken Raiders. Although he locates Shmi at the Tusken campsite, she dies in his arms. Anakin, enraged, massacres the Tuskens and returns to the Lars homestead to bury Shmi. Anakin and Padmé travel to Geonosis to rescue Obi-Wan from the Sith Lord Count Dooku, only to end up being captured and sentenced to death along with Obi-Wan. As Anakin and Padmé profess their love for each other, they and Obi-Wan are rescued by an army of Clone Troopers and the Jedi. Anakin and Obi-Wan eventually confront Dooku, but they are subdued and Anakin loses his arm. Eventually, Anakin marries Padmé in secret.
In Revenge of the Sith, which takes place during the conclusion of The Clone Wars. Anakin and Obi-Wan rescue Palpatine in a space battle over Coruscant. When the Jedi encounter Dooku, Anakin subdues and kills Dooku on Palpatine's orders. After returning to Coruscant, Anakin learns that Padmé is pregnant with his child. However, Anakin has visions of Padmé dying during childbirth, and is determined to prevent them from coming true. Palpatine tells Anakin using the dark side of the Force, including the ability to help save a dying person. Although Anakin tells Jedi Master Mace Windu about Palpatine's true identity as Darth Sidious, he inadvertently helps Palpatine kill Windu. In a desperate attempt to save Padmé's life, Anakin pledges himself to the dark side and becomes Palpatine's apprentice, Darth Vader. During the Great Jedi Purge, Vader leads a legion of clones to kill everyone at the Jedi Temple. After Vader massacres the remaining Separatist leaders hiding on Mustafar, he meets up with Padmé, who implores Vader to leave the dark side. Vader refuses, and when he sees Obi-Wan, he chokes Padmé into unconsciousness. Obi-Wan duels and subdues Vader, leaving him for dead on the bank of a lava river. Palpatine recovers the badly burnt Vader and takes him back to Coruscant, where Vader's body is rebuilt and fitted with a black armored suit. Subsequently, Palpatine tells Vader that he killed Padmé in his anger. As the film concludes, Vader supervises the construction of the first Death Star along with Palpatine and Wilhuff Tarkin.
I think that this will benefit the prequel trilogy section if we try to simply de-fluff the section's scene-by-scene detail (we don't need to know everything that is going on when writing a character biography but only the crucial information; the detailed fictional information can be sent to a Wikia page) and just focus on Anakin's fall to the dark side in this manner. I'll see what I can do to do a complete rewrite of the original trilogy section of the article as well if it is necessary. For the creation section, we should include the writing and voice acting as well. If there are any other ideas, please feel free to add to it. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:42, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
I think it looks good overall. But (and you knew there was one). From a real-world perspective, ROTS is not Anakin's final film appearance, as the Clone Wars film, despite taking place earlier, was released after. While not a main saga film, and really just the pilot for the tv series, it was theatrically released, and matters of canon, importance, etc. are too INUNIVERSE for Wikipedia. oknazevad (talk) 17:17, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
I agree that matters of canon, importance and so on are too WP:INUNIVERSE to be included. Information like this would have to be sent to another wiki like Wookieepedia for example. Unfortunately, while I mostly agree with the recent copyediting and rewording efforts by others such as this one, I think we still need to continue discussion on how we should reword the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy so we can get a fair consensus and get this up to GA or FA. In the meantime, I've reworded the proposals above. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:31, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
The draft above and the current article language seem apt to me. My own approach to this type of content has been, and same as Sjones23 mentions, is to pull out scene-by-scene plot summary and keep the focus on the character itself; anyone interested in the bigger storyline picture can go to the article about the film, series, etc. In that regard, the Prequel appearances section seems apt. --EEMIV (talk) 15:50, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for the late reply, but I agree with EEMIV that the draft and the article language seem like enough to me. However, if there are any additional suggestions on how to rewrite this, please discuss it here. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:48, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Section break

I'm asking around as well as WT:FILM for project members to voice their opinions on how to improve this section. Meanwhile, I'm planning to start cutting down some fluff and do a complete major overhaul of the article and group some of the smaller sections under "Other media" or "Legends" in case of non-canon material. I've already merged the discussions I have started under its appropriate sub-sections to prevent any clutter. Please add your thoughts there. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 12:31, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Vader and Obi-Wan's duel

In the third film, Vader loses his remaining limbs and gets burned by a lava river. While I'm trying my best to copyedit the plot and agree with most of the recent changes, I find the current description and wording regarding Vader and Obi-Wan's duel just a little too much for an unfamiliar reader (for example, "Obi-Wan emerges" should be "Obi-Wan disembarks", etc.). So, how should we streamline this information without sacrificing anything important to Vader's character (such as Vader getting dismembered by Obi-Wan, choking Padme into unconsciousness and later getting burned near the bank of a molten lava river, and Obi-Wan leaving him for dead) with regards to WP:INUNIVERSE and WP:NOT#PLOT? If there are any suggestions, please post them here. In addition, is it relevant to mention that Anakin loses his limbs (i.e. arms and legs) in the second and third films? Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:08, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Possible wording issues

I have some concerns about some possible wording issues. In the original trilogy section regarding Return of the Jedi, "Believing" is a synonym for "thinking" or "supposed," but it can also mean "assuming" as well. While I think "Having believed" would work better in this case, which other wordings can we use for this? Also, in the prequel section regarding the armor in Revenge of the Sith, "first seen in the original trilogy" should be mentioned in the appearance section and the wording about the suit in the depiction should be shortened to "a black armored suit" or "seen" can be replaced with "depicted" since I think they mean the same thing. We should also keep technical detail in the appearance section to a minimum and expand the sections with interviews. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:39, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Legends and Clone Wars

In my most recent edits, I found out that the Star Wars: Clone Wars micro-series was out of place when it was moved, and I thought it and all of the other non-canon material should be kept in the Legends section since it was declared non-canon along with the comics and literature prior to 2015 and they have been moved there. Considering the fact that they have been reformatted recently, should we move all of the non-canon material back to the Legends subsection and should we also differentiate with the Clone Wars TV series and film as they were released in 2008? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:33, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

There is now a relevant RFC on this issue at Talk:Star Wars expanded universe#RfC: Is it relevant to group all non-canon EU material in a Legends subcategory? in order to get a consensus there. Please comment there. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:49, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

The Force Awakens

Unfortunately, I had to remove the recent section addition regarding The Force Awakens because Vader doesn't appear in that film or in the sequel trilogy for that matter; that particular section has been added in and removed like a few months ago and is not really necessary to be included here. With regards to the section in question, I think it's best to leave it out until we get a bit of a consensus as per WP:BRD. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:04, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

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Cites in lede

Noticed that the lede section has a few citations, the first three to the obvious-on-the-face-of-it claim that he's a character in SW. The cited assertions, save the final one, are covered elsewhere in the article; the fifth can easily be included in the list of lists he's appeared on. Pretty sure the MOS advises against cites in the lede, and Master Chief (Halo) follows that pattern. (Palpatine doesn't, but I think it could/should.) Any reason not to tidy up the lede? I've kept <1/2 an eye on Wikipedia recently, so I'm wary to jump in too much to an article that I know has seen a lot of revising recently (which also makes me wonder whether they were left for a reason). --EEMIV (talk) 13:16, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Rogue One

Please add to the "Rogue One" section how Darth Vader could have appeared if the events in "Rogue One" took place before the 1977 film "Star Wars." 173.88.241.33 (talk) 05:15, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I see: "...the film is chronologically set after the events of Revenge of the Sith and immediately before the events of A New Hope [the 1977 film]." 173.88.241.33 (talk) 05:17, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

robber

File:Darth vader robber.jpg

Trying to edit this to article but having trouble.TeeVeeed (talk) 15:43, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Man disguised as Darth Vader robs bank TeeVeeed (talk) 15:45, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Man_disguised_as_Darth_Vader_robs_bank sorry about the rl TeeVeeed (talk) 15:45, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Guest appearance in videogame

Vader appears on the cover of the PS3 fighting game Soulcalibur IV, where he is a playable character. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.226.49.230 (talk) 13:24, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Don't forget Category:Soulcalibur series characters — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.24.169 (talk) 14:00, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2017

In the first paragraph, change this:

central to narrative of the prequel trilogy

to this:

central to the narrative of the prequel trilogy Marein (talk) 09:33, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Done DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 10:45, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

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Name origin?

Hey, I've heard both "Vader is the Dutch for father" (which is chronologically problematic) and "Vader was the name of a high school classmate of Lucas" (roughly ten minutes into vid<DOT>me<SLASH>TCvu). Has this come up before? Could a non-self-published source be found for the latter? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:20, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

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