Talk:Big band

Citations

This article is grossly lacking in cited sources, which really needs to be fixed. 72.70.17.237 (talk) 00:31, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

List

Now that "Light current" removed all the artist names from instrument sections, we've lost a lot of valuable and interesting information. Why do we need to get rid of all names?

How did the bass player get to be the most important member of the rhythm section? Everyone knows the drummer controls the timekeeping with the ride cymbal and hi-hat (I should know, I'm a big band drummer). Bbq332 23:01, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Ahh, the drummer thinks he controls the timekeeping, but how can he with all those fills?. Its the bass player who controls things (I should know, Im a big band bass player) Touche! 8-) --Light current 00:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I revised the section on the bass and took that crap out. Atpal 06:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see the relevency of the list of big band leaders, as it it too limited (the first that pops to my head that isn't on there being Benny Goodman).- Deus Homoni

I agree. Where is Duke Ellington?

He's dead!

Also needed is a list of more modern big bands, and current day big bands, like the Big Phat Band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.83.146.244 (talk) 07:06, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

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This is a pretty weak article for the english version of Wikipedia... there are so many Americans in the world, so tell us about big bands! -- Stephan from Germany 22:33, 6 September 2005 (CEST)

I'll put this on my list of things to do. - mako 21:38, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

It would probably be helpful to merge this article with the article "Jazz band". I've never known a technical difference and both articles describe ensembles with the exact same instrumentation.

"Jazz band" is a loose term that is sometimes also applied to jazz combos. But the term "big band" refers more specifically to the era of dance bands: Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington, etc., and therefore should be its own article. - mako 22:40, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree--big band is quite definitive. But those list of big bands should be cleaned up. I don't recognize most, and I don't know if that's because they're non-notable or I'm just not into big band enough. If I were to clean it, I'd probably erase all the ones that don't even have stubs. Also, outside of American big bands, I think they should all be grouped into "Other big bands". (Americentric since I'm pretty sure that's where big bands originate.) FireWorks 21:45, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

How about moving everything into a List of big bands? Eventually I'd like to see the history section expanded, and mentioning/wikilinking bands in that section will be a good enough "list" in itself. - mako 07:19, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. - mako 07:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Can someone please tell me who was the first band that actually performed in the formation that we know today? (5 sas's, 4 tpts, 4 tbns, rhy sec.) Thank you!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.240.1.140 (talk) 08:18, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Rhythm section in Latin jazz

1. Does not swing.
2. Needs hand percussion, not just a drummer.

Does anyone know more? De mortuis... 02:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

• Rhumba
• Samba
• Beguine
• Bossa Nova
• Merengue
• Paso Doble
• Mambo
• Cha Cha

These are some of the rhythms used--Light current 09:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Also see clave (rhythm). - mako 19:30, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

DJ big band

I created an article on DJ big band and added a link to it from the see also section of this article a while ago. However, it has been removed three times... What do people here think of that? Is it totally irrelevant to have a link to DJ big band from the big band article? I don't think so. Thanx Julien Tuerlinckx 21:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

BTW I realize the article needs to be improved but it will not help that if this link is always removed... Julien Tuerlinckx 21:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Groups of DJs (perish the thought!) can never be considered to be a band (let alone a big band) in the proper sense of the word

--Light current 22:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

^p==Sweet bands?== Could anyone clarify, please, what does the term Sweet band mean? Or I just don't get something because English is not my native language? Evaldas.s 13:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Rhythm section

Err, shouldn't Guitar be included in the info box? I can't remember Freddie Green ever playing banjo with the Basie band. ♦ Jongleur¹⁰⁰ ♦ ^talk 11:14, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I've never seen a big band with marimba in it... maybe it is the vibraphone that is meant? 80.216.251.183 (talk) 08:59, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Big bands with more of a latin style would have used a marimba and not a vibraphone. I played for a time in a Swing Band. They followed the instrumentation as noted in the article's diagram, a vocalist. That band is still active, btw. --71.214.209.113 (talk) 18:08, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

My first Wikiproject

Hi guys. I love Bigband, and I've just gotten introduced to wiki at work...so here I am. I am re-working the opening paragraph - pasted here - A big band is a type of musical ensemble associated with playing jazz music and which became popular during the Swing Era from the early 1930s until the late 1940s. Big bands evolved with the times and continue to today. A big band typically consists of approximately 12 to 25 musicians and contains saxophones, trumpets, trombones, singers, and a rhythm section. The terms jazz band, jazz ensemble, stage band, jazz orchestra, society band and dance band may be used to describe a specific type of big band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stutty (talk • contribs) 22:40, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Big band era

The article doesn't seem to make clear that, like so many other things, the price of labor went up and the venues changed drastically.

The big bands of the 1920s through the 1950s were affordable for 1000 to 2000 dancers. After that time frame, the prices went up drastically and they were no longer affordable to such "small" groups. The venues changed to stadiums. For those that wanted to actually dance, they might hire a local orchestra, where available. But none "flew" (or took trains or buses) all over the country as they did back then. Student7 (talk) 00:09, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

This article could be improved. If you have references for what you are writing about on theis talk page(I have seen whole chapters devoted to one subject - the decline of big bands - in books about jazz, swing, etc) please add material to the article, and references, too of course! Steve Pastor (talk) 20:35, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Middle category

A TV band is a band put together for a TV show, and maybe needs an article. -Inowen (nlfte) 05:13, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Merger discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge given uncontested objections, no support and stale discussion. Klbrain (talk) 20:16, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

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I am proposing that Orchestral jazz be merged with Big band. I think that the contents of Orchestral Jazz can be integrated into the History section of Big Band. However, I would like some feedback and second opinions on this as Orchestral Jazz is specific to early big band. This is also my first time attempting to merge an article and any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

--Izlhyl (talk) 00:19, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Just to be clear -- are you proposing that the article be called "Big Band" or "Orchestral Jazz"? The term "big band" is much more well-known as a jazz genre, so I would think that would be the name of the article. However, the terms are not synonymous. The current content of "orchestral jazz" does seem to deal almost exclusively with "big band" of the swing era, so there's a lot of duplication with the big band article. However, "orchestral jazz" also encompasses compositions for symphony orchestra that have strong jazz elements, like "Rhapsody in Blue" and other Gershwin pieces. Other composers, like Stranvinsky, Ravel, Shostakovich, Copland and others have significant jazz influences. This would not fall under the rubric of "big band". Similarly, there's the so-called Third stream, a fusion of jazz & orchestral which also has its own wikipedia page. Before merging, I'd suggest continuing this discussion to clarify terms and intentions. I think it might be appropriate to consider a structure in which "Orhestral Jazz" might be the highest-level article, with "daughter" articles for "big band", "third stream" and maybe others. Just because "orchestral jazz" might be a higher-level article, that does not mean it would contain the most content. It might be something like the "big tent" arcticle under which others could be developed. Just my two cents.--Jburlinson (talk) 01:07, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I am proposing that the article be called "Big Band" and that the current content of "Orchestral jazz" be added or moved to "Big Band". I am aware that the terms are not synonymous, however I agree that the current content of "Orchestral jazz" deals mostly with swing era big band music with little to no mention of symphonic jazz works such as Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue". I agree that Stravinsky, Ravel, and Shostakovich and other such composers have works that are significantly influenced by jazz. Perhaps it would be best to have a page that describes the timeline/evolution of large ensemble jazz influenced music as it is clear that these genres are all related but evolved to develop their own defining characteristics.

One thing I am certain about is that the current "Orchestral Jazz" article should be expanded as it currently only covers swing era big band music and ensembles. I think "big band" and "third stream" are subgenres of "orchestral jazz", however not all of "orchestral jazz" is "big band" or "third stream". The "orchestral jazz" page fails to mention Gershwin, Stravinsky and others... as well as the works of Gil Evans and Gunther Schuller. Izlhyl (talk) 22:00, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Oppose: Orchestral jazz and big band are two very, very different genres. While both articles currently are lacking, it would do no good to combine them. You said it yourself that they have their own defining characteristics. Furthermore, a better term for the article would be "Symphonic jazz", as that's the standard name for the style in every source I've come across. Why? I Ask (talk) 02:42, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Segregated and integrated bands and audiences

This article could use more discussion of the "color bar" in bands, in performing venues, and among listeners, in USA, for forms invented by black musicians but more lucrative for white musicians. Unfortunately, Benny Goodman is not mentioned at all; he (white) apparently played both white and black musicians. Acwilson9 (talk) 17:03, 10 June 2022 (UTC)