Talk:Arabic music

Homophony

Homophony is a form of harmony, so perhaps the statement should just be that Arabic music does not use harmony. Trontonian

The following sentence doesn't make sense: "That doesn't mean that Arab music doesn't contain polyphonic pieces, as the instrument Qanoun is based upon the idea of playing two-notes chords, but quintessentially, Arabic music is melodic." Two note chords are not polyphonic, and polyphony is not harmony. If Arabic music is polyphonic then it would be entirely melodic. See: Musical texture. Hyacinth 22:28, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Arabic music --> Arab music

I think this should be at Arab music, because otherwise it could be interpreted to be referring to music with lyrics in the Arabic language, which I don't think is meant.

See below at Requested move --Espoo (talk) 13:30, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Non-classical?

I believe the article describes only classical arab music (sacred music being the same with sacred lyrics and purpose), though the only source (so far) did in no way elaborate on the topic of folk or popular musics, though Arab countries and people do have folk and popular music. Hyacinth 03:18, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Arabic Music; the word Arabic is applied as an adjective the same way when we refer to Arabic culture, Arabic cuisine, Arabic language etc. Additionally, Arabic Music, like other musics and their proper lyrics, gets its title from its Arabic lyrics not from French, English or Spanish. For instance, we can say English literature, French music, Spanish history, Arabic music, Russian cinema etc... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.5.215.250 (talk) 22:33, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

John Zorn muslim?

Does anyone have a reference for the assertion that Zorn is a convert? He is in any case not an Arab, so does this information (and that about Richard Thompson and Cat Stevens) belong here? -- Ferdinand Pienaar 10:27, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

They all belong at Muslim music, if anywhere. Hyacinth 03:36, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Maqamat

This is a strange entry: Maqamat music as practiced by Turks and Arabs and before the development of Dastgah in Persia did not originate in Spain. It originated in the Persian courts of the Sassanids in Iraq and Iran as the persistence and proponderance of Middle Persian terms in Maqamat vocabulary attest. Persians may have been the pioneers and early theoreticians of the Maqam system but it was the Turks who devloped the orchestral versions of Maqamat. However given that the maqamat system has given way to the more academic but more boring Dastgah system in Iran and given that the Turks can not make up their minds about whether they are proud of their past or not, it is the Arab Musicians not only in the sophisticated metropoles of Cairo and Lebanon but also in more simple yet authentic places like North Africa and the Gulf that are the true heirs of the maqamat system. - DeusAhrimanus (signed by Hyacinth)

Female Slaves

A- this section in particular really needs to be cleaned up B - is there any evidence at all that "Little Egypt" was a "slave girl"? Why is this even included in this section? "In 1893, "Little Egypt", a belly-dancer from Syria, appeared at the Chicago world's fair and caused a sensation."~~Flora

Requested move

I believe the accurate and most used term is Arabic music. Arabic music includes music song by non-Arabs. -- Szvest 12:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm being bold and moving the article to Arabic music as per:

• Arabic language: Transliterated Al-musica Al-Arabiya instead of Musica Al-Arab
• Latin language: Musica Arabica
• German language: Arabische Musik.

Also per google:

• arabic music: 1,010,000 hits.
• arab music: 346,000. -- Szvest ^{Wiki me up ®} 13:16, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct. Thanks for making that move. Tiamut 16:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

But the alternative and equally correct term Arab music should be mentioned at least once at the beginning, so i added it. Both Arabic and Arab music are use in Enc. Brit. and on about 1/3 of edu pages and 1/3 of Google Scholar hits and in Category:Arab music and Cairo Congress of Arab Music --Espoo (talk) 13:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Under construction

I've just placed a tag. The article has been stuck in a status quo. It is totally unorganized and spontaneous. Please help reorganize it. -- Szvest → ^{Wiki Me Up ®} 12:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

External Links too commercial

It was frustrating looking through those external links. I can't see any reason why Wikipedia should link to commercial music websites that want to sell their wares. The links should only go to non-commercial sites, who are willing to allow their free music examples to be downloaded in full. Otherwise, it's better to have no links at all, than links to commercial music sites. 203.206.237.126 21:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Musical Influence

The lead section of this article gives an informal list of which music types influenced and were influenced by Arabic music, but does not distinguish of which are the latter/former. I think explicitly listing which has been influenced and which has done the influencing would be very informative (as I myself would like to know!), or perhaps even devoting a small sub-section to a snippet of Arabic music's closely related "geneology" might serve even better. - 74.12.81.237 05:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Turkish Music?!?!

I removed the reference to Turkish Arabesque (or rather, Arabesk) music under the 'regional styles' section because, well, Turkey isn't an Arab state. There certainly has been influence going both ways, and this cross cultural pollination can be discussed on it's own merits, preferably under a more general Middle Eastern and/or Islamic music article. I'm also thinking that section should be cleaned up in general, perhaps expanded to talk about specifically regional styles like Algerian rai, Egyptian chaabi and al-geel, the khaleeji music of the Gulf, and so forth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zekeriyah (talk • contribs) 07:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

al-jeel or jeel music and no al geel ?--Mario scolas (talk) 07:04, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Some More Changes

All right, I made a couple more changes here. For a start, whoever started this article seemed to focus too much on female artists. Mind you, there is a bias in Arabic music towards female singers, but I was a little bothered by the lack of reference to, say, Mohammed Abdel Wahab or Abdel Halim Hafez. I think this article needs to be fleshed out a little more, including reference to both classical Arabic music, and more regional styles. Some editing to remove non-pertinent parts would probably help too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zekeriyah (talk • contribs) 08:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Contentious

Another theory on the origins of the Western Solfège musical notation suggests that it may have also had Arabic origins. It has been argued that the Solfège syllables (do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti) may have been derived from the syllables of the Arabic solmization system Durr-i-Mufassal ("Separated Pearls") (dal, ra, mim, fa, sad, lam). This origin theory was first proposed by Meninski in his Thesaurus Linguarum Orientalum (1680) and then by Laborde in his Essai sur la Musique Ancienne et Moderne (1780).

This para conflicts with modern textbooks and will require a more recent source than those given. Redheylin (talk) 01:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

References

ثاتير الموسيقي العربية والاتيها في الموسيقي العالمية .. وبديات العالمية للموسيقي العربية

من المعروف في الموسيقي العربية عن الاتيها المميزة جدا ومن اشهر هذه الالات الة العود والذي هو  اصل الغيتار الاسباني الذي انتقل الي اوروبا وامريكا واعتمدت هذه الموسيقي الغربية علي الغيتار بشكل كبير جدا في تطورها  وكانت من اول الذين وصلوا الي العالمية في الموسيقي العربية المعاصرة الفنان العالمي الليبي اخمد فكرون الذي سجلت له اكثر من 7 شركات عالمية  البوماتيه بدا من سنة 74 ووصولا حتي اواخر  الثمانيات   فرنسا ايطاليا انجلتري فنزويلا  ....  والذي تعاملة مع فنانين عالمين في الموسيقي والثمتيل والتصوير والانتاج  مثل تومي فانس وجين بابتيس وكالوش و ريكاردو  سنيقاقليا .... ومن بعد جاء فانون من الجزائر  ( موسيقي الراي ) واشتهروا بموسيقاهم علي مستوي العالم مثل الشاب خالد  والشاب مامي ...... وايضا جا من مصر المغني عمر دياب والذي حقق نجاح عالمي نسبي نوعا ما واول هذه النجاحات كانت اغنية حبيبي يا نور العين   تلحين اسطورة القيتار الملحن والموسيقي والمغني الليبي ناصر المزداوي  الذي صنع بقدرته الموسيقية مع حميد الشاعري هذه الطفرة الموسيقية العربية  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.254.0.105 (talk) 21:56, 29 January 2011 (UTC) 

sources/history

This source Farmer, Henry George (1978-12). Historical facts for the Arabian musical influence. Ayer Publishing. ISBN 9780405084966. Retrieved 31 May 2011. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help) and this one Touma, Habib Hassan (2003-03-01). The music of the Arabs. Hal Leonard Corporation. ISBN 9781574670813. Retrieved 31 May 2011. could be used to creat a better (factual) early history section. J8079s (talk) 22:27, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Goblet drum 01.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Organ

The claim that the English word for organ derives from the Arabic seems outlandish. There are clear Greek and Latin roots (organon/organum) for the word organ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geburtstagskind (talk • contribs) 16:20, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

That doesn't necessarily mean that the Greeks and Romans cooked up the term all by themselves, though it does seem unlikely that it can be shown to have entered those languages from Arabic in the pre-Christian era (the OED verifies it for both Classical Latin organum and Ancient Greek, ὄργανον). I have flagged the claim with a request for a source, and it will be interesting to see if anyone can come up with one.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

No it does not seem unlikely to have came from eastern words. And keep your condescending comments to yourself, by saying "It will be interesting to see if anyone can come up with one". The whole Arabic music page here is a joke because it was edited mostly by clueless Americans and Europeans. I'm going to tell my Arab friend , who is a music professor to take the time to fix the whole wikipedia page using real Arabic sources since people like you and your eurocentric views keep vandalizing the article, bringing in 'latin, greek, roman, european' origins here. Arabic music and Persian music have a long history before Europe even existed as a culture. I suggest you leave eastern articles to the eastern experts and not biased eurocentric views from people like you. Not everything is about the western world. There wouldn't even be a western world if there wasn't an eastern world first. I suggest you take a good long history course, or two! Read the wikipedia guidelines: 'Wikipedia:Neutral point of view'. Also read the wikipedia article about respecting other people's cultures and allowing them to edit their known knowledge on their own culture. You don't own the articles here! Read the wikipedia guideline about not editing a single article multiple times in 24hrs, could get you blocked! When I have good time, I'm going to fix the Persian articles on wikipedia because that's a joke too! Persianbeauty (talk) 20:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Constructive criticism is always welcome. Thank you for the pointers to Wikipedia guideines. Here is one I can offer in response, and here is another one. FWIW, I agree with you, this article is very poor. I cannot say who it was edited by, and I hope the Arab and Persian scholars you consult can set everyone straight about the origins of words in Greek and Latin, not to mention modern languages. Of course they are bound to do better than what is here now, we are agreed on that much.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

By the way, the word oud comes from the Arabic word, al‘ud which means "wood", which is thought to have come from the old Persian word 'rud' which means stringed instrument. Persianbeauty (talk) 20:19, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

And, yes, I know that. I thought everybody did, which was why I did not think a source for such an obvious fact was needed.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

If you know this already, why did you rudely remove my citation and call it not enough? As if anything in that article is cited by enough sources? The very first citation you have doesn't have a page number and says it's a 'review' itself! But its ok to you since it mentions a european country, greece? But now you want exact page number and more sources to prove to you that a word actually comes from an Arabic or Persian root word?? That falls under Harassment, the very article you suggested here. And you should actually read both of those articles you suggested. Your previous comment was the most condescending comment I've read here, "It would be interesting to see if someone can come up with one" Not to mention claiming latin roots for the word 'oud'. I suggest you learn how to respect other cultures. I love my European and American friends but the people who come on Wikipedia are the most self centered uneducated ignorant closeminded people ever! I will however add that if you were actually being 'serious' and not sarcastic about agreeing with me, than I do appreciate that! Persianbeauty (talk) 20:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

And just how does this address the subject of this discussion: "The claim that the English word for organ derives from the Arabic"?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 01:18, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Condescending attitude toward ancient Greece

There it multiple times where the author(s) make condescending remarks, especially toward ancient Greek society, asserting that Arab systems are superior, below I will list a few examples.

"Arabs translated and developed Greek texts and works of music and mastered the musical theory of the Greeks"

"Mastered" is a strong word, perhaps "learned" or "expanded upon", "mastered" is condescending, a word that expresses more of a cultural harmony rather than superiority should be preferred.

"He surpassed the achievement of the Greek musicians in using the alphabetical annotation for one eighth"

Again the author(s) is trying to show they are superior to the Greeks, perhaps they the author is prejudice against Greek culture?

"the Arabic system is more complex than that of the Ancient Greek harmoniai"

This is vague, what exactly does "more complex" mean? Also it is irrelevant, the article goes on to explain the Arabic music system, that is the important information, not whether or not who's better or "more complex" at music.

The article needs to be rewritten to be more informative about Arabic music, indeed that is what I want to learn about, not hear about someones bias against Ancient Greece. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BookishRogue (talk • contribs) 22:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Honorable mention for the composers?

I edited the part about "Interaction with Western popular music" to reflect the influence of Mohamed Abd al-Wahab and Baligh Hamdi. Also changed the name of "the drum" in the part about Dick Dale to something that is more correct and also more colloquially recognized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isfahani drums (talk • contribs) 19:43, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

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