Talk:Akshata Murty

Introducing personal analysis

Hi USer:Pol098 I see the attempts you are making to change how this article reports on her tax status. I see they are good faith edits and probably accurate. However, you cannot just change the article based on your interpretation of circumstances, even if they are correct. Please, add material with inline citations. Everyone should support that, but you cannot just change the content based on your own analysis. See WP:OR CT55555 (talk) 21:34, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

I've added references to existing sources to support the text. Is there any other particular statement that requires a source? Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 21:46, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

It's better. But please note: we don't put citations in the lede. We make the article fully cited and then summarize it into the lede. CT55555 (talk) 22:04, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Amongst various points, her having an Indian passport is irrelevant; it's citizenship that matters. Source states that she is an Indian citizen ("Ms Murty, an Indian citizen"). The fact that her income is from Infosys is irrelevant; what matters is that it's overseas income. Sources so state ("Akshata Murty opted to claim non-dom status, meaning she does not have to pay UK tax on her overseas income"). That she pays £30,000 pa for non-domiciled status is sourced. Is there anything else that needs sourcing, or clarifying? Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 21:52, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree on the nationality rather than passport, your edit was an improvement. The source of her income is a notable fact, please remember this is an article about her, not just about her tax situation, and her income is a notable aspect of her. I think overall the edits are good. I think the way it's written could be tweaked. I'll leave it for a bit and see what others think/say and may edit just for style. I may specifically edit the citation out of the lede and the bit where it says "not having to" as that seems like a change in tone, but it's not a big deal, so will wait a bit. CT55555 (talk) 22:07, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Regarding "not having to": it's important not to imply that she has evaded paying taxes she was obliged to. While this could be reworded, simply "not paying tax" is not good. I'd comment that I see significant untaxed overseas income as the essential point; that it comes from Infosys is less relevant. In other words "not paying tax" and "huge income from Infosys" are both relevant, but "not paying tax on her income from Infosys" conflates them unnecessarily. But I'm not too fussed about this. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 12:28, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

I think our job is to just say what happened. Not to go adding "legally" or "not legally" to everyone's actions on wikipedia. If the sources say "legally" or "not legally" that would be a different matter, but you seem to be back into adding your own take on things. We don't say she got married legally, or went to university legally, or ran her business legally. You get my point? CT55555 (talk) 12:59, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Sources are quite clear and explicit that she is not obliged to pay tax. This is not only an issue of being clear in an encyclopaedia entry; saying that someone who would normally be liable "does not pay tax" could be construed as libellous. I tend to be cautious about this sort of statement for that reason. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 13:07, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

It is not libelous to say that someone who didn't pay tax didn't pay tax. "The truth" is a very effective legal defense in libel cases. CT55555 (talk) 13:22, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

The potential legal implications are my only serious objection to simply "did not pay tax". I note that all the news media sources are careful to point out that she was entitled not to pay. If this were a newspaper I would put this through the legal department, who word things to avoid trouble where possible, rather than relying on defending. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 13:53, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

The Wikipedia equivalent of running it by legal would be to post on WP:BLPN if you feel something is dubious here. CT55555 (talk) 14:09, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Maybe the term 'followed the rules/did not follow the rules' could be useful. Paying tax should not be rubbery matter. In this day and age, with a lot of pressure on the public purse from health matters and wars, slackness makes everything more difficult. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:D4EB:ACB8:7DB8:400C (talk) 03:22, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

I put in a wikilink to Double taxation which seems to resolve this per the law in the United Kingdom. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:13, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Statements advertising humble upbringing and willingness to pay tax

Hi Adakiko, the statements removed from Early life section that talk about "humble upbringings" appear to read more like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia. The same is the case with "she said she will pay taxes" in Personal Life section. The fact that she has paid taxes can be added to the article after the act is done. Coming back to statements in early life section, could you help me understand their importance and relevance to this article but not of the sibling Rohan Murty? Appreciate your help. Thanks! Cockatoo17 (talk) 13:47, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Just to say, I agree with your comments here and your edits. I'm not sure if it's relevant to say, but I created the article in the first place. (Of course, I'm aware of WP:OWN and make no claim of ownership or anything like that). I didn't like these edits, but the volume of edits for a while was a lot and I only reverted the most troubling ones. CT55555 (talk) 13:50, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for voicing your opinion and for efforts taken to compile this article. It is indeed a difficult one to write. There's not much published about her work as a fashion designer, or contributions to firms she has associations with, but a lot about being a Murthy, being associated with a politician running for PM office, and then the tax bit unfortunately. If one is to only consider career and contributions (and not fame acquired due to wealth and associations), then she barely qualifies for a wiki page. Cockatoo17 (talk) 14:34, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

On Wikipedia we concerns ourselves less about why they are notable and more about if they are notable. i.e. being notable for wealth or tax issues is no more nor no less valid than being notable for fashion and career. She absolutely qualifies for a wikipedia page, the relevant guideline is WP:GNG. CT55555 (talk) 15:32, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense. There is signficiant coverage in reliable sources. Thanks for explaining. Quentinhotwater (talk) 15:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Personal wealth ranking

IP editor 92.15.144.174 has removed mention of her wealth ranking (222th in the UK) despite this being widely reported and a matter of interest. I invited them to bring this to the talk page, they declined. I've reverted the edit twice, and hope to discuss here.

Examples of reporting on this:

1. https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-rishi-sunak-becomes-richest-ever-occupant-number-10-2022-10-25/
2. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/20/sri-and-gopi-hinduja-named-uk-richest-people-james-dyson
3. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61490481

CT55555 (talk) 14:56, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

There's no problem whatsoever with this being in the article, but I think it's a bit strange to mention the wealth in the lead here but not on the lead of Rishi Sunak's article, IMO it should be in the lead of both articles for consistency. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 14:59, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Please consider WP:WHATABOUT and let's discuss here what should be on this page, and discuss elsewhere what should be on other pages. For what it's worth Rishi is probably best known for being Prime Minister and Akshata is probably best known for being wealthy and his wife. CT55555 (talk) 15:40, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Yeah that's a pretty good point, so leaving things the way they are is the best solution. Just wanted to clarify that I never had a problem with her wealth being mentioned here. --92.15.144.174 (talk) 15:59, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I accidentally overstated the point, and acknowledge that you removed it only form the lede, not the whole article. Sorry for that. CT55555 (talk) 21:44, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Akshata murthy (cropped).png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:36, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Akshata Murty/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: An anonymous username, not my real name (talk · contribs) 18:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. An anonymous username, not my real name 18:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Non-issues

1. Images are good and tagged correctly.
2. Stable and neutral.
3. There are some extensive similarities to [1] and [2], however based on the dates, it seems most likely they were copied from here rather than the other way around, after careful inspection of the page history.

Things I would recommend changing

1. Per MOS:LEADCITE, her name and the date of her birth shouldn't need a citation in the lead, as that is not a statement that is "challenged or likely to be challenged".
2. Her personal wealth became the topic of British media discussion in the context of her claim of non-domiciled status in the UK. The body doesn't really elaborate on the "British media discussion".
3. "Early life and education" would be better condensed into one or two paragraphs. Also, the parts about her education could use some dates.
4. Can you find the names of her maternal grandparents?
5. As per an anonymous source, Murty had a comparatively simple middle class upbringing in Jayanagar, a suburb of Bangalore, with no birthday parties or much pocket money. Everything about this statement is rather vague, besides the location.
6. She is a director of Digme Fitness, and digital transformation company Soroco that her brother Rohan Murty co-founded. This sort of comes out of nowhere. Could it be better integrated into the other information on her career?
7. In April 2022 it was reported that she is a non-domiciled resident of the United Kingdom Reported by who?
8. Murty announced that she would give up her non-domiciled status and pay UK taxes on her worldwide income voluntarily. When did she announce this?

That is all I've noticed so far. I can understand if you can't find better info for a couple of these, but most should be fixable. An anonymous username, not my real name 20:05, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Tweaked the sources, links and references. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:17, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

1 - I've removed the citations from the lede CT55555(talk) 14:01, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

2 - I've fixed that. Diff CT55555(talk) 14:05, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

3 - I've combined into two paragraphs and added dates for school and college CT55555(talk) 14:15, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

4 - I've added them from her mothers wikipedia page which uses offline sources, I assume they are accurate. CT55555(talk) 14:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

5- I agree. I suspect this is PR/PROMO motivated words. I've deleted most of this, but kept the location as I could find a reliable source for that, written by her mother. CT55555(talk) 14:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

6 - I agree. I've done some light copy editing to make it flow better from the proceeding sentences. CT55555(talk) 14:28, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

7 - I think the wording was unnecessarily careful, nobody disputed the claim, so I changed it to simply state the facts, rather than suggest there was a counter narrative. CT55555(talk) 14:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

8 - She made the promise to drop her status that same month and I've updated the article to say that. CT55555(talk) 14:42, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

@User:An anonymous username, not my real name this concludes my edits in response to your agreeable, helpful, and clear feedback. Please let me know if you feel any further edits are necessary to meet Good Article status. CT55555(talk) 14:43, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for being a little late, but it looks ready now. I will pass it. An anonymous username, not my real name 01:59, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your clear and agreeable approach to this process! I am delighted with the outcome. CT55555(talk) 02:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 21:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Akshata Murty

• ... that Akshata Murty is the wife of British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak? Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/15/rishi-sunaks-wife-may-hold-clue-budget/ for the wife part.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Jemma Mitchell case
  • Comment: wanted to make a hook about Murty being richer than queen Elizabeth but that fact isn't in the article so...

Improved to Good Article status by CT55555 (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 23:55, 19 December 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - n

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Onegreatjoke: Everything seems okay except for the hook. It doesn't seem particularly interesting or captivating. Could you come up with a few others instead? Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:43, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead: How about alt1 "... that Akshata Murty was richer than Queen Elizabeth II?" Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:56, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Sounds great, but there would need to be a citation for that, and I think it should be in the article as well. Please let me know when both have been done. Thanks, Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:05, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead: I've placed it in the article with a citation in the career and investments section. Onegreatjoke (talk) 16:13, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Great. Approving this nomination. Unlimitedlead (talk) 16:14, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

@Unlimitedlead and Onegreatjoke: I'd like to see a bit more context in the hook, and possibly use a living example to avoid the awkward use of "was". How about:

• ALT2: ... that Akshata Murty, wife of British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, is richer than King Charles III?

I've also added an image. Thanks! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 09:46, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: @Onegreatjoke: Looks fine to me. Unlimitedlead (talk) 14:22, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Taxes

I'd like to change this sentence:

"If Murty pays UK taxes on her worldwide income, but retains her non-domiciliary status, she can benefit from a provision in a 1956 treaty that was designed to help avoid double taxation of Indian citizens in India as well as the UK."

...using this quote from the referenced article, which provides more context/clarity:

"Non-dom status "wears off" after 15 years and the person is subject to all tax requirements of a UK citizen - including on their estate. But there is an exception for Indian citizens around inheritance tax. A technicality means that even if Ms Murty agrees to pay UK taxes on her worldwide income, but retains her non-dom status, she can still benefit from a provision in a 1956 treaty that was designed to stop Indian citizens being double-taxed on their estates in the UK and India....India abolished inheritance tax in the 1980s, but this tax exemption was never revoked. So Ms Murty could have her estate taxed there at zero upon her death, rather than in the UK at 40% - saving £280m on her £700m stake in the company founded by her father."Lena Key (talk) 18:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)