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Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2010 September 29

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September 29

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File:Schräge Musik cannon.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Keep. No consensus that the image is replaceable by a free image (quite the opposite in fact), and no such replacement has been presented. Jafeluv (talk) 20:05, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:Schräge Musik cannon.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by Bzuk (notify | contribs | uploads).Update: When does this review end? FWiW Bzuk (talk) 15:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC).[reply]
  • This non-free image appears to be replaceable. It is being used in the Schräge Musik‎ article to show the components of the system. A free diagram could be created which would serve the same purpose. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Historically notable subject, justifying the fair-use here. By "replaceable" do you mean that you're offering to create a derivative work of it? Because I know I'm not, and I don't see another rush of volunteers offering. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:38, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep After a request from another editor for more details on the Schräge Musik installation to illustrate the article, this digitized image was taken from a contemporary 1944-era manual and represents an accurate and extremely rare diagram. Additional requests have also been made to illustrate the aiming system which is another aspect of illustrating the article that has so far, been a fruitless search for images. As can be ascertained from the extensive search for references, the use of a unique image clearly indicates that a historically significant image is all that is available. Redrawing or creating an equivalent image that provides the same level of verifiable information is extremely unlikely. Note that all items in the diagram have now been identified in both the original German terminology as well as English translations. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 14:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC).[reply]
  • Keep This is definitley worth keeping - this is the first detail of how the thing actually worked and was installed and it would be pointless to simply re create the diagram. Its historiocity is of itself of interest.
  • Keep Well now, not that often that I can vote keep. Wonderfully useful image, I doubt it could be recreated for free use without being identical in every way, which would itself violate the law. Sven Manguard Talk 23:50, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep If it's from a Luftwaffe manual, it may not even be under copyright in the US.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Definitely from a Luftwaffe manual; similar images of Bf 110 and He 219 armament, from their respective manuals, appear in Aders History of the German Night Fighter Force 1914-1945 (1979) without copyright tags. (Good site on the Do 335 BTW) Minorhistorian (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Jeremy At Grandfather Mountain.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete. Jafeluv (talk) 20:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:Jeremy At Grandfather Mountain.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by Art10 (notify | contribs | uploads).
File:Jeremy in front of Washington Monument.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

File:1987 LAPD.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete. Jafeluv (talk) 20:11, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:1987 LAPD.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by Jimmy brousseau (notify | contribs | uploads).
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2MAVALV.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by SchuminWeb (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 02:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:2MAVALV.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by Levijustus (notify | contribs | uploads).
File:MAVALV.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
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File:MAVarughese.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by SchuminWeb (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 02:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:MAVarughese.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by Levijustus (notify | contribs | uploads).
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

File:1st batch.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Partial keep. SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:07, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:1st batch.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by Burhan Ahmed (notify | contribs | uploads).
File:2nd batch xmu.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs)
File:Third graduation batch.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
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File:1stgatheringsjf.JPG

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by SchuminWeb (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 02:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:1stgatheringsjf.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by Johnedc (notify | contribs | uploads).
File:SilJeonFamily2.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
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File:1user67k.jpg

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by SchuminWeb (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 02:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:1user67k.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by 67knight (notify | contribs | uploads).
File:1user67.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs)
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File:Thermosiphon water heating system.SVG

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by SchuminWeb (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 02:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:Thermosiphon water heating system.SVG (delete | talk | history | logs) – uploaded by User:Mononomic (notify | contribs | uploads).
  • UE SVG version of a hand-drawn original. However the original system (Commons:File:Thermosiphon water heating system.JPG) is a misleading and inaccurate fabrication, bearing little relation to any real plumbing systms (hot water delivery systems like this don't rely on circulation, let alone thermosyphon circulation. It's clear WP:OR. The original author, KVDP, has a problematic track record for many images with much the same problems.
The Commons image Commons:File:Thermosiphon water heating system.JPG is now fact-tagged for the technical issues. I would also suggest moving that through the Commons deletion process, however the fact that Commons doesn't prohibit WP:OR has often been used in the past by this author to justify his right to create and upload incorrect and misleading technical diagrams. See Commons:user_talk:KVDP.
Image was in use on Thermosiphon, but I've already removed it as misleading (one of three images, same author).
My apologies to the SVG artist. The issues here have come from the hand-drawn original, not the SVG work, for which we're still grateful. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:14, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I find that this svg is excellently drawn, and aswell as my image, it can also comply to WP:OR. To make it clear that it is WP:OR, the description can be slightly modified. As for bearing little relation to any "real plumbing systems", the thermosyphon circulation can atleast reduce the amount of power the (additional) circulation pump need to have, and also reduce the consumption of electricity by the pump.
Also, I don't see why a thermosyphon circulation like this can not work with plumbing systems. It is true that it is unconventional, but it may work nonetheless. Finally, if it can't be used on its own for plumbing systems, besides adding this notion in the description, the image also provides a second function: to simply explain the working of the thermosyphon circulation (in regards to the article).
KVDP (talk) 08:22, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delivery systems just don't circulate, whether by pump or thermosyphon.
Some delivery systems do circulate (see my note at the Commons original). They are intended for convenience and instant hot water, and they have the drawback of fairly large heat losses and increased heating costs. It is thus inappropriate to regard a "more efficient" version of such a system as "green" and "low energy" (as it reduces the pump costs) when actually it's a huge waste of heat in the water to start with!
Once again (and I'm really tired of you doing this, see Commons:AN/Vandalism) you've taken a well-known and well-understood mechanism, "researched" the most fanciful cloud-cuckoo addition to this that you can (usually hydrogen storage, Stirling engines or 10-thousand ton hydrofoils), then re-drawn the lot to be misleading, confusing and just plain wrong.
Your diagram appears to be taken from a vendor of such a system (who make a number of highly dubious claims on their website) and through your ignorance of plumbing (and indeed, basic science and engineering) you've extrapolated that into an even less workable thermosyphon system. Apart from the inherent reduced efficiency of circulating instant-hot systems in general, you can't get them to work as thermosyphons unless you make them so lossy that they'd actually start delivering cold water!
Andy Dingley (talk) 13:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that hot water delivery systems generally don't circulate, and extra circulation decreases the efficiency is indeed a giant flaw in my schematic. To some degree I came to the image thinking about radiator systems, which is something different entirely. However, reflecting on this adaption of my image, simply updating the image description would suffice (I've already done so). Thus the issues are now resolved. For my original image, the cranes should be removed, I'll do this now. Can the deletion request now be dismissed ?

KVDP (talk) 08:39, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The diagram is so confused that it was initially hard to tell whether it was delivery (washbasins) or heating (radiators). However as the cold system only flows from the cold supply, it's clearly delivery (also as per the original ref). I would note in particular that heating radiators don't have cold water supplies to them!
You cannot "fix" the image, as you have just tried to, by changing its label and changing the whole function of the system. There is no way that these are radiators! Your change (which I've reverted as making things even worse) certainly doesn't mean that things are "now resolved". This image is broken beyond usefulness and there is no way to fix it (you just can't put hot water delivery and thermosyphon together into a system like this). Andy Dingley (talk) 09:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SchuminWeb (Talk) 13:18, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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