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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 4

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March 4

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Category:Holidays themed professional wrestling events

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 12#Category:Holidays themed professional wrestling events

Category:Fantastic Four (film series) drafts

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:01, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: All future Fantastic Four films will be set in the MCU, and it is unlikely any characters from the previous films will receive their own articles. As we already have Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe drafts, this category is no longer needed. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:15, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Lesbos

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:02, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, the articles in this category consistently use the title "lord". Marcocapelle (talk) 21:27, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Countries and territories by language

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 12#Category:Countries and territories by language

Category:Estonian domestic cricket competitions

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:05, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 21:02, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of the Habsburg monarchy

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:06, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename per actual category content, all subcategories are named "Archdukes of Austria". (Alternatively we may rename this category including its subcategories to "Monarchs of the Habsburg monarchy".) Marcocapelle (talk) 20:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of the Carolingian Empire

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:07, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, these are kings and emperors, i.e. monarchs. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of the Bosporan Kingdom

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename (as modified). (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:09, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Kings of the Bosporan Kingdom
Category:Monarchs of the Bosporan Kingdom
Nominator's rationale: rename, the articles in the category consistently mention "king" as the title of these rulers. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:47, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Rulers by millennium

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:13, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer, everything is already in Category:Rulers by century and Category:Pharaohs by century. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:35, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Works about sovereignty

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:13, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2000 FINA World Open Water Swimming Championships

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:14, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Category contains on 1 entry. User:Namiba 19:04, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have added the 2008 edition. Both are already in the appropriate subcategories so merging isn't necessary.--User:Namiba 23:23, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Baseball players of Italian descent

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:14, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. Either people in this category are Italian themselves, in which case they belong in Category:Italian baseball players (which is not exclusive of people having held several citizenships during their lifetime, simultaneously or not), or the place where their ancestors lived probably has little thing to do with the fact that they played baseball of all sports. There is no other category by descent for baseball players, or any other sport. Place Clichy (talk) 18:28, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Countries by language family

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:G4: recent (18 February 2023) re-creation of previously deleted category, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 January 8#Countries and territories by language family ("the 2020-01-8 CfD") and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 January 17#Countries and territories by language family ("the 2020-01-17 CfD"). It is evident that some categories just escaped the attention of the previous CfDs. Consequently, Category:Former Slavic countries must also be deleted, because Category:Slavic countries and territories was deleted in the same 2020-01-08 CfD, and if there is no such thing as "Slavic countries", then there is no such thing as "former Slavic countries". Category:Former Slavic countries should already have been deleted during the 2020-01-08 CfD, but instead, only its deleted parent Category:Slavic countries and territories was removed. Update: This leaves me no choice but to nominate the other subcategories as well. Category:Germanic countries and territories was previously nominated for deletion, resulting in no consensus (Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 19); for some weird reason, it was not included in the 2020-01-08 CfD, even though in its own 2019-03-19 CfD some people tried to defend the category by invoking Category:Romance countries and territories, Category:Slavic countries and territories, Category:Turkic countries and territories and others that were later deleted in the 2020-01-08 CfD and the 2020-01-17 CfD. The fact that the 2020-01-17 CfD already deleted Category:Turkic countries and territories‎ leaves little reason for Category:Turkic states, Category:Historical Turkic states and Category:Turkic rump states to exist (just like "Slavic countries" and "former Slavic countries"). Same goes for Category:Germanic empires and Category:Germanic kingdoms. As for Category:Iranian countries and territories, both Category:Indo-Iranian countries and territories‎ and Category:Indo-Iranian-speaking countries and territories were already deleted in these two CfDs.
The following cats are children of Category:Countries and territories by language (a legitimate container cat), in which they are pretending to be a "language", but are in fact a language family:
Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:48, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all. Some editors seem to confuse, in good faith, language family and ethnicity. In which place would an American, an Austrian, a Dutch and a Norwegian gather and say "hey, we all speak Germanic-family languages, we're all Germanic"? (Germanic may be replaced by Turkic, Iranic, Italic etc.) This notion also confuses Ancient cultures, which are often defined by ethnic or linguistic traces which can be all that's available in archaeological data, with modern nations that are, very often, pluriethnic. Place Clichy (talk) 18:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hah, well if I were on holiday 15 years ago and that situation happened, I might have made such a statement; and then that American, Austrian and Norwegian would look at me funny. xD Seriously though, I agree with what you say; all these things are pretty WP:NONDEFINING. But I don't think we need to redo this discussion, because it has already been had; we have just missed several categories during previous CfDs. I also still keep finding several cats that have so far escaped our attention, and am adding them to this list. It's pretty difficult to track all these down. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:09, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:57, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but purge content -- Categorising countries by language group seems legitimate to me. However English is not purely a Germanic language, but a diglot between a Germanic language (Old English) and Romance languages (French/Latin). America (ie USA) should similarly be eliminated. Germanic kingdoms and empires need merging; also all the Turkic ones and (separately) Iranic. The fact that this refers to a language group can be explained in headnotes. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:07, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What you're suggesting seems very WP:ARBITRARYCAT and WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. Besides, Category:Romance countries and territories and Category:Turkic countries and territories were already deletes 3 years ago as WP:NONDEFINING; I don't think such arguments hold much merit anymore. The only proper "purge" seems to delete all similar ill-defined categories, which is exactly what I'm proposing. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:08, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Winners in the Survivor franchise

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 12#Category:Winners in the Survivor franchise

Category:Fictional Silver Star recipients

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: As with the Bronze Star, not worth a category. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:15, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional Bronze Star Medal recipients

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Medal of Honor or Victoria Cross, sure maybe, but the Bronze Star is too far down the line to merit a category. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For the relevant editing guidelines, see WP:NONDEFINING, especially the sections on WP:OCAWARD and WP:TRIVIALCAT. - RevelationDirect (talk) 14:23, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Western Yan rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename & upmerge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:18, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, as discussed previously it is uncertain whether "wang" translates as king or prince, but in any case Western Yan was a monarchy. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:20, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tuyuhun rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:19, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, the articles mention both king and khan, but in any case Tuyuhun was a monarchy. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:13, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Türgesh rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:19, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, the articles in the category consistently refer to the title as "khagan". Marcocapelle (talk) 11:07, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Toungoo

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 12#Category:Rulers of Toungoo

Category:Rulers of Sukhothai

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:21, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, per article title Sukhothai Kingdom. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:00, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sumerian rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:21, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, for consistency with its subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:56, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Chaghaniyan

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:22, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename per article title Principality of Chaghaniyan. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:49, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per inconsistent terminology, and etymology (discussed below), not per article title Principality of Chaghaniyan. I think Principality of Chaghaniyan is a WP:REDUNDANTFORK of Chaghaniyan, and should be merged back into the latter. If the "principality" was a monarchy that existed "5th-10th century CE", as the infobox claims, it spans the entire existence of Chaghaniyan as a region, and only the section "Muhtajid rule and aftermath" was omitted from the fork for no apparent reason.
In any case, the term 'principality' seems strange, as the head of state isn't called "prince" anywhere; the article speaks of 'king', 'queen', and 'lord'. As we agreed previously, whenever there is difficulty in translating a title and no consistency in literature, "monarch" would be the best default option. There are also some etymological reasons for picking "monarch". Persian Wikipedia gives the title چغان خدا (Chaghan Khudah on English Wikipedia); the latter word en:wikt:خدا (xodâ) can mean [1] God, god [2] lord [3] patron [4] chief [5] master [6] owner. In its archaic Middle Persian form en:wikt:خدای (xwdây, Xvaday) it simply means "God"/"god". According to en:wikt:god#English, there is no Proto-Indo-European connection between the English word "god", going back to a verb meaning "to invoke", and these Iranian/Persian words; the latter are reconstructed as en:wikt:Reconstruction:Proto-Iranian/hwatā́wā, from "self" "power/strength", meaning [1] lord, sovereign, king [2] god. I suppose this is the Persian equivalent of "autocrat" (self-strength/power) and comes very close to the literal meaning of "monarch" (alone-reign).
I was also curious whether چغان (cheghan) might just be a Persianised form of the Turkic word khagan, but no; that is en:wikt:خاقان (xâqân), and it certainly wouldn't explain the longer Middle Persian form (چَگینیگان Čagīnīgān). The etymology of this word is not easy; it doesn't have to be derived from khagan, and it's probably just a toponym. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:53, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rouran rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:22, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, per article title Rouran Khaganate, and this is the title that the articles in the category consistently mention. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:44, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Osroene

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:22, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, the articles in the category consistently mention "king" as the title. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:38, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cham rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:22, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename, per main article King of Champa. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:17, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Estonian catch wrestlers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Catch wrestlers. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:23, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 09:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Sennar

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 12#Category:Rulers of Sennar

Category:Swedish Army brigadier generals

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:24, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 09:25, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:East Slavic literature

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 12#Category:East Slavic literature

Category:Legendary rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename & reparent. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:27, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename and re-parent to Category:Monarchs per actual content of the category. There aren't any notable legendary presidents or legendary prime ministers. Marcocapelle (talk) 00:02, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps all this requires a new, separate nomination? It doesn't really challenge the proposition of renaming from "rulers" to "monarchs", but it might be helpful to consider changing "legendary" to "legendary and mythological", or to reformulate it as "Monarchs in mythology/myths and legends" per Category:Kings in Norse mythology and legends. Because all of its subcats seem to suffer the same problem of distinguishing between legendary and mythological. I do think it's helpful to have gendered categories for kings and queens, and items which don't qualify for the given dynastic title ("king, queen" etc.) can be moved around or removed, that may not require a name change. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • It probably requires a different discussion. As far as I am aware of, the word "mythological" is more often associated with (extinct) religions, while "legendary" is used mostly in entirely non-religious context. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not really. We have articles on Jewish mythology, Christian mythology, and Islamic mythology. The main article on myth defines it as containing non-human characters, "such as gods, demigods, and other supernatural figures." The main article on legend describes as depicting "human actions" which are perceived to take place " in human history". Dimadick (talk) 20:51, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think we are saying the same. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:11, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
          I think Dimadick is saying something else, namely: myths = stories involving non-human characters, legends = stories involving human characters. Your understanding is: myths = stories from (extinct) religions, legends = non-religious stories. My own understanding is: myths = stories that aren't true and almost nobody believes in (anymore), legends = stories that are dubious, containing a mix of fact and fiction, and are believed by some, but rejected by others. So our understanding of what these terms means is actually rather different. The common element between all of them, however, is that legends are generally a bit more credible, while myths are seen as having no legitimacy (anymore), or never had it in the first place. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree with Marcocapelle, this should be a later discussion after closing. Such impatience. Thank goodness we don't rely on personal understanding. There are professionals who develop these concepts. We have well referenced articles on Myth and Legend. Categories will follow. Mistakes will be rectified.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:52, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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