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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 March 11

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March 11

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Category:Songs written by Takeoff (rapper)

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:15, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The artist's biography was listed for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Takeoff (rapper), with result of "delete." His songwriting efforts are mostly through the group Migos. Binksternet (talk) 20:46, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Categories are to bring articles together that have a significant or notable common attributes, for songs, the songwriters are such common attributes. The existence of an article is not relevant to categories and there are no guidelines supporting the view of the nominator (that an article must exist to support a category). There have been, however, many instances where a category has been nominated for this reason and nearly all have failed. The last relevant nomination was Songs written by D.O.E. and in light of that decision, I have no objection to this category being renamed Songs written by Kirshnik Ball, if there is further agreement, bearing in mind that Takeoff was a member of Migos and known as such.
NB I am the creator of the category, which existed before the creation of the article. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Non-commercial use only images

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: relisted, see here. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:02, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary category layer that conflates files tagged for speedy deletion with legitimately used non-free files. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 16:25, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2018 (UTC) [reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Presidents of the University of Santiago, Chile Student Federation

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:07, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Has only one entry. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:51, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

American Latter Day Saints from Missouri

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:09, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello - Let me suggest that we delete Category:American Latter Day Saints from Missouri, which is currently empty. Its purpose is served by Category:Latter Day Saints from Missouri, which follows the naming convention of all the sibling "Latter Day Saints from _______" categories. Thanks KConWiki (talk) 18:21, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Political prisoners

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:11, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deleting
Nominator's rationale: the term "political prisoner" is inherently and irredeemably POV. Nearly everyone agrees that some people are political prisoners, but there is no accepted, neutral way to define whether any individual is a political prisoner.
Similar categories have been deleted at CFD 2008 September 17, CFD 2008 September 11 and CFD 2006 November 22. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:22, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There are many terms which could be viewed as POV but we allow in Wikipedia because WP:RS use them. For example, the term "terrorist" is a contentious label, as WP:LABEL states, but there are hundreds of articles/categories/templates which use the terms terrorist/terrorism. The term "political prisoner" is widely used by reliable sources and we have had an article on the subject, Political prisoner, for the last 16 years. If the article is acceptable why aren't categories? If they are reliable sources which state that someone is a political prisoner why can't we categorise them as such on Wikipedia?--Obi2canibe (talk) 15:30, 3 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NPOV is v clear that where sources disagree, we do not simply take some sort of majoritarian assessment of sources; instead we should be "representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic"
Categories are a binary on/of switch: an article is either in a category or nor in it. Categories do not allow us to say Category:Political prisoner according to US mainstream news except Fox, European news except Ruritanian, no Asian news, 56.7% of political scientists polled by PollsRus in 2007, but only 14.3% of academics of the Ruritanian Studies Association in a 2016 survey .. but per WP:NPOV that would be the only valid way to do it.
In such cases we have a topic category for articles on the concept, but do not have a set category of examples. Parallels include:
  1. Category:Homophobia and the deleted Category:Homophobes
  2. Category:Terrorism and the deleted Category:Terrorists
  3. Category:Islamophobia and the deleted Category:Islamophobes
@Obi2canibe:, please do read the previous CFDs, where this was all discussed in much detail. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 17:10, 11 March 2018 (UTC) [reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Zaporozhian Cossacks

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 April 12#Category:Zaporozhian Cossacks. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename in order to distinct the two categories more clearly: the first is a history category (see Zaporozhian Host), the second is a biographies category. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:35, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ukrainian Cossack nobility

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 April 12#Category:Ukrainian Cossack nobility. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename to align with Category:Zaporozhian Cossack people‎ and Category:Zaporizhian Cossacks noble families‎ and to use a contemporary category name than an anachronistic 21st-century category name. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:20, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • See also:
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_March_10#Category:Ukrainian_Cossack_officers
Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_March_18#Category:Ukrainian_military_personnel_of_the_Khmelnytsky_Uprising
- Marcocapelle (talk) 12:28, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Aspire (political party) councillors

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:55, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Empty category. This is a small local party represented on Tower Hamlets council. Being a local councillor is not inherently notable, so the 10 current councillors are unlikely to ever get their own articles. Ergo, as per WP:SMALLCAT, this should be deleted. Bondegezou (talk) 11:41, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tower Hamlets Independent Group councillors

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. Delete !voters far outnumber keep !voters, but the nominator's blatant misrepresentation of WP:SMALLCAT was accepted by most keep !voters, leaving their !votes ill-founded in policy. For the record, WP:SMALLCAT's current version says Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme (underlining added by me)--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:45, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This is a former grouping (not even a formal political party) on Tower Hamlets council. Two-thirds of them have now formed a new party, Aspire. The only person in this category is Rabina Khan, who left the Group before Aspire was created (and has formed a rival party, People's Alliance of Tower Hamlets). The other former members of this group are unlikely to ever get articles as being a local councillor is not inherently notable. Ergo, as per WP:SMALLCAT, this should be deleted. Bondegezou (talk) 11:39, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – WP:SMALLCAT doesn't apply here as the categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. It's useful have a category system which separates out councillors with leaders of the party thus providing navigational links to Wikipedia pages.
Also, not being a formal political party has no bearing on Wikipedia, whether the article is notable does. The argument that other members of the group unlikely to get articles also not a valid argument to delete either but just chrystal balling. Tanbircdq (talk) 12:49, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Bondegezou: That is a tough question because some editors think that politicians by party tree really is a case of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. Personally I would support a further upmerge, as I do not see the point of keeping large amounts of very poorly populated categories (esp in many small countries) and besides we currently have many politicians who have not been categorized by party and I can't see any harm there. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:31, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Leaders of People's Alliance of Tower Hamlets

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. Delete !voters far outnumber keep !voters, but the nominator's blatant misrepresentation of WP:SMALLCAT was accepted by most keep !voters, leaving their !votes ill-founded in policy. For the record, WP:SMALLCAT's current version says Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme (underlining added by me)--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:46, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This is a small, new, local party. It has only ever had one leader so far. If it persists and has future leaders, they will probably not be notable as local councillours are not inherently notable. Thus, delete as per WP:SMALLCAT. Bondegezou (talk) 11:34, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP:SMALLCAT does say, "Note also that this criterion does not preclude all small categories; a category which does have realistic potential for growth, such as a category for holders of a notable political office, may be kept even if only a small number of its articles actually exist at the present time." However, I don't read "a small number of […] articles" to mean one, nor is leadership of PATH "a notable political office", nor do I see a "realistic potential for growth".Bondegezou (talk) 13:35, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Leaders of Tower Hamlets First

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. Delete !voters far outnumber keep !voters, but the nominator's blatant misrepresentation of WP:SMALLCAT was accepted by most keep !voters, leaving their !votes ill-founded in policy. For the record, WP:SMALLCAT's current version says Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme (underlining added by me) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:50, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Tower Hamlets First was a short-lived party, now wound up. It only ever had one leader, thus there is no point in a category, as per WP:SMALLCAT Bondegezou (talk) 11:31, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Psychiatry organizations

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:37, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Two sides of the same coin Rathfelder (talk) 10:35, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Questions, isn't mental health a lot broader than psychiatry? Within the countries I also see subcats about addiction and autism, which are usually unrelated to psychiatry. And if merged, shouldn't the country subcategories be nominated in conjunction? Marcocapelle (talk) 13:40, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep -- I agree. Psychiatry is about the medical treatment of mental illness. There are also other treatments, such as counselling, which might be better classified as psychology. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:38, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Depression organizations

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge to Category:Mental health organizations. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:42, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Poorly defined. None of the organisations are restricted to depression. 2/4 are related to bipolar disorder, which is a rather different condition. Rathfelder (talk) 10:29, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question shouldn't we merge it to Category:Mental health organizations like the nomination above? Marcocapelle (talk) 11:30, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge to Category:Mental health organizations. We definitely don't need to be subcategorizing them by whether they concentrate on depression or bipolar disorder, but the parent category is appropriate. Bearcat (talk) 23:13, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retain: lets find something useful to do.
    First, Wikipedia is still evolving. Let it remain to aid future growth.
    Second, several times more people search on google by "depression" (which is a centuries old valid english word, not a slang) and not by the more recently minted jargon phrase "mental health disorder".
    Third, upmerge is not advised because catch-all term is too generic e.g. we can not upmerge various types of Indian breads such as Naan, Roti, Wrap roti, Rumali roti, Makki di roti, Roti canai, Paratha into pancake, or further upmerge into bread? Where is the end? Shall we merge whole wikipedia into one aticle with one sentence and one category?
    Fourth, about none of the organisations being restricted to depression, why those have to be restricted to just depression because an article may belong to multiple categories and does not have to be restricted to just one, this is not a valid argument.
    Fifth, this is just a newly created category articles in which will expand with time, only if over-zealous custodians let it stay. No deletion please.
    Sixth, if someone has created a category then give them goodfaith.
    Seventh, why waste time in such trivial stuff when this time can be utilised in creating new content? Too much time, very little to do? Wikipedia has thousands of redlinks awaiting to be created, we all must go there instead of wasting time here in being excessively bureaucratic about this stuff. Wikipedia is turning into well-intentioned over-zealous million-unmanageable-rules ghetto, which is slowly killing it. Please use self-filters, is my bureaucratic proposal adding any value? Return on time invested (ROI) rule says, everyone here should ask themselves, instead of commenting here or making such proposal to destroy someone's work, how many more wonderfully useful things they might have created. What do we wanna be - creator versus destroyer (of others work)?
    Finally, watch this short funny video with english subtitles from the movie 3 Idiots. Are you doing something that excited you and other editors or just being butchers with too much time on hand?
    PS:, I am not related to the person who create this category. I randomly arrived here. 202.156.182.84 (talk) 07:07, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't retain, only one of the four articles is about depression specifically. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:33, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • <joke>Merge with Category:New Deal agencies.</joke> Upmerge; depression is an aspect of mental health. If we end up with a lot of depression organizations, we can always recreate. Nyttend (talk) 22:53, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Category:Mental health organizations. One of the organisations relates to a very specific kind of depression. The rest cover various mental disorders. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:29, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Operas set in Iberia

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge articles to Category:Operas set in Spain, but sub-categories must be merged to Category:Operas set in Europe. – Fayenatic London 23:05, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: All the operas in this category are set in Spain. Similar categories exist for virtually all other countries in Europe. Smerus (talk) 09:58, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually forget this. I have now reclassified all the operas that were here as Category:Operas set in Spain or Category:Operas set in Portugal as appropriate, and have made both of these categories of Category:Operas set in Iberia. Sorry to have troubled y'all.--Smerus (talk) 12:28, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Washington Senators (1961–1971) personnel

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Washington Senators (MLB 1961–1971). (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:18, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only has two subcategories both of which are already categorized 'Washington Senators (1961–1971)'. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 03:49, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Turkmenistan dentists

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep without prejudice against opening a fresh discussion with a batch nomination. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:22, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Unlikely to ever have more than one member. --Michael WhiteT·C 02:29, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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