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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yeshiyah Amariel

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete--Patar knight - chat/contributions 21:00, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeshiyah Amariel

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Yeshiyah Amariel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Not notable person, written by possible sock of Yamariel (talk · contribs) as advertising. Couldn't find reliable sources for this. Diego Grez what's up? 19:07, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep During the US elections I actually copied the original info of this page from the Obama wiki page a while ago... but reading the person's edits on the page, I see that he has added information that I didn't bother research at the time. Some notable links on the Obama issue are http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/23/politics/main4284922.shtml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/3330446/Palestinians-toil-for-Barack-Obama-win.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jan-mcgirk/obama-in-ramallah_b_114639.html http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081027.wgazaobama27/BNStory/R.M. VAUGHAN/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25810989/ http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hqblog on page 310 might not mention name but does show the Obama campaign view of the things stated in these other articles. and although I did see the original news report that email from the report kinda confirms that the bad youtube copy of the video wasn't edited. But I still wouldn't link that on the main page.Prestonpayne (talk) 06:53, 11 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prestonpayne (talk • contribs) [reply]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/world/americas/23iht-obama.4.14733236.html http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95236433 http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/objects/pages/PrintArticle.jhtml?itemNo=1014346 http://jews4obama.com/update/issue7/ http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080723/NEWS0302/80723004 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3729720,00.html (which is very weird, but notable). The funny thing about these articles is that each calls one or another of the three main people in this organization the Head of the group, but then he states there is no leader of the group and then politically distances himself from Amariel after he was accused of being Messianic.. funny. http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=1621&cpage=1#comments and the other on Amariel's org. this one is a third party. http://www.meirpanim.org/page2_e.php?name=Partners Prestonpayne (talk) 06:53, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep- Diego you can't just keep posting Delete on this page and make that count as more than one say... I just looked over all of these articles Payne put up and they just add 13 secondary sources to the others I referenced on the talk page... all of them are third-party and secondary sources... either news groups or otherwise which don't all speak of the same event such as the Obama rally in Israel mentioned in some of them; rather they all speak of the same group "Israelis for Obama" and the same campaign, the "Israel for Obama Campaign" which I managed as confirmed by both the Israelis for Obama group, the Israel for Obama blog and a third party newspaper and a television interview. 2 years ago one could search these topics and easily find our group in the news. These facts could not be disputed... but time has made some of the sources like those in Time Magazine and others hard to find online. Your bias has made you forget Wikipedia policy that "All articles should be judged solely by applicable content and inclusion guidelines and policies" You question notability but I am even mentioned in a book on "Jewish American Political Organizations" at http://books.google.com/books?id=yCqMSQAACAAJ&dq="Yeshiyah Amariel" -inpublisher:icon&as_brr=0&ei=VEdoTLWvCpWyNrS4pcsE&cd=1

The fact is that you're not trying to find sources or make this article a better one... you're only trying to justify deleting this page based on your own bias.Yeshiyah (talk) 20:35, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I've indented both your !votes because you can't do it more than once. The sources shouldn't all be about Israel for Obama, they should be about Amariel himself. They should talk about him as the main topic. —fetch·comms 00:15, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If Bill Gates runs Microsoft then his page is more than likely to focus on his work with Microsoft, Me I ran the Israel for Obama Campaign... it can't be changed. But I also do believe that this page could be written better, yet if I start adding to it I'll be accused of self-promotion again. So its up to one of you (especially Payne). Yeshiyah (talk) 01:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No, that's why we have a separate page on Microsoft. If the person has received significant coverage, then we want the article on the person. If it is the organization, then we want the organization. You can't have references for Israel for Obama and say that is significant coverage for the person when they don't discuss him. —fetch·comms 00:13, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well if you would like to create a page on Israel for Obama you are welcomed to do so... the group is very likely to be in the news for the next election cycle so why not.Yeshiyah (talk) 04:58, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (t) (c) 20:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's funny Cunard because I did the same search with the obvious english change in my Hebrew name and came up with at least one reliable sources... and several on the other related parts to this article part 1 part 2... My point is that there are many sources out there but since Obama's won the election most things published on the subject are no longer at the top of the search food chain... underground unless one knows were to look for them... I don't expect for them to resurface until the next election cycle and the issue of Israel comes up again. Yet I am find slowly more and more, but most others in this discussion seem too lazy to do any real research. I also just ran into another from Chicago... http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1070448,obiran072308.article and there are more on the search links part 1 and 2 above. Back in 2008 I know how much was published on me and the Israel for Obama campaign (in one way or another)... so I know there is much more to be found.Yeshiyah (talk) 04:58, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The first link (part 1) is to a Google News Archive search for "Israel for Obama". This article is about "Yeshiyah Amariel", not "Israel for Obama", so the sources must be about the person, not the group. My same rationale applies for the "part 2" search which is for "Israelis for Obama" and http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1070448,obiran072308.article.

These sources demonstrate that Israel for Obama is notable, not Yeshiyah Amariel, so I encourage you to create an article about the group instead if you have more information than that already present in Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008#"Israel for Obama" Campaign. Cunard (talk) 17:25, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also there is a completely different article from Nov 2008 in Dutch with significant coverage on the subject and myself... http://www.nujij.nl/obama-kreeg-77-van-de-joodse-stemmen.3988972.lynkx .. if you translate it you see it goes very into depth on my part.Yeshiyah (talk) 05:20, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yeshiyah Amariel is mentioned twice in http://www.nujij.nl/obama-kreeg-77-van-de-joodse-stemmen.3988972.lynkx. The article is primarily about the Israel for Obama group instead of the person. Cunard (talk) 17:25, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Cunard I agree with you on both points... from the information found here I think a page should be made on Israel for Obama... but on the question of notability for Amariel, he still is very valid... I question if he needs a full feature article on him to qualify as notable... or just significant coverage. Remember "it need not be the main topic of the source material." Both he and I have provided effect very separate sources to prove notability, but not detail... but there are many unquestioned pages on Wikipedia with much less reliable sources. Either way he will be in some way mentioned on either page. In my opinion I think these sources shown establish a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion on Wikipedia as a page...Prestonpayne (talk) 08:16, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that full featured articles are unnecessary for a person to have significant coverage to establish notability. The problem here is that Yeshiyah Amariel has not received such coverage. The sources I have reviewed are either unreliable or, if reliable, are one or two sentence mentions. This does not establish notability, and I encourage proponents of keeping this article to channel their efforts into creating an article about Israel for Obama—an article that employs no less than three reliable sources that cover the subject in detail; this will ensure that Israel for Obama will not be deleted. Cunard (talk) 22:59, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I keep saying that I've given many interviews I know that there is allot more out there on me and Israel for Obama... yet I can say where it all has gone over the last 2 years. However I did find another source on this subject and myself... the question becomes is this significant coverage enough for you? http://world-news.info/2010/07/06/black-jew-paves-the-way-in-israel-for-obama/ --Yeshiyah (talk) 12:24, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I continue to hear statements from some of you about the reliability of the sources given... All of them here are third party... yet if they still seem questionable to you I refer you to Wikipedia policy on Questionable sources... they are allowed. Plus, for a page on me sites connected to me can also be used... just not as primary sources that make up the article. Yeshiyah (talk) 12:24, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Questionable sources do not establish notability. You have not provided a third-party reliable source that provides significant coverage about Yeshiyah Amariel. Cunard (talk) 15:59, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I just gave one above... the second is a Dead link of a news interview on Swiss Tv Grossi, Gianluca (23.07.2008). "campagna per Obama Israele", Telegiornale News, TSI1 Swetizerland. links: "rtsp://62.2.180.146:554/tsi/tg/2008/tg_07232008-450k.rm?start=00:15:23.981&end=00:17:41.998&cloakport=80,554", "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeeFfVJWhgE" and the third is an Offline source from a book on "Jewish American Political Organizations" at http://books.google.com/books?id=yCqMSQAACAAJ&dq="Yeshiyah Amariel" -inpublisher:icon&as_brr=0&ei=VEdoTLWvCpWyNrS4pcsE&cd=1 and none of this is to mention the book I wrote or any other bio information on me located elsewhere... Yeshiyah (talk) 21:15, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The lack of many online sources on this subject right now is due to Dead Links and Recentism via a news spike.... Regardless, Offline sources and Dead Links can still be used as reliable third party sources even if they are no longer found on the internet. In reality we all know that Israel for Obama is very notable for Wikipedia... a fact made more obvious with this audio interview I found http://www.pri.org/theworld/?q=node/19620 . The fact that I headed a notable group means that I'm notable... So my page should be no different than Debra DeLee's, Henry Jones, Israel Policy Forum, Progressive Jewish Alliance, or many many others. Because this page isn't over complicated or long it is fine as a small bio because it doesn't provide too many details about subject outside of my work... This page shouldn't be deleted it should have been questioned for sources and marked for citations of sources or categorized as a stub (such as Gordon Nixon, Jack Gilpin, Shmil Ben Ari, Anat Elimelech and so on and so on for almost endless other people who are notable, but without loads of information currently supplied for them), but this page should not have been singled out and nominated for deletion passed all other solutions to the problem. Yeshiyah (talk) 21:15, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: First Ref in article links to a website called "foxcbs.com". Website is unaffiliated with either CBS or with Fox, article cited ("Black Jew Paves the Way in 'Israel for Obama'") is listed in page history as originally being at "www.obowma.com". I am also concerned that this "foxcbs" website has a tracking feature/column (further down on the right-hand side) that clearly lists at least American visitors by location/town and how long ago they were there after they visit the site (the feature apparently does not capture information from all visitors). Shearonink (talk) 06:06, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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