- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. czar 04:13, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
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- Unit 2 Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Current sourcing is includes affiliated sources, press releases and some passing mentions, but nothing that meets the requirements of WP:NCORP. I looked for better sourcing online, but didn't find anything that would meet the expectations. GirthSummit (blether) 18:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. GirthSummit (blether) 18:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. GirthSummit (blether) 18:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for your feedback. Unit 2 Games is the creator of the upcoming Stadia game Crayta, about which I'm currently also writing a WP article. I thought the sources on gamesindustry.biz and The Verge would be sufficient to meet Notability requirements (significant, independent, reliable and secondary). As for the Press release and press kit: they are only referenced for basic company details which iirc is passable as a source in that case. Could you please more specifically explain why you think the sources aren't sufficient? Then I can see if I can improve them. For what it's worth; I also think a certain amount of notability will arise once Crayta comes out July 1st and independent reviews start coming out. Yogarine (talk) 22:01, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- The gamesindustry.biz source is a rehashed press release - routine coverage padded out with a few quotes from the CEO. The Verge article only mentions the company in a couple of sentences. Neither of these approach WP:CORPDEPTH. Perhaps notability will be there after the release of the game, but per WP:TOOSOON, we wait until the sources are there before we write an article. Since you've indicated that you're also writing about the game, can I ask you to declare whether you have any connection with the company? GirthSummit (blether) 10:52, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback! I've already removed the mention of the investment because indeed there is no source but a press release. I also added an additional reference to GamesRadar that includes an interview with Unit 2 Games. If that's not enough, then I guess that currently most of the sourceable notability comes from the game the company is releasing (even if, on a personal note, the company has an interesting history and focusses on inclusivity and employee wellbeing).
There are plenty of other sources about Crayta specifically, although most of those only mention the company in passing, if at all, or are not reputable or independent enough to be included as sources. Is the notability of a game enough to warrant an article for the game's developer, or does that mean that this this article should redirect to the game's article until the company itself has had more significant coverage? If it's the latter, then that does confuse me somewhat considering articles like Rebellion Warwick seem less notable and yet do exist.
Finally, no, I don't have any connection with the company. I'm just excited for Crayta and figured it was notable enough to deserve an article. I created the Unit 2 Games article first for completeness and so I can link to it in the Crayta article. Yogarine (talk) 13:20, 21 June 2020 (UTC)- So, interviews don't really contribute towards notability - anything coming out of the mouths of the people involved in the company is primary, rather than secondary. This is discussed in more detail at WP:INTERVIEW. Notability isn't inherited, so a non-notable company might produce a notable game (or vide versa); what we would normally do in those circumstances is set up a redirect from the company's name to article about the game, and include a few lines about the company in the article about the game. The company's history and ethos may be interesting, but that's not a reason to keep an article - and remember, without reliable independent secondary sources, all we know is that they present themselves as having a focus on inclusivity and employee well-being. Maybe they do, or maybe it's a clever marketing stance - I don't know, and we can't say anything about it until a truly independent source says that it is so. As for Rebellion Warwick - that's not relevant to this discussion (WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS), Wikipedia has loads of articles that ought to be deleted, so if you don't think the sources there establish notability then by all means nominate it for deletion. Thanks for confirming you have no connection with the subject. GirthSummit (blether) 14:35, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Thank's for clearing that up. For what it's worth, Unit 2 Games was named one of the best places to work by gamesindustry.biz, although I doubt that changes much in the context of this discussion.
So, I guess I'll keep an eye open for substantial, secondary sources as they come out. Can you perhaps give some examples of sources I should look out for? E.g. sources that assert notability for similar articles. Thank you very much for taking the time to explain these things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yogarine (talk • contribs) 15:48, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Thank's for clearing that up. For what it's worth, Unit 2 Games was named one of the best places to work by gamesindustry.biz, although I doubt that changes much in the context of this discussion.
- So, interviews don't really contribute towards notability - anything coming out of the mouths of the people involved in the company is primary, rather than secondary. This is discussed in more detail at WP:INTERVIEW. Notability isn't inherited, so a non-notable company might produce a notable game (or vide versa); what we would normally do in those circumstances is set up a redirect from the company's name to article about the game, and include a few lines about the company in the article about the game. The company's history and ethos may be interesting, but that's not a reason to keep an article - and remember, without reliable independent secondary sources, all we know is that they present themselves as having a focus on inclusivity and employee well-being. Maybe they do, or maybe it's a clever marketing stance - I don't know, and we can't say anything about it until a truly independent source says that it is so. As for Rebellion Warwick - that's not relevant to this discussion (WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS), Wikipedia has loads of articles that ought to be deleted, so if you don't think the sources there establish notability then by all means nominate it for deletion. Thanks for confirming you have no connection with the subject. GirthSummit (blether) 14:35, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback! I've already removed the mention of the investment because indeed there is no source but a press release. I also added an additional reference to GamesRadar that includes an interview with Unit 2 Games. If that's not enough, then I guess that currently most of the sourceable notability comes from the game the company is releasing (even if, on a personal note, the company has an interesting history and focusses on inclusivity and employee wellbeing).
- The gamesindustry.biz source is a rehashed press release - routine coverage padded out with a few quotes from the CEO. The Verge article only mentions the company in a couple of sentences. Neither of these approach WP:CORPDEPTH. Perhaps notability will be there after the release of the game, but per WP:TOOSOON, we wait until the sources are there before we write an article. Since you've indicated that you're also writing about the game, can I ask you to declare whether you have any connection with the company? GirthSummit (blether) 10:52, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for your feedback. Unit 2 Games is the creator of the upcoming Stadia game Crayta, about which I'm currently also writing a WP article. I thought the sources on gamesindustry.biz and The Verge would be sufficient to meet Notability requirements (significant, independent, reliable and secondary). As for the Press release and press kit: they are only referenced for basic company details which iirc is passable as a source in that case. Could you please more specifically explain why you think the sources aren't sufficient? Then I can see if I can improve them. For what it's worth; I also think a certain amount of notability will arise once Crayta comes out July 1st and independent reviews start coming out. Yogarine (talk) 22:01, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Promotional article for the upcoming beta. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND. scope_creepTalk 16:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- fwiw, this article is hardly promotional, nor is it for an upcoming beta. The game they are releasing is an official release. Yogarine (talk) 01:46, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 08:15, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 08:15, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Since this AfD started, Crayta has been released and the company now has extensive news coverage. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 18:45, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 18:45, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Doing a search for Unit 2 Games comes up with a lot of stuff on Crayta that only mentions them in passing. If Crayta is notable, then there should be an article for it, but notability isn't inherited and having an article about Crayta masquerading as one about Unit 2 Games isn't really the way to go about it. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Agree with the analysis of sources above. I am also unable to locate any significant coverage with in-depth information on the company and containing independent content, references to date fail the criteria for establishing notability, topic therefore fails GNG/WP:NCORP. HighKing 14:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nom --Devokewater (talk) 21:19, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.