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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Riyasat Parjamandal

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. At this time, there's a consensus to keep this article based on source presented. Let's do well to improve the article in question. (non-admin closure) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Riyasat Parjamandal

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Riyasat Parjamandal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Unable to find enough sources to show that this topic meets WP:NORG. Redirection would have been a good ATD, but the only article that mentions this party is Ghagga, a town, which seems inappropriate as a target. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 08:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 10:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. All we have, or can find, are name-drops in a small bunch of historical books whose subject is something general, i.e. "agrarian reform", "peasants in India's Non-Violent revolution," and so on. (One of them does not even mention Riyasat!) That is not how independent notability is achieved. And arguments to the tune "this is just notable for sure" or "there must be sources" do not amount to anything. -The Gnome (talk) 14:07, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - I'd say that the following goes beyond just namedropping: "The muzara struggle got impetus with the formation of the Punjab Riyasti Praja Mandal (henceforth Praja Mandal) on July 17, 1928, at Mansa in Patiala state. Though the Praja Mandal was mainly a movement of the Sikh peasantry that evolved out of the long drawn Gurudwara Reform Movement (1921-1925), the varied ideological affiliations (Akali, Socialists, Communists, and Congress) of its multi-religious membership gave it a secular platform. It instilled new spirit in the muzara movement through its Akali-Praja Mandal Dewans (religio-political congregations). It also enabled extension to its political campaigns to smaller states of East Punjab, especially the state of Nabha, Jind, and Malerkotla, for protection of rights and liberties of the people, for setting up representative institutions, and for amelioration of hardships of the Muzaras. In 1933, the Mandal started an Urdu Weekly Ryasti Duniya (Lahore) edited by Talib Hussain of Malerkotla and a Punjabi journal Desh Dardi (Amritsar) edited by Sardara Singh Yuthup of Nabha Riyasat, to provide extensive coverage of its varied activities [...] Another significant development that further strengthened the muzara movement was the formation of the Communist-led kisan committees, which were also working 'under the influence of Praja Mandal leaders ...' (Mukherjee, 2004: 252). In a nutshell, the Praja Mandal leaders, Akalis and the leaders of the Communist-led Kisan Sabhas stood with the muzaras in their tirade against the biswedars, 'who had no legitimate right to the land which had been theirs (proprietor turned Muzaras) for generations ...' (Mukherjee, 2004: 247). Supported by the Praja Mandal movement, Akalis, and Communists and awakened by new political consciousness ignited by the bloody happenings at Jallianwala Bagh (1919) at Amritsar, the Nankana massacre (1921) at Nankana Sahib Gurdwara now in Pakistan, Jaito da morcha (1924) and Morcha Guru ka Bagh, the muzaras formed their own 'Muzara Committee' in 1929 and 'Muzara War Council' in 1938–1939. In 1945, a new 21 member Muzara War Council was also formed and this 'unleashed the most militant movement in the East Punjab States'". Also, no-one here has raised neither WP:JN nor WP:SOURCESEXIST. --Soman (talk) 09:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Struggling to locate references to the article's subject in texts about something else. "Mukherjee, 2004" is about Peasants in India's Non-Violent Revolution. The references to our subject in it are few and scattered. And the historical recapitulation, starting after "in a nutshell" in your comment, is strictly your own work. -The Gnome (talk) 13:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. The comment "since Soman has provided references" is equivalent to WP:SOURCESEXIST since those "sources" do not pan out. And the comment "I believe the article is notable " falls directly under WP:JN. -The Gnome (talk) 13:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Gnome, you do realize that the Praja Mandal Riyasat was a peasants' movement? I provided a long quote which affirmed the notability of the movement, in which the wording "in a nutshell" is part of the quote from Thandi (2022). --Soman (talk) 18:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you claim that the peasants' movement was identical to a party that represented (or claimed to represent) the peasants' movement? Do you claim that without Riyasat Parjamandal there was no peasants' movement? -The Gnome (talk) 18:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Appears to be a notable political movement supported by the WP:SIGCOV presented in this discussion. @Soman Could you please take the time to add references and improve the text of the article. Thank you.4meter4 (talk) 18:28, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (edit conflict) - Praja Mandal Movement in East Punjab States by Ramesh Walia (1972) is a whole book about the Riyasat Praja Mandal movement, which is the very gold standard of WP:SIGCOV. In The Making of Punjab by Harish Jain (2003) there is a separate chapter on the Praja Mandal movement in Punjab (page 235-238). In The Sikhs of the Punjab, Vol. 2-3 by J. S. Grewal (1998) the Praja Mandal movement is covered, with details on how initially the Akalis were part of the movement but they later diverged, and that the Praja Mandal merged with Lok Seva Sangh to form the Pepsu Pradesh Congress which won the 1952 PEPSU election. In State, Community and Neighbourhood in Princely North India, c. 1900-1950 by Copland (2005) we find a listing of the State Praja Mandals, with a total membership of around 53,000. In Peasant Movement in PEPSU, Punjab by Mohinder Singh (1991) the Praja Mandal movement in Punjab is mentioned across 27 pages. And in Congress and Indian Nationalism: The Pre-Independence Phase by Richard Sisson and Stanley Wolpert (2024) there is the quote "There is a thorough analysis of the ambiguous relationship between the Punjab Riyasti Praja Mandal and one peasant movement in Mridula Mukherjee , "Peasant Movement in Patiala State , 1937– 48" Studies in History, 1 (2) (July-December 1979):215-283". So... in this comment we have six different sources, all affirming the notability of the Riyasat Praja Mandal movement and/or affirming the existence of SIGCOV. All of them address the Punjab Riyasat Praja Mandal specifically, and in depth. --Soman (talk) 18:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, The Panjab Past and Present, Vol.15 published by the Department of Punjab Historical Studies, Punjabi University, 1981, has an article titled A Peep into the Punjab Riyasti Praja Mandal. I can't access the full text, only snippet view, but seemingly it stretches at least 14 pages. In ThePrint article Behind Bhagat Singh chants at farmers’ protest, a century-old Left tradition in Punjab we find the following brief summary: "Leaders of the Akali movement founded the ‘Punjab Riasti Praja Mandal Party’ in 1929 to agitate against the princely states demanding a representative government. The flashpoint was the collection of batai, or a portion of produce, by biswedars or land owners from tenant tillers or muzaras. Praja Mandal leader Sewa Singh Thikriwala [hi] started encouraging muzaras not to pay batai. Thikriwala was incarcerated by the then Maharaja of Patiala, and the severity of his stint in jail proved fatal. His statue still stands in the city of Patiala. After his death, the Praja Mandal movement was led by Jagir Singh Joga, a communist leader. [...] The Praja Mandal movement remained till its end, in 1953, the broadest political platform in Punjab, embracing many Congress members, communists and freedom fighters." --Soman (talk) 19:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - article by Dr. Ramesh Walia on Praja Mandal Movement in the East Punjab States here in full text on Internet Archive. Presumably a summary of the details in his 1972 book on the subject. Here a Youtube video on the history of the Punjab Riyasat Praja Mandal, if I understand correctly the video is intended to serve as a learning aid for preparations of the Punjab Public Service Commission entry exam, which apparently may include questions on the Praja Mandal movement. --Soman (talk) 19:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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