Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joshua Brown (motorist)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. J04n(talk page) 15:42, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Joshua Brown (motorist)

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Non-notable individual asserted to have been the first individual killed in a self-driving car. The concern I have about this article is the car is not, in spite of news reports, a true self-driving car. Tessla markets this is a an "autopilot" feature. Individual is known for WP:1E. reddogsix (talk) 23:35, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This tragedy is shaking up the transportation industry, especially in the sub-sectors that are developing self-driving cars. It's all over the news, because automotive autopilots were touted as the safer way to get around, due to eliminating human error. It's also remarkable for being the first fatal accident in over 130,000,000 miles of all Tesla vehicles on Autopilot. --Shultz the Editor (talk) 00:30, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - So you have indicated why the article is popular, however, you failed to indicate how the article meets Wikipedia guidelines for notability. You have not indicated why this is not a WP:1E. reddogsix (talk) 01:28, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Omar Mateen, the shooter at the Pulse (nightclub), is a 1-event article and there was no problem with it. The events there shook up the LGBTQ community; the accident that killed Josh Brown shook up the autonomous driving community. --Shultz the Editor (talk) 04:11, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And right there you just called out why this article is different than Omar Mateen. The accident that killed Josh Brown is shaking up the community...not Josh Brown. Josh Brown's only contribution to this accident was being there. If Josh Brown was the person shaking up the community, you might have something. But, he's not. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:33, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:1E. User:Shultz the Editor is correct that this story is a big one, but Autonomous_car#Safety_record and Tesla_Model_S#Autopilot are both already covering the crash itself and its ramifications in much more detail. That may end up being split into a fourth article about the crash or about self-driving car safety, but it looks like we don't have the grounds or in-depth sources for a full biography of the deceased here. --McGeddon (talk) 18:55, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep And re-title with the focus on the accident and its ramifications in detail. This is a significant event noteworthy in itself, but the specific victim (self-victim as he deliberately misused the system against its specific instructions) is not. The article should be about the event, not the biography of the victim except for details relevant to the accident. [[ aside - For example 8 driving tickets in the 6 preceding years, all for "failing to obey a traffic device or sign". All, very likely speeding tickets that the driver, a former Navy Seal asked to have reduced, a common thing for Judges to do if they "like" the driver. As an ex-Seal with no other issues, a high probability. ]] Jjk (talk) 13:10, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:1E. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As I argued in the talk page of the Tesla Model S article, this type of incident, like the plug-in car fires in the past, call for a lot of attention and speculation. Therefore, it is important for editors to keep in mind that Wikipedia is NOT a media outlet, we do not report the news (see Wikipedia:NOTNEWS), so as per WP policies the content has to be encyclopedic (see WP:NOT). IMO, the notable facts to report about this incident (Wikipedia:Notability) are just two: the fact that this is the first known accident with a fatal victim while the car was driven by a self-driving system, and second, it puts into question the reliability of Tesla's Autopilot technology (the objective of the NHTSA formal investigation). This content is already presented in the Autopilot section of the Model S article. And for purposes of WP:NPOV, the official statement made by Tesla is required. Considering the key facts, the driver's name does not seems to be notable to be mentioned, nor anecdotal content about him (I previously removed some of it). Yes he was a Tesla enthusiast, and for obvious reasons he is mentioned in the all the news about the accident, but remember that per Wiki policies, notability is NOT temporary (WP:NOTTEMPORARY). I think that the only case when there is justification to mention victims in accidents is when this person meets the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability (people). To illustrate better, i.e. if the CEO of the company died testing its new technology, then I think he/she should be mentioned by name, but only if the company or the new technology are remarkable or significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded (notability!). Cheers.--Mariordo (talk) 03:57, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The man himself was not notable to the world at large when he was alive - in 5 years (probably less) he will be totally unknown again. It is the accident that is famous, not the man in it. Stepho talk 04:51, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: There is nothing remarkable about this individual in any respect. He was a Navy SEAL, but doesn't pass Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Notability_guide#People. He was the head of his non-notable nine person company, which doesn't put him past Wikipedia:Notability (people). He graduated from University of New Mexico, but that doesn't make him notable under WP:ACADEMICS either. Let's be clear here; the car crashed. That's what is notable. It could have been anyone in that car, in fact the car could have been empty, and the accident would be notable, but not the person in the car that crashed. We don't have an article about the driver of the truck the car crashed into, nor should we. That this individual was involved in a car wreck does not make him notable anymore than the tens thousands of people killed every year in car wrecks around the world. He was simply a passenger. In the driver's seat, but a passenger. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:47, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Tragic but WP:1E pretty much covers this. Nothing is notable about this person's life....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:05, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:BLP1E, coverage should belong in a sentence or two in self-driving car article. Meinnaples (talk) 15:34, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as still nothing for convincing independent notability. SwisterTwister talk 07:29, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.