Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Governors Cup Lagos Tennis

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 08:30, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Governors Cup Lagos Tennis

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This article does not meet an Tennis Guideline notability, nor does it meet NSport notability. The ITF Futures events are minor-minor league tennis. That's not a typo. The ATP Tour that we see on tv is the major leagues. Then the Challenger Tour is the minor league. By consensus, we have determined that the Challenger Tour, though a minor league, is notable enough for tournament inclusion. The minor-minor ITF tour is not. This is shown in our guidelines. There are over 600 mens low level ITF tournaments alone... another 500 for the women. Tournament winners go home with as little as a $1000. When these ITF Futures players eventually graduate to playing in the minor leagues like the ATP Challengers or WTA 125ks, they still aren't notable... not unless they actually win the title. This article should be deleted and if in the future it becomes a notable Challenger event, it can be recreated, but not withe the minir-minor league ITF info. Even the sources say the hopeful inaugural tournament is still 18 months away. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:15, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - see WP:CRYSTALBALL. It isn't certain that this event even becomes a Challenger event. Not a notable event whatsoever for now. Maybe recreate if it becomes notable in a year or two. Adamtt9 (talk) 11:09, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:57, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:57, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:57, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Article meets GNG, whatever CRYSTALBALL concern can be removed ONLY IF they do not add value to the article, but that is not a reason for deletion. Specific notability guidelines for tournaments articles are not cast in stone. HandsomeBoy (talk) 19:00, 23 August 2018 (UTC)— Note to closing admin: HandsomeBoy (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD. [reply]
Keep. It has significant press coverage within the country.Alexplaugh12 (talk) 22:16, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that GNG always trumps any Wiki-project, but does that GNG also cover the double winners of every year of this minor league tournament? I checked their website and they don't even find it notable to list past winners. They do mention a couple past winners if they happen to later make it to the ATP or WTA tour level. You can bet that if it ever does make it to a Challenger level event and they do start listing winners, that it will only be Challenger winners only. The futures winners will be dropped by the tournament. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:09, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Even the most notable and top priority Nigerian events/tournaments/articles have difficulty maintaining an online record for themselves, I know this because I have been documenting alot of such on Wikipedia for years. It is an African thing, thank God that is changing now. HandsomeBoy (talk) 11:41, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, with an encyclopedia that prides itself on sourcing, that makes it tough to include those results here if they aren't notable enough even from the event itself. I don't know Nigerian so I can't really tell about GNG. Perhaps it is covered in the largest newspapers there which would give it a thumbs up on GNG. But I do know tennis, and on a tennis scale and Wikipedia Tennis Project scale it's not remotely notable. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:44, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm struggling to find coverage that isn't either WP:ROUTINE or just a passing mention, I don't belewve GNG is met but I'm going to wait a bit longer before !voting. Iffy★Chat -- 08:28, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment/Question: Per Iffy, which sources do you believe are enough to qualify for significant press coverage that is not WP:ROUTINE?

In countries like the US, France, Australia, etc. where the top tennis players are opportuned to participate numerous grand slams and masters series, the challenge and future events might be of little value, so I can understand why the consensus among WP:TENNIS will be that articles on futures and challenge tournamnet shouldn't even be created. However, for African players, tennis is an important game amongst ourselves and it is a tournament such as this that provides the opportunity for top African players to play among themselves and against medium-level/emerging foreign players. Here are a few sources in highest level Nigerian newspapers, used as a reference point for top seed Nigerian women tennis player, Zimbabwean top players, medium of assesing Nigerian Tennis, interest from some popular tennis stars, ranked as one of the biggest in Africa, tournament for emerging players worldwide, this is a critique review, but such reviews only come when you are notable, Nigeria's biggest tourist atttraction, rated high by the government, spectators are paying to watch the games, Likened to an historical competition, etc. HandsomeBoy (talk) 22:32, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One major correction. We do create tournaments for the minor league ATP Challenger events. Even though they are the minor leagues and aren't shown on tv or reported much in the news, we do create them. But Tennis Project has drawn the line at the minor-minor league tournaments such as the ITF Futures. If the Nigerian event "ever" makes it to the minor league Challenger tour, there are no issues at all with Tennis Project. But right now it one of more than a thousand other tiny events. If it passes GNG because of special circumstances, then that's fine. But that would be for GNG notability, not for Tennis Project notability. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:28, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The nominator agrees it does not meet WP:NTENNIS. They are arguing for GNG. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 02:09, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I find it hard to believe that this is a big tourist attraction. The source that claims this doesn't cite any figures (e.g. attendance). Some of those other sources are WP:ROUTINE (just reporting that the event is happening and the results). Others are not WP:RELIABLE (Nadal is not coming to play at the tournament, even if it becomes a Challenger; 540 players are not going to compete in the event. It's more like ~32.). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 02:09, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just some clarification, My stance was that I understand why some editors will think it does not meet WP:TENNIS, that does not mean I agree with it, I can't totally agree to a discussion I wasn't part of. I was just trying to be diplomatic about my rationale, seeing things from all angle. And are you really calling Vanguard (Nigeria) an unreliable source?? Just because you don't like how they write their publications does not mean they are not rs. Be specific about which of the sources I posted are unreliable. The information above was from Vanguard (Nigeria), The_Guardian_(Nigeria), P.M._News, The_Nation_(Nigeria), Media Trust and The Eagle newspaper, so which of those sources are unreliable? Also, there is a long qualification process for many unseeded players before the first round of the main tournament. I have at least 2 references of different editions that show that more than 32 players usually participate. So it is incorrect to say that only approximately 32 players take part in it.HandsomeBoy (talk) 23:37, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

From the Vanguard source: "The Governor’s Cup, an ITF sanctioned Future’s tournament, according to them, will now be upgraded to a Challenger Series event. And that, according to them will attract the likes of Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and the Williams sisters to Nigeria." That is not true. None of those players have played in a Challenger tournament in the past decade. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unrelated comment: Infact I think the current system makes it impossible to have a modest universal representation of tennis players and tournaments, as only the very best of the best will be eligible to have articles on Wikipedia. I am aware the football WikiProject have a consensus that stipulates that as soon as a league is a professional league, then the league and its players are likely to be notable if sources are found. This ensures that even if the quality of football isn't so great, just by being a professional league, they may be good for WP. But I feel like the present system of tennis WikiProject will exclude alot of African players from WP (except South Africa). Nowonder there is currently no active Nigerian tennis player with a WP article, and I'm sure that is the same for many other African countries. If I was part of the RFC that led to the consensus, I would have had alot to say on it, so I would not say I totally agree that this tennis event article fails WP:NTENNIS.HandsomeBoy (talk) 23:46, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There are Nigerian tennis players that meet WP:NTENNIS if they have played matches as part of the Nigerian Davis Cup or Fed Cup teams. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:38, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Related discussion on - Talk:Governors Cup Lagos Open. HandsomeBoy (talk) 11:41, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kirbanzo (talk) 01:14, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Doesn't meet WP:NTENNIS because of WP:CRYSTALBALL. Doesn't meet WP:GNG. The sources provided are inaccurate (not WP:RELIABLE), routine coverage announcing the event or reporting the results (WP:ROUTINE), and/or promotional in nature (WP:QUESTIONABLE). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 22:21, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, So Why 15:26, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Article meets GNG, and has press coverage.--Dthomsen8 (talk) 22:25, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (talk) 03:57, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I'm on the fence here with as this does not meet WP:NTENNIS because its a minor-minor tournament as people don't add these sort of articles in terms of notability, but then again this is successful under the WP:GNG. So I am going to wait until further talk on this discussion until I make my decision for now. Not Homura (talk) 00:25, 24 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.