Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George Fuller Miller Sr.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) —Theopolisme (talk) 00:06, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

George Fuller Miller Sr.

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Inappropriate AFC move. Fails notability. Can not find any sources on the subject. GAtechnical (talk)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arizona-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:57, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:57, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hold Off Please I don't believe that the fact that the references are hard to come by makes them invalid. I believe I may be able to provide several of them if there's away to do that. Additionally, I don't understand the "Fails Notability" comment. This man basically started Boy Scouting in Arizona, dedicated his life to it to help boys, has a building named after him in Phoenix (the Scouting headquarters for the Grand Canyon Council), founded the American Humanics program which is business school program for people who will be working in the non-profit sector, was awarded and honorary doctorate for his work, and served as a city councilman for the city of Phoenix. This man made a tremendous contribution to society here in Arizona, dedicating his life to the development of young men.

Please see Wikipedia:Notability. May pass notability as a city Councillor but I don't think he does for scouting. As a passing note yes there is reliable references in the article but there is no way we can prove that the articles were about him. GAtechnical (talk) 18:16, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Notability (people) particularly If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability which we can't tell as they are offline. He is NOT notable for scouting or as a Councillor. Also further reason why this should be deleted can be found further down the page when it says:

Any biography

The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times. The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field GAtechnical (talk) 18:41, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think I need to provide some information about the Hon Kachina Award and the First Scout Award - these should meet the significant award or honor. You can see information about the Hon Kachina Award at www.honkachina.org

Doesn't the fact that the scouting center here in Phoenix is named after him indicate a notable contribution. How do we get personal interviews that we have in our possession reviewed to validate some of this information? Can you answer why the examples I provided make them notable but we can't meet this same criteria. None of them meet the criteria specified in the Any biography If baffles me that a guy who did nothing more than play three years of pro baseball is notable but a man who built scouting in Arizona affecting more than 100,000 young men, received an honorary doctorate for his work, and has a building named after him is not notable in the eyes of Wikipedia. Why were the examples I provided deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.222.215.125 (talk) 02:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

keep as revised I shortened this substantially; I am normally reluctant to use the term, but the article as unwisely accepted from AfC is the very epitome of a vanity article. But the honorary degree from ASU is proof of his distinction, and enough to meet a reasonable notability standard. There is a great deal of personal judgment in what sources we can accept as substantial and reliable, and I consider the ones in the article sufficient for the straight statements of fact now in the article. They were not sufficient for the opinion and personal material in the article as nominated for deletion. I have not the slightest objection to the nomination, and, if I had not been prepared to improve the article, I would have !voted to delete it. DGG ( talk ) 01:07, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Incubate For most of this man's life, there was no Internet, but if he did all the article says he did, there would have been coverage of him. —rybec 21:14, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia's comment that George Miller's scouting career fails notability could not be further from the truth. He was Scout Executive of Roosevelt Council for forty years. His dynamic leadership and foresight guided the Council during a time of explosive growth in Central Arizona.

When George Miller retired in April 1968, 6,150 citizens and scouts paid tribute to him in a ceremony so big that it had to be held at Phoenix Municipal Stadium. "It was one of the largest and most impressive farewell events ever accorded a Phoenix leader." (Phoenix Gazette, April 9, 1968, page 12). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.223.41.4 (talk) 21:08, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Stop with your headers. It's making it very messy and why I edited your first comment and removed the other people which was irrelevant. GAtechnical (talk) 22:32, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 13:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - the subject appears to be notable enough. It is a long-standing rule that sources do not have to be all online; some can be sourced by paper records. Bearian (talk) 13:56, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Scouting has been notified about this discussion. J04n(talk page) 13:57, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep Seems to just meet WP:ANYBIO. Miniapolis 15:12, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: His contributions seem entirely significant enough to justify maintaining the article. Ducknish (talk) 15:21, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per rybec. --evrik ^(talk) 16:21, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, current article seems reasonable; honorary degree (that I gather was added) is convincing of notability to me. --do ncr am 23:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Appears notable, especially with honorary degree. -AuthorAuthor (talk) 10:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep several firsts and founder of a nationwide organization pass notability litmus.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 15:50, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.