Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brunild Pepa

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete all.

The focus in this discussion rested on a single question--is the Albanian Superliga a "fully professional league" as that term is used in WP:ATHLETE? This question was debated in this AfD and the various policy talk pages at length. Both the weight of the discussions and the few observed shifts of opinion during the discussion lean "no," and thus delete.

Moreover, there was no controversy on the question of whether the ten footballers met WP:GNG, consensus was that they do not. Three participants specifically indicated that the ten footballers did not meet GNG, no counterarguments nor evidence was presented in rebuttal.

Further, I note that WP:ATHLETE begins:

This guideline is used to help evaluate whether or not a sportsperson or sports league/organization (amateur or professional) will meet the general notability guideline, and thus merit an article in Wikipedia.

Where WP:ATHLETE gives us an arguably ambiguous answer but WP:GNG provides a clear enough one, the GNG takes precedence. --joe decker ^{talk to me} 19:44, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Brunild Pepa

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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested on the grounds that he has played in the Albanian Superliga which is listed and sourced as not fully pro at WP:FPL and therefore does not grant notability under WP:NSPORT. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:31, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following articles for the same reason. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:31, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:31, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:31, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:31, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all for failure of WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 22:20, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all. No indication that they meet notability guidelines. All fail WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. Argyle 4 Life^talk 07:14, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I am also adding the following article to the nomination, for the same reason as the ones above. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:54, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all Albanian superliga is a profesional league and should deserve an article! --Vinie007 06:40, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment please check WP:FPL because Albania is on the list --Vinie007 06:45, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep all: I admit I wasn't aware that Albania had a professional league earlier, but Vinie007 has pointed to irrefutable sources that the league is actually fully professional, hence all the Albanian players of the top league would be per se notable.--Doktor Plumbi (talk) 13:38, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, Yes i think the same. Superliga must be include while first league don't deserve an article for players. --Vinie007 14:37, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Cirt (talk) 06:25, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all, fail WP:NFOOTY as they have not competed at a fully-professional level of football. No significant media coverage that passes WP:SIGCOV either. --Jimbo^[online] 23:20, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep all. WP:FPL states that the Albanian league is indeed fully-professional (and it's supported by three references) so all the players do pass WP:NFOOTBALL . Jenks24 (talk) 18:27, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I'm not convinced about the links at WP:FPL - as far as I can tell (i.e. with the help of Google Translate!), the two news items simply refer to a 'professional league' without confirming whether it's truly fully professional or if there are still semi-pro teams there, and the league statute document seems to make no reference to players' professional status whatsoever. Could someone who can actually speak Albanian point us to where exactly the league's professional status is confirmed? —BETTIA— ^talk 15:58, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - agree with Bettia, I've just run the sources through Google Translator, and yes, they mention the Professional League as a name, a brand, but don't actially seem to prove that the league's financial status is indeed fully-professional.
Keep as per WP:NFOOTBALL. WP:FPL (essay) lists the Albanian Superliga as a "fully professional league".Guoguo12 (Talk) 00:13, 3 June 2011 (UTC) Neutral, awaiting confirmation of league status (see below). Guoguo12 (Talk) 21:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That claim is very questionable, please see the two comments just above your own. Giant Snowman 09:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia list "List of professional sports leagues" defines a professional sports league as one "for which all players and teams are paid to play". Is this not the qualification used at WP:FPL? Guoguo12 (Talk) 19:16, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In a nutshell, no. The clue is in the title - FPL = fully professional leagues i.e. ones where the players are not only paid to play but are paid enough to be full-time sportspeople who do not have "day jobs". Many leagues contain players who are paid a small amount to play football but not enough to not have to have a day job as well. Does that make sense.......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:06, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Having now had a look at that article, it contains leagues like the Welsh Premier League, which is definitely only semi-professional, i.e. the players do get paid some money to play but also have day jobs and do their football training after work. So it isn't fully professional as required by WP:ATHLETE (or whatever it's called now..........) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:09, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Thanks for clarifying that. I've changed my !vote to "awaiting confirmation of league status". Guoguo12 (Talk) 21:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — -- Cirt (talk) 17:55, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:05, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:29, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all per my concerns given above. I'm not convinced the Albanian League is fully professional, meaning these players do not meet the requirements of WP:NFOOTY, and there does not appear to be the substantial third-party sources available to meet the general notability guidelines. —BETTIA— ^talk 06:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neither do I. The AfD has been open for nearly a month and it hasn't been proved, beyond reasonable doubt, that it's a fully professional league. They don't pass the general notability guideline so they should be deleted. Argyle 4 Life^talk 19:31, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.