Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brian Draper and Torey Adamcik

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Murder of Cassie Jo Stoddart. I'm closing this as a straight Redirect rather than Delete as there are some participants who mentioned a possible Merge of some content. And, as I stated in this discussion to the nominator, do not start an AFD about an article that you haven't read and analyzed. This is AFD 101. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:17, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Brian Draper and Torey Adamcik

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime and Idaho. Shellwood (talk) 21:21, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From 6 June 2014 to 24 June 2024, this article was a redirect to Murder of Cassie Jo Stoddart. Since then, it's had a huge blast of edits, creating this article. The murderers themselves are notable only for this event. The redirect was appropriate. cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 19:29, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: theres tons of information about these two that wouldnt fit in the Murder of Cassie Jo Stoddart Also there are other killers only notable for one event that have their own articles. Interaham (talk) 20:56, 23 August 2024 (UTC) Struck !vote due to sockpuppetry. PhilKnight (talk) 05:00, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Absent their notoriety for the crime, other information on the perpetrators isn't meaningful. Just because there's a lot of information doesn't make them notable separately from the crime. See WP:OTHERSTUFF. They were clearly not notable enough between 2011 - when the article on the murder of Cassie Jo Stoddart was first created, and now, to warrant an article about them. I haven't read the article in question, is there some very notable new information regarding the crime that would warrant this separate article for the perps? cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 21:39, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - their Early Life and Prior Criminal History for example Interaham (talk) 21:49, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Their early life and prior criminal history can be summarized in the Murder of Cassie Jo Stoddart article. Neither of those themselves establish new information that would make them notable now. cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 21:55, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      - what about the many interviews draper gave which provide with incite, plus the fact that their case went viral back in 2006 because they documented the whole thing Interaham (talk) 21:58, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Again, I don't believe those are valid reasons to establish notability for an article separate from the Murder itself. The article on the murder isn't overly long, information related to the crime can be folded into it, because the crime is what was notable. cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 22:00, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Wikipedia:"Murder of" articles states that a perpetrator of a crime may be notable for their own article if they got enough media coverage which is the case for these two as they got National Coverage Interaham (talk) 22:12, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

anastrophe, I'm rather shocked by your comments. Please do not participate in an AFD discussion, much less nominate an article for deletion (!), until you have read the article and assessed its sources, carefully! I'm not sure how seriously I should take your opinion now. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:11, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and restore the redirect per Giant and reasons already tendered. cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 21:40, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: There's an interview with the pair that came out March 2023, but there's been nothing about them before or since, outside of the crime. I don't see them as being notable outside of the crime and any information about them is covered there. Most of the sourcing used in the article now is simply them appealing their conviction, which is still related to the incident. I don't see the need for a break-out article. These aren't famous criminals, just two guys that did a bad thing and went to jail. Oaktree b (talk) 22:25, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- they were interviewed in 2014; And again in 2023 and more recently in 2024 They were featured in many True Crime shows, plus there are many killers and criminals only notable for one event that have their own articles for example Nikolas Cruz and Leopold and Loeb. Interaham (talk) 22:33, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Restore the redirect which has existed for 10 years!!! Giant Snowman 08:21, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: if Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni can have their own articles why shouldnt these two, all this article needs is just some improvement 197.147.177.136 (talk) 23:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Because in that instance there isn't a separate article on the case. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:56, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: they have been featured in several documentaries and interviews i believe they deserve their own article. SupremeLeader90 (talk) 23:40, 24 August 2024 (UTC) Struck vote due to sockpuppetry. PhilKnight (talk) 05:00, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Restore the redirect as stated above. Ktkvtsh (talk) 21:12, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Because the information here can easily be added to the murder of cassie page. Not much of note has happened to them while behind bars, apart from them being accused in another case. It is not like they became artists in jail, their prison lives have been mostly not notable. Simpily put, these two are not notable enough themselves to warrant a separate page from the murder of cassie page, especially since, in most cases, killers are not given their own distinct pages from the page about their crimes. It brings me no pleasure to advocate deletion, but information here can easily just be added to the other page. BadMombo1660 (talk) 17:32, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Restore redirect merge anything necessary that isn't in the original article already. Being subjects of documentaries and articles does not guarantee independent notability, thus why don't have individual articles on all murderers. See points made above. Spinixster (trout me!) 01:53, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Most of the information from these perpetrators are found on Murder of Cassie Jo Stoddart and do not warrant its own page. There is nothing else these two individuals are known for other than the murder. Also, there should only be minimal information about their background included on page that is relevant to the build up to the murder i.e. their love for the Scream film series and wanting fame out of murdering a classmate. Everything else is either unnecessary or heresy from an alleged interview that took place and isn't corroborated by suitable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atlboy64 (talk • contribs)
Delete and restore the redirect per GiantSnowman. I add in that in almost every murder case, the focus is, and ought to be, on the victim, rather than the perpetrators. This was not an assassination, nor one that received ongoing attention, nor mass murder, so those rare exceptions don’t apply. Finally, much of the article is completely without any references, implicating WP:BLP violations. Bearian (talk) 03:19, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No need for two articles on the same case. Merge any sourced information that's not in the murder article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:56, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.