Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alessio Foconi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Article's subject is found to not be notable. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:40, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alessio Foconi

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Fencer who has had some success on the junior level, but has not yet had any significant success as a senior. Junior success is not sufficient to show notability.Mdtemp (talk) 20:28, 9 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I created the article on the ground that he earned three bronze medals in the Fencing World Cup: one in the 2008 Espinho World Cup, one in the 2011 Shanghai Grand Prix and one in the 2015 Bonn Grand Prix. He also took a team gold medal in the 2014 Havana Grand Prix. World Cup events are the top-level competitions in the sport after the Olympic Games and the World Championships. Foconi also won the 2013 *senior* (assoluti) Italian championships, which is in my opinion a significant result as Italy is a top-ranking nation in foil. The rankings I mentioned were senior ones and it was incorrect to add "junior" in front of them; please read the sources provided. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 08:15, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Success in lesser events doesn't make him notable. No success shown in adult European or World championships. The article's link to his FIE record shows his ranking as being in the under-23 category. Like the nom, I would call that a junior ranking since it's certainly not the top level of fencing. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 18:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand the part about the rankings. Those mentioned in the article for 2010–11 and 2011–12 are senior ones: Foconi hasn't fenced in junior since 2009. These rankings have a "S" like "senior" in front of them on the EFC link you're mentioning. I don't know how it could be clearer. Everyone can see for themselves. About "lesser events", dismissing success in World Cup events seems a bit like dismissing success in WTA Premier tournaments because they're not Grand Slam. In fencing a Grand Prix weighs the same in World Cup points as a continental championship like the Europeans. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 20:18, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect the IP made the same mistake I did. I clicked on the external EFC link in the article and got this [1] which shows only an under 23 ranking. Even using the rankings you correctly pointed out, he's only ranked 34th. I don't think that's enough to show notability, especially when you consider that boxing (a far more popular sport) requires being ranked in the top 10 to show notability.Mdtemp (talk) 20:10, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, OK, it was baffling me. I see how it can be confusing. I'm not actually saying Foconi is notable for his ranking. As there are no fencing-specific notability criteria that I know of, I operated under the assumption that a medal in a World Cup event (ie a Grand Prix or a World Cup per se, to the exclusion of satellite events of course) was enough. I write almost only about fencing on en:, so I'm not very well aware of notability criteria for other sports.

To complete my previous explanations, all top-ranked fencers usually attend these competitions. In the Löwe von Bonn, in which Foconi got his last bronze, all Top 20 fencers attended there but one, who is injured. The competitions also use the same formula as the World Championships. There are eight a season, five World Cups and three Grand Prix. So I'd say that, *within fencing*, they're comparable to the ATP World Tour Masters 1000 for tennis. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 12:27, 14 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shii (tock) 01:35, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete With no appearances at a European or World championship or at the Olympics it's hard to argue that he's competed at the highest level. Doesn't appear to meet the notability criteria for athletes and a rank of 34 doesn't seem high enough to show notability. Comparing this to tennis is irrelevant and I would say misleading since there are far more tennis players than fencers. The coverage consists of routine reporting of sports results and not the significant independent coverage required to meet WP:GNG. He may become notable but right now it's at least WP:TOOSOON. Papaursa (talk) 20:39, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Just on the first sentence–the number of fencers is restricted to four by country at the European and the World championships (three per country for the Olympics). Italy sends their four Olympic team champions, while weaker countries can send fencers that have no international ranking. At the 2013 Europeans for instance the best-ranked Austrian in men's foil was No.60 and the best-ranked Portuguese was No.353. There is no number restriction at World Cups, so all the best fencers are there regardless of their country. Final phases of World Cups are at least the same level of competition as European or Worlds. Also for the sake of precision, 34th is Foconi's current ranking. His best end-of-the-season ranking is 24th in 2012. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 10:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.