User talk:SwissCelt/archive3

Ohio Northern University

I noticed you made several edits to the ONU page. Did you graduate from there? I am currently a freshman and I have started making changes as I see fit. (I am also new to the wikipedia community, so any helpful hints would be welcome as well.) --Greg Back 04:56, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Reverts

I apologize if my reverts caused any problems, but I feel that it would be more appropriate to have a list of largest cities rather than metropolitan areas. It seems redundant to list this when the areas of Greater Cincinnati and Greater Cleveland are listed above. I say just put back to how it was, it was fine. -- Clevelander 19:01, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

How Are You?

Greetings, Swiss!
I've been away for about six weeks. I am pleased to see some of my articles have been patrolled in my absence (e.g. Katie Holmes). Haven't heard from you in a while. How are you doing? PedanticallySpeaking 16:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome

Glad you like the Logan County, Ohio map - and thanks for the thanks. I am making the same style map for each of the 88 Ohio counties, a few at a time (working my way from NW Ohio out). One problem though, is that a few counties already have maps. Allen County, Ohio now has one of mine and an older (nicer) color map (although I would have labeled the roads, which are I-75 and Rte. 30). There are three or four others with the same type of color maps - I have made my b&w maps for Auglaize and Shelby but not put them up on English Wikipedia as they already have these (mine are on Commons and the Portugese articles). What do you think I should do? Ruhrfisch 05:06, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

State of Ohio Seal

The seal underwent a design change in 1996 [1]. It is unlikely that the State of Ohio has released its rights to the image. Given the image is not old enough to have vacated the copyright, it is likely the image is still copyrighted. As such, we must presume the image can be used here only under terms of fair use, which precludes the use of the image outside of the main article namespace. Please see Wikipedia:Fair use criteria item #9. I've reverted your re-inclusion of the seal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio. Thanks, --Durin 21:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Per O.R.C. 5.04, the "seal" thus depicted is the official coat of arms of the State of Ohio. O.R.C. 5.11 prohibits "private seals" from being used as the insignia of the government of the State of Ohio; thus, the official coat of arms depicted in O.R.C. 5.04 (and revised, as you state, in 1996) is not subject to copyright. It is therefore in the public domain. (I will, however, refrain from replacing the seal until people on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio page have had a chance to comment; see that project's talk page for more info.) -- SwissCelt 21:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• Got a URL? I'm not getting what you're getting [2]. I get something to do with memorials/parks/buildings. What are you referencing? --Durin 21:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
• Ok I found it now. Reviewing... --Durin 21:52, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
• I've responded at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ohio#The_Great_Seal_of_the_State_of_Ohio. --Durin 21:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yup, I responded as well. Thanks for the discussion! This has been very enlightening. -- SwissCelt 22:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Apologies

I am sorry that I didn't reference my addition to the Lebanon article re: violation if international law. I have now done so. Please note that I have a law degree with a specialisation in International Law and that it is widely recognised that the actions of the Israeli military in targeting civilian infrastructure are clear cut violations of the fourth Geneva Convention. I appreciate your input but unless you, like myself, posess tertiary qualifications in this field I would suggest my edit be left as is. If however you are qualified to discuss the issue I would be more than happy to do so! AntonioBu 04:33, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, in that case you may wish to review Wikipedia's policies on original research. While I appreciate that someone as well-qualified as you would share your knowledge with this project, the objectives of Wikipedia demand that source material be publicly available. Thank you for your contributions! -- SwissCelt 08:12, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank You

I would like to say thank you for all of your help to Wikiproject: Ohio. I have not been able to contribute a lot to Ohio articles lately, but I appreciate your assistance with everything you have done for us. Ajwebb 01:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Logan County

By the way, when looking at the De Graff article and rewording the thing on Scott Moody, I was curious: was it ever decided what to do with that passage after the message posted on the discussion last year? Is it supposed to be left there, or moved to Bellefontaine, or moved to Logan County, or something else? All I can say is that I don't remember anything in the Examiner about De Graff being involved, although I could easily be wrong :-) Nyttend 04:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The only involvement DeGraff had with the incident is that the village was where many of the killed were to be that afternoon and evening, for graduation ceremonies. That snippet probably should be moved to another article. Maybe Harrison Township? What do you think? Nobody else has offered a solution. -- SwissCelt 21:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

You're right about SR 540/47. Thanks for the correction! Nyttend 20:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Miami University and Ohio State

So by your logic, should the Miami article mention that Ohio State is ranked one place above it in USN&WR? I highly doubt that such an edit would have the lifespan of a firefly were I to care enough to make it.

That Ohio State is considered the flagship institution in Ohio is beyond argument based upon any number of criteria: undergraduate or graduate rankings, AAU membership, quality of the faculty, Guggenheim fellows, Fulbright Fellows, Nobel Prize winners, research, endowment, the Eagleson Bill of 1906, the issues that led to Ohio State's founding and so on.

Please don't vandalize the article again. You seem to be a pretty upstanding editor in a number of fields, so if you'd like to argue your point, please do so first on the talk page. BTW, what's with your maniacal attachment to and propagandizing for Miami? Didn't you go to Bowling Green?--Sam Harmon 22:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely, if the Miami article mentioned the USN&WR survey, Ohio State deserves mention as being one place above that. And I would encourage you to make that edit, as Miami's place on the survey (26th) is noteworthy. As far as Ohio State goes, yes, it is an outstanding university. It is NOT, however, the flagship. Unless and until the Ohio State Legislature places the other institutions under the auspices of The Ohio State University, there will never be a "flagship institution" in Ohio.

As for my "maniacal attachment to and propagandizing for Miami", I'm sick of people from so-called BCS institutions thinking that just because their school gets national media attention in football, the school is somehow superior to those which do not. The state of Ohio is infamous for this kind of thinking-- which, might I remind you, is POV. -- SwissCelt 22:56, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I just made the edit to Miami University you recommended. Thanks for the suggestion! -- SwissCelt 23:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I read your justification on the Ohio State talk page. I also posted my thoughts. Honestly, I don't think that any wikipedia university page should have to place a schools' rankings in the context of other schools. Perhaps, we should let others chime in on this in order to reach some form of broader concensus. As to the flagship status, at least from my perspective, this has nothing to do with BCS schools vs. non-BCS schools, football or size. It has everything to do with the academic quality factors (and the historical role of Ohio State within Ohio's higher education system) that I've discussed. If one were to poll a thousand university professors from outside Ohio (and with no connections to any Ohio university), "what is the flagship of Ohio's public university system?" How many do you think would say, "Ohio State?" Again, this isn't to demean other Ohio schools but simply to portray an accurate description of Ohio State within the state and national higher education system for the article.

I realize that you're not a vandal, and I apologize for initially reverting your edits as vandalism. We've had a serial vandal on the alumni page for about a month now, so I may have been a little quick on the trigger there. I would suggest that we leave both pages (Miami and Ohio State) alone until some others chime into our debate. Cheers!--Sam Harmon 23:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your conciliatory tone on this. It's much appreciated. I think, to answer your question regarding the hypothetical thousand monkeys with typewriters... er, I mean university professors (sorry for the innocent bit of humor), most professors with knowledge of the structure of post-secondary public education in Ohio would answer that there is no flagship. And while most people appreciate the role of Ohio State in Ohio education, I hesitate to call it an "historical" role given that Ohio University (along with Miami) are older institutions. I'm guessing not many people would call Iowa State University the flagship of Iowa's public university system, given that Iowa University is older. Why should Ohio State University get a similar role in Ohio? -- SwissCelt 23:58, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The Iowa analogy is interesting, but in my opinion not apt for a couple of reasons. If you read the history section of the Ohio State article, I based it largely upon a book by William Kinnison entitled Building Sullivan's Pyramid: An Administrative History of Ohio State. Kinnison had no professional attachment to Ohio State. He was a professional historian at Wooster and later its president. While the book was published by OSU Press (as almost any university history tends to be published by that school's press), one has to assume that it underwent the same criteria of fact-checking and peer review as any other work of non-fiction published by any respected university press. Kinnison's well researched conclusions are that Rutherford B. Hayes and the Ohio legislature decided to found a new institution as recipient of the land-grant funds specifically because of Miami and OU's failures in providing Ohio with a proper comprehensive state university. Hayes subsequently stacked the initial board of trustees with members who would institute a broad based curriculum and after leaving the presidency acted as Ohio State's de-facto president for several years. In other words, Iowa already had a strong flagship university when Iowa State was founded, which is why it is one of the state's that UC-Berkeley Chancellor Berdahl's speech mentions as having split the land-grant flagship function from the liberal arts flagship function. He, to the contrary, mentions Ohio as being one of the states where the two functions were combined into a single flagship institution. The Kinnison book also (with very detailed and heavy footnoting of existing scholarship and source materials) details the first thirty years of Ohio State's history and how and why it--rather than its two older siblings--emerged as the state's flagship university. There were three major culminating events (along with several minor ones) in the trend. First is the Eaglson Bill of 1906 which by Ohio law mandated that all doctoral education and research be the function of Ohio State. This would stand for over fifty years. The second would be the report from the Carnegie commision on higher education which rejected Ohio's application to have its faculty included in the foundation's pension plan. In direct correspondance to the Governor at the time, Carnegie chairman Pritchett's report concluded that only Ohio State among the three universities was a true university in the Michigan, Cornell or Wisconsin sense of the word. The third would come in 1916 when Ohio State was elected into membership in the Association of American Universities. Also, Kinnison is not completely adualatory about Ohio State in the book. He takes great pains to detail how the decentralized system held Ohio State back from reaching its full (he uses Wisconsin as a comparison) potential and how the Eagleson Bill was a somewhat compromised response to this. I grant you that Ohio State is somewhat unique in its founding largely in response to the shortcomings of two existing state universities and in how it rather quickly supplanted them as the dominant state university. That uniqueness, however, does not negate the legacy of these decisions and events.--Sam Harmon 00:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Interesting! Though I do wonder on one point: I find a Dr. William A. Kinnison who was the president of Wittenberg University. Is this the author to whom you refer? -- SwissCelt 00:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I stand corrected. Wittenberg it was.--Sam Harmon 00:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi

--PEAR 00:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

And salve to you, too! -- SwissCelt 00:23, 13 August 2006 (UTC)