User talk:Sam Sailor/Archive 15

Latest comment: 7 years ago by Lea Lacroix (WMDE) in topic Wikidata weekly summary #257
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Please comment on Talk:Richard B. Spencer

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Richard B. Spencer. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Me again

Well Sam, seeing as you are admin is there any chance too remove what I stated in NeilN talk page in relation too OReilly puppeteering thanks PjdW97 (talk) 00:47, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Actually, it's the other way around, NeilN is an admin, I'm not, so you should talk to him. I have removed the mention of L. from, well, you know from which page. I think the less we talk about the matter, the better. Very soon all messages will be archived and nobody will think about it. Take care, — Sam Sailor 03:35, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
Your email address has been removed from almost everywhere. I've left it up to another admin to take care of their talk page. The post to my talk page will not be revdelled (hidden) as it contains no personally identifiable information. You will, I trust, think twice about what you're posting in the future. --NeilN talk to me 05:11, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
And that admin has hidden it on their talk page now. Hopefully that's the end of it. --NeilN talk to me 05:23, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

SF9 Members

Hello!

The SF9 members (Rowoon, Taeyang and Dawon) do NOT have any individual activities besides being alongside their group, SF9. The too soon clause is enough, but I expanded the AfD rationales. They are NOT independently notable, so they can't have their own page as of now. Hope you understand!

Tibbydibby (talk) 05:51, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Hello Tibbydibby, I replied in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yoo Taeyang. Consider also for the other member articles if a categorized {{R from member}} to SF9 per alternatives to deletion would be useful search terms. — Sam Sailor 06:06, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review-Patrolling: Coordinator elections

Your last chance to nominate yourself or any New Page Reviewer, See Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination. Elections begin Monday 20 February 23:59 UTC. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 8, 2017)

Växjö surrounded by lakes, as seen from an airplane
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The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Växjö

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Previous selections: Astronomical object • Secondary school


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Wikidata weekly summary #248

Akatombo - thank you

I just wanted to take a minute to thank you for your edits to Akatombo (and to Midsommer before that). It's pretty inspiring, and I'm learning a lot from watching how you work on these articles. Mortee (talk) 16:13, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very kind of you. I know the feeling; not a day goes by without seeing someone else here do things in a smart way, using a template I never heard of before, pointing to a WP shortcut that I didn't know existed, or just wording something in a way I wish I could have done half as good. Best, — Sam Sailor 17:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
Good work. Ethanbas (talk) 17:26, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, and it's free. — Sam Sailor 17:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.3

Hello Sam Sailor,

Voting for coordinators has now begun HERE and will continue through/to 23:59 UTC Monday 06 March. Please be sure to vote. Any registered, confirmed editor can vote. Nominations are now closed.

Still a MASSIVE backlog

We now have 812 New Page Reviewers but despite numerous appeals for help, the backlog has NOT been significantly reduced.
If you asked for the New Page Reviewer right, please consider investing a bit of time - every little helps preventing spam and trash entering the mainspace and Google when the 'NO_INDEX' tags expire.


Discuss this newsletter here. If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:35, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

An article you contributed to has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, Sam Sailor. An article you either created or to which you significantly contributedhas been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you knowDYK comment symbol. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:01, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 9, 2017)

Parallel goods traders queuing outside Sheung Shui Station in Hong Kong
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The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Grey market

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Previous selections: Växjö • Astronomical object


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Wikidata weekly summary #249

The Signpost: 27 February 2017

Please comment on Talk:Melania Trump

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Melania Trump. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Providence:

The old article for the New Religious Movement has been split into several articles. See:

--Harizotoh9 (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me, Harizotoh. — Sam Sailor 17:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
Oh joy, the push is happening again. Look at the contributions for 어거스틴 (talk · contribs) - created on the 15th, then 10 small edits today and boom, big edits to Providence article. Surely no COI there, nope! Nooooo, not those articles. Ravensfire (talk) 03:04, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
Jung Myung-seok was arrested in May 2007, and sentenced to 10 years in 2009. I don't think it's a coincidence that we, after a period of relative calm surrounding Providence (religious movement), see a big push now prior to what must be his expected release from jail. Buckle up! — Sam Sailor 10:45, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

About OmarGosh

Hey man, I saw you deleted my article on OmarGosh because it had been previously deleted. I just want to let you know that I fixed the initial issue of it not having a single relevant source, but this time I actually provided several news articles. I would appreciate if you would help me do all that I can to get this page back. Thank you very much! User: MrProEdits (talk) 14:40, 1 March 2017 (UTC)MrProEdits

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 10

This month, we discuss the new CollaborationKit extension. Here's an image as a teaser:

23:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 10, 2017)

Hello, Sam Sailor.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Plastic explosive

Please be bold and help to improve this article!


Previous selections: Grey market • Växjö


Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations


Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:10, 6 March 2017 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Wikidata weekly summary #250

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Please comment on Talk:Olivia de Havilland

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Olivia de Havilland. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: February 2017





Headlines
Read this edition in fullSingle-page

To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

This week's article for improvement (week 11, 2017)

Hello, Sam Sailor.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Tandoori chicken

Please be bold and help to improve this article!


Previous selections: Plastic explosive • Grey market


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Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:19, 13 March 2017 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Wikidata weekly summary #251

This week's article for improvement (week 12, 2017)

The long-legged buzzard is an example of a bird of prey.
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Bird of prey

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Weekly Summary #252

Please comment on Talk:Andrew II of Hungary

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Andrew II of Hungary. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 13, 2017)

The Czech philosopher Radovan Richta (1924–1983) originated the theory of technological evolution.
Hello, Sam Sailor.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Technological evolution

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Previous selections: Bird of prey • Tandoori chicken


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Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:08, 27 March 2017 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Wikidata weekly summary #253

Please comment on Talk:Samaritan Pentateuch

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Samaritan Pentateuch. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Akatombo

On 2 March 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Akatombo, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Akatombo, or "Red Dragonfly", written by poet Rofū Miki and composed by Kosaku Yamada, is one of the most-loved Japanese songs according to a 1989 survey? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Akatombo), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Precious

care to not delete

Thank you for quality articles such as Csokonai Theatre and images, for rescuing Akatombo and others from deletion, for expanding Le Crocodile, for the wealth of information hidden on your seemingly concise user page, for helping with articles for creation, - Sam, you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:21, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Ganz herzlichen Dank, liebe Gerda, das war wirklich sehr nett von Ihnen. MfG Sam Sailor 22:36, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 14, 2017)

Hello, Sam Sailor.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Synchrony and diachrony

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Previous selections: Technological evolution • Bird of prey


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Wikidata weekly summary #254

Books and Bytes - Issue 21

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 21, January-March 2017
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

  • #1lib1ref 2017
  • Wikipedia Library User Group
  • Wikipedia Libraries at Wikimedia Conference 2017
  • Spotlight: Library Card Platform

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 15, 2017)

Hello, Sam Sailor.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Corruption in the United States

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Previous selections: Synchrony and diachrony • Technological evolution


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Posted by: MusikBot talk 00:06, 10 April 2017 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Please comment on Talk:Harem

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Harem. Legobot (talk) 04:28, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #255

A suggestion...

The edit summary for this edit says "Removed unsourced per my talk page comment; tidy".

Sorry, I spent over ten minutes looking on your talk page, for a comment related to Marianne Ihlen -- without success.

Next time you leave an edit summary, like that, could you put the relevant URL between a pair of brackets?

Thanks! Geo Swan (talk) 22:07, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, Geo, but you are mistaken here. This page is a user talk page, technically that's in namespace 3; my talk page comment to the unsourced material in Marianne Ihlen is found on the talk page associated with the article, Talk:Marianne Ihlen, technically that's in namespace 1. Sam Sailor 11:55, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
  • People routinely refer to the page associated with their wiki-id, in the "User talk" namespace, as their talk page. I suspect most contributors would interpret your comment as referring to a comment you left on your talk page -- ie what you would refer to as "my talk page". "Per my comment on the article's talk page...", or "per my comment on Talk:Marianne Ihlen..." would be better choices. Why include the link? What if, the talk page becomes long enough to require archiving of old comments? What if you make additional comment(s) at some future date?
Fwiw, I shared your concern over the Lena connection, and put a {{cn}} tag on it several months ago. But you undermined the utility of the revision control system, but combining a genuine change to the article's editorial content -- what our readers see, with purely cosmetic -- and frankly unnecessary -- refactoring of how the article's raw markup source appeared in the editor.
The revision control system depends on linefeeds to recognize the addition of new paragraphs. So the unnecessary addition of cosmetic line-feeds, or the cosmetic elimination of line-feeds, obfuscates the actual editorial change. You did this here. If you had shown restraint, and had merely changed the editorial content you and I were concerned about, your editorial change would have clearly stood out. The revision control system would have recognized just your editorial change, and highlighted your editorial change.
However, by combining a genuine editorial change with "tidying", the revision control system saw, instead, the deletion of one whole paragraph, and the addition of a brand new paragraph. "Tidying" masked your relatively small editorial change.
When a paragraph is made up of multiple adjacent lines, eliminating the internal line-feeds, making the paragraph one long logical line is a bad idea, for the same reason, and it confuses the revision control system the same way. And adding internal line-feeds to a paragraph that was one long logical line, also confuses the revision control system.
When is this kind of purely cosmetic tidying a good idea? I dunno. Rarely. One problem is that different people have different ideas of what is cosmetically pleasing, when viewed in the editor.
If you absolutely cannot resist "tidying" the internal appearance of articles, would you please try to make sure edits that "tidy" articles don't also contain genuine changes to the article's editorial content -- what our readers actually read?
Thanks Geo Swan (talk) 22:37, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I never before encountered an editor who would go looking for a talk page comment on a user page, so I suspect they are perfectly capable of understanding that "my talk page comment" does not mean "a comment on my user page", but means my comment on the talk page. That is where we put comments related to pages in main space. There's a difference between "my talk page" and "my talk page comment". When you searched in vain for anything regarding Marianne Ihlen here on my user talk page, you should have asked yourself if you were mistaken. A lot of time can be saved with a bit of common sense.
General fixes, corrections typically done by script to common MOS errors or to clarify formatting, are routinely done concurrently with editorial changes, and I have never before heard anyone making a big deal out of it, please also see WP:COSMETICBOT. I will however, whenever I notice we edit the same article, in the future make it a habit to separate edits.
While MediaWiki incorporates aspects of revision control systems we simply refer to the page history on Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects running MediaWiki, we don't call it "the revision control system".
When you last edited Marianne Ihlen in 2016 on 12 November, you left the LDRs as an inconsistent mixture of horizontally aligned references, e.g.
<ref name="Scotsman2016">{{Cite web | title = Obituary: Marianne Ihlen, Leonard Cohen’s muse | last = Davidson | first = Phil | work = scotsman.com | date = 13 Aug 2016 | accessdate = 2016-08-14 | url = http://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-marianne-ihlen-leonard-cohen-s-muse-1-4201857 | quote = | archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20160822233848/http://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-marianne-ihlen-leonard-cohen-s-muse-1-4201857 | archivedate = 2016-08-22 | deadurl = No }}</ref>
and vertically aligned references, e.g.
<ref name=IrishTimes2014-08-06>
{{cite news
| url         = http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/leonard-cohen-s-quest-for-something-higher-1.1888286
| title       = Leonard Cohen’s quest for something higher
| publisher   = [[Irish Times]]
| author      = Kevin Courtney
| date        = 2014-08-06
| accessdate  = 2014-08-06
| archiveurl  = 
| archivedate = 
| deadurl     = No 
| quote       = And it brought him to the Greek island of Hydra, a haven for poets, writers and artists. One of those was a young Norwegian writer, Axel Jensen, who had moved to Hydra with his wife, Marianne Ihlen, and their infant son. Abandoned by the volatile and capricious Jensen, Ihlen met and began a relationship with the fascinating young Canadian writer with the gentle, measured personality.
}}
</ref>
although it is probably preferable to aim for formatting consistency.
I did so as part of my tidying up on 28 November 2016‎, I ran the fine Tidy citations.js that harmonizes the whitespace in citation templates, resulting in e.g.
<ref name="Scotsman2016">{{Cite web
  | title       = Obituary: Marianne Ihlen, Leonard Cohen’s muse
  | last        = Davidson
  | first       = Phil
  | work        = scotsman.com
  | date        = 13 Aug 2016
  | accessdate  = 2016-08-14
  | url         = http://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-marianne-ihlen-leonard-cohen-s-muse-1-4201857
  | quote       = 
  | archiveurl  = https://web.archive.org/web/20160822233848/http://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-marianne-ihlen-leonard-cohen-s-muse-1-4201857
  | archivedate = 2016-08-22
  | deadurl     = No
}}</ref>
and
<ref name=IrishTimes2014-08-06>{{cite news
  | url         = http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/leonard-cohen-s-quest-for-something-higher-1.1888286
  | title       = Leonard Cohen’s quest for something higher
  | publisher   = [[Irish Times]]
  | author      = Kevin Courtney
  | date        = 2014-08-06
  | accessdate  = 2014-08-06
  | archiveurl  = 
  | archivedate = 
  | deadurl     = No
  | quote       = And it brought him to the Greek island of Hydra, a haven for poets, writers and artists. One of those was a young Norwegian writer, Axel Jensen, who had moved to Hydra with his wife, Marianne Ihlen, and their infant son. Abandoned by the volatile and capricious Jensen, Ihlen met and began a relationship with the fascinating young Canadian writer with the gentle, measured personality.
}}</ref>
But between 21:27 and 21:45 on 5 April 2017, you returned to the article making 11 individual edits to Marianne Ihlen with the obscure and repeated edit summary "please don't unnecessarily rewrite references, it erodes the utility of the revision control system". Let's just take IrishTimes2014-08-06 as an example that formatted with Tidy citations.js looked like this
<ref name=IrishTimes2014-08-06>{{cite news
  | url         = http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/leonard-cohen-s-quest-for-something-higher-1.1888286
  | title       = Leonard Cohen’s quest for something higher
  | publisher   = [[Irish Times]]
  | author      = Kevin Courtney
  | date        = 2014-08-06
  | accessdate  = 2014-08-06
  | archiveurl  = 
  | archivedate = 
  | deadurl     = No
  | quote       = And it brought him to the Greek island of Hydra, a haven for poets, writers and artists. One of those was a young Norwegian writer, Axel Jensen, who had moved to Hydra with his wife, Marianne Ihlen, and their infant son. Abandoned by the volatile and capricious Jensen, Ihlen met and began a relationship with the fascinating young Canadian writer with the gentle, measured personality.
}}</ref>
but where you chose to spend two minutes to make it look like this:
<ref name=IrishTimes2014-08-06>
{{cite news
| url         = http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/leonard-cohen-s-quest-for-something-higher-1.1888286
| title       = Leonard Cohen’s quest for something higher
| publisher   = [[Irish Times]]
| author      = Kevin Courtney
| date        = 2014-08-06
| accessdate  = 2014-08-06
| archiveurl  = 
| archivedate = 
| deadurl     = No 
| quote       = And it brought him to the Greek island of Hydra, a haven for poets, writers and artists. One of those was a young Norwegian writer, Axel Jensen, who had moved to Hydra with his wife, Marianne Ihlen, and their infant son. Abandoned by the volatile and capricious Jensen, Ihlen met and began a relationship with the fascinating young Canadian writer with the gentle, measured personality.
}}
</ref>
The changes are
(a) adding a line break after the opening ref tag before the template's curly brackets
(b) removing the two indenting spaces before the pipe characters
(c) adding a line break after the template's curly brackets before the closing ref tag
I am all for clarity of the code by e.g. using LDRs and vertically aligned citation templates, but your changes add nothing in that respect and are a waste of time compared to what can be done with Tidy citations.js in seconds.
11 edits like this are not only a waste of time, they are clogging up the page history.
And finally, you do not even apply your preferred formatting to all references. When you are "done" with your 11th edit here, some references are still in the format made by Tidy citations.js. If you attempt to do a job, try to do it properly. It is, ironically, you who "unnecessarily rewrite citations".
Please make edit summaries that describe your changes, not edit summaries that cast doubtful aspersions on other editors. For this purpose, please acquaint yourself with H:ES.
You go on to make two edits here and here with the repeated edit summary "removal of linefeeds has to be done with care, or it erodes the utility of the revision control system". Again you are casting aspersion instead of describing your edits. Please become aware that a blank line after a section heading is optional, read MOS:HEAD. Paradoxically this kind of edits fully qualify, in your own words, as purely cosmetic -- and frankly unnecessary -- refactoring of how the article's raw markup source appeared in the editor, and again, your edits are applied without any consistency: you add a blank line after the headings Relationships with Axel Jensen and Leonard Cohen and Legacy but the headings Early life, Later life, and Illness and death are left without a blank line after the section headings (edit view).
I am going to re-apply consistent formatting, and hope we are not going to spend more time on such matters in the future. Sam Sailor 02:20, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
  • You find that the tidy citations.js script is helpful to you, when you fill out a new {{cite}} template? That's great! Please keep using it on the new {{cite}} templates that you create!

    Are you saying, however, that you think it is a good thing to make unnecessary changes to existing templates? You seem to be saying that. And your recent edits seem to have made unnecessary changes to templates that worked already worked fine.

  • I leave references in the form I found them, unless they are broken. If they are broken, or are archaic bare-url references, I fix them in my preferred style. But if I add archiveurl fields to an existing {{cite}} template that someone else wrote, all on one line, I add those fields in the least intrusive way I can, so the reference remains on one line, and doesn't erode the value of diffs. I did that here.

    Yes, I left some of the article's references with all fields on one line -- because that is how they were first drafted.

  • There is a well-known principle in practical engineering, and other practical activities, often paraphased as "If it is not broke, don't fix it."
  • You seem to be labouring under the misconception that I made unnecessary changes to the article's {{cite}} templates, when I instead restored them to their original condition. You wrote:
"And finally, you do not even apply your preferred formatting to all references. When you are 'done' with your 11th edit here, some references are still in the format made by Tidy citations.js. If you attempt to do a job, try to do it properly. It is, ironically, you who 'unnecessarily rewrite citations'".
Yes, yes, yes, if we try to do a job, we should do it properly. On November 11th, I added eleven new references to this article. Subsequently someone rewrote them, lapsing from the principle of "if it is not broke, don't fix it." No, I did not change the form of any references. So, what you point to as an inconsistency, on my part, is nothing of the kind, thank you very much. The job I set myself was to restore the references I added, to their original state, which I knew worked. Some of them had not only been refactored, they had had minor edits made. I had used google translate, for the translated titles of some of the references to Norwegian papers, and someone had replaced them with improved translations. If I had blithely pasted my original factoring back in, all at once, I would have disrespectfully have thrown away the improved translations. That's why I restored them one at a time, so I could individually check each reference, one at a time, to see if any actual improvements had been made.
  • No, I didn't unnecessarily alter any of the {{cite}} templates I didn't create myself. I didn't do this because, if I had done so, I would have been undermining the utility of diffs for everyone else.
  • You asserted:
"11 edits like this are not only a waste of time, they are clogging up the page history."
Let me help you out. Go take another look at the article revision history page. Over on the left hand side of the page there are two columns of circles. Did you know you can look at a whole sequence of revisions by clicking on those circles! Click on the circle next the first revision you want to look at, in the left most column; then click on the circle, in the other columen, next to the last revision in the sequence, and hit enter. You get shown a combined diff amalgamating all the revisions in that sequence. I hope this information helps you.
  • I have been contributing to the wikipedia since its golden age. Sadly, there are fewer and fewer people adding new content, and keeping existing articles up to date.
  • I routinely return to articles that I worked on, many years ago, because I have an update. Well, the first thing I do, is ask for a diff, usually between the last version I edited, years ago, and the current version. Alternately, between a version I know I read carefully, and the current version. I do so to look for genuine changes to what the article tells readers. There is no point adding an update to an article about new developments, if someone else had the same idea, and already added an update.
  • What I have found, in recent years, is that I will return to an article I started, and, when I look at the article's revision history, I'll see dozens of other editors had edited the article. Well, that sounds good, right, since this is a collaborative project. Then, when I do that diff, practically the whole article lights up. On closer scrutiny of that diff, there will be clues that many of the edits were merely cosmetic -- what you call "tidying" I find that, to really check for genuine editorial changes to the article's actual content I have to step through each individual revision, one at a time.
  • Increasingly, what I have found, is that although lot of other contributors made edits to the article, all of those edits were either replacing the templates the article used with more modern templates, or the tidying you seem to think is a good idea. I routinely find that the article's actual content, what it tells our readers, hasn't been altered at all.
  • That so many of the people who enjoyed adding new content, and enjoyed keeping articles current and up to date have been driven away is heartbreaking.
  • Now, if those dozens of people who made all those changes to the article's metadata had been more careful, the diffs I tried to use to look for genuine changes to the article's content would have shown me that their had been no editorial change.
  • You made a big edit, that included adding unnecessary linefeeds, justifying your edits saying:
"Please become aware that a blank line after a section heading is optional, read MOS:HEAD."
  • Please feel free to place a blank line after any new section heading you create. Or not. As you say, it is optional. Unfortunately, that MOS page is silent as to whether you or I should add a blank line after a section heading, to an existing section. IMO that MOS page should urge contributors to be careful to resist the temptation to add a cosmetic linefeed to an existing section heading, as you did in your big edit.
  • Ideally, the paragraphs in the before and after columns should line up, be adjacent. When the diff system places the same paragraphs adjacent to one another, it is smart enough to provide detailed inner highlighting of those paragraphs, showing individual changes to spelling, punctuation, and rephrasing. A reader can easily see where a sentence has been removed, or a new sentence added. They can see when a sentence has been rewritten.
  • But, because you added unnecessary linefeeds, for purely cosmetic reasons, the paragraphs DON'T line up. The diff engine can't help us by providing that detailed highlighting of the small scale changes. Consider the paragraph that begins with "She fell in love with Norwegian writer Axel Jensen when they were both teenagers." How can a reader tell if you altered that paragraph. They can't rely on diff to tell them. They have to visually recognize the paragraphs are the same, or similar. Are they the same? Or merely similar? Because you eroded the value of the diff engine with your extra linefeeds it place a very considerable -- and unnecessary -- cognitive burden on other contributors to recognize that you changed the references to use the {{r}} template. Maybe you made other changes? Maybe your purposely, or accidentally, changed the spelling of some words, or purposely or accidentally, changed some punctuation.
  • By adding unncessary linefeeds, motivated soley by a concern for the cosmetic, you changed checking your changes from seconds, to minutes.
  • I suggest that, from now on, when you read MOS:HEAD saying a blank line following a section heading is optional, you should interpret this as,its optional for the person who first adds the section, and the first paragraph. If that person placed a blank line after the heading, every subsequent contributor should leave that blank line, even those who don't like how it looks. And if that person didn't leave one, even though some of us might prefer one, we should honor the principle of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Geo Swan (talk) 11:28, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

f you had been more respec

f you had been more respec ... Use preview before saving; for help read Show preview.

I notice that in no instance above do you point to a guideline that supports your ideas of editing and formatting.

The spirit of WP:MOS is clear: "The goal is ... consistent and precise language, layout, and formatting." When it comes to formatting citations, a script like Tidy citations.js does a good job by and large, but if you want to uphold some sort of opinion that citation formats should not be changed from how they were first drafted - it is to me obscure what it is you really want - then your next step should be to open a RfC on the appropriate project page to get community feedback. I understand you better when in regards to MOS:HEAD you write If that person placed a blank line after the heading, every subsequent contributor should leave that blank line. I guess that theoretically could be done, but to avoid having to look through the entire page history it could only be done by adding a hidden message similar to {{anchor comment}} saying something to the effect that <!-- Please do not remove the blank line following this heading.--> or <!-- Please do not add a blank line following this heading.-->, and that to me seems so overly complicated that I doubt it will gain much traction if any. WP:KISS comes to mind. Feel free to open a RfC also in this regard, but please post no more personal opinions regarding formatting on my user talk page.

A few more comments:

  • Let me help you out. ... Over on the left hand side of the page there are two columns of circles. Cmt.: Let me help you out with terminology again: those "circles" are called radio buttons. Did you know that loading responsiveHistoryCompare.js makes revision selection even easier? I notice that your global.js and your common.js are both redlinked, and that your monobook.js contains only one entry, but why not start by installing Tidy citations.js: Add {{subst:js|User:Meteor sandwich yum/Tidy citations.js}} to either your common.js or your skin script file, save the file and bypass your browser cache. For help on usage refer to User:Meteor sandwich yum/Tidy citations.
  • You made a big edit, that included adding unnecessary linefeeds. Cmt.: Wrong again, I removed your unnecessary blank lines. Check out WP:WIKEDDIFF and see if that could possibly eliminate some of the misreadings.
  • IMO that MOS page should urge contributors to be careful to resist the temptation to add a cosmetic linefeed to an existing section heading, as you did in your big edit. Cmt.: You are repeating yourself and you are still wrong, I removed your unnecessary blank lines, I added none. If you want the wording of MOS:HEAD changed, bring it up on the project talk page, but that's weird since you have added blank lines.
  • Because you eroded the value of the diff engine with your extra linefeeds it place a very considerable -- and unnecessary -- cognitive burden on other contributors to recognize that you changed the references to use the {{r}} template. Cmt.: I suppose we are now talking about this diff, but again, no extra line breaks were added, so if you find it difficult to recognize the change of e.g. <ref name=Nrk /> to {{R|Nrk}} perhaps the reason is something else.
  • By adding unncessary linefeeds, motivated soley by a concern for the cosmetic, you changed checking your changes from seconds, to minutes. Hmmm. I "changed checking my changes from seconds, to minutes"? Right. Sorry, such nonsense is not productive and calls for a wrap. Consider this section closed. Sam Sailor 08:40, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

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Wikidata weekly summary #256

could you please be more careful...

In this comment you wrote: "We would appreciate a source for your above mentioned claim." Did I add the assertion that Lorca Cohen had a second child? No. I did not.

It was added in the first of these four minor edits, made by someone else. Geo Swan (talk) 00:01, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football. Legobot (talk) 04:23, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

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