User talk:K.e.coffman/Archive/2018/June

Musiał

K.e. if you are genuinely sure that Musiał should not be in the Bielski article, please go ahead and revert me, I’ll not challenge you. I’m trusting you 0 at this point taking into consideration your experience and regardless the fact that I think Musiał should stay. Just please be aware that it seems that there are massive attempts of removal of all Polish historian with the particular narrative among other things. GizzyCatBella (talk) 02:54, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@GizzyCatBella: it might be better if you self-revert. In any case, a book in German is not very helpful to en.wiki readers, regardless of contents. --K.e.coffman (talk) 03:09, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Re: MatchWare, etc.

Oh dear! No, I'm not affiliated with any of the pages that I work on. I just really like Wikipedia and coding and want to help contribute. I am new and working on learning how to be a better Wiki author. One day it is my goal to earn Wiki moderator! I have a hard time accepting criticism and imperfection and have been working with my therapist on transforming that behavior to be a healthy striving to learn from them, instead.

Sometimes when I go to the community portal, I try to help out with requests for articles/revisions that I feel positively towards, or that I might know a little about (such as editing spreadsheets), or have heard of, or that jived with me from a news aggregator. Is that normal? I hope that's normal. Sometimes when I feel tired I just want to contribute to what makes me feel happy and satisfied, it helps me sleep well. Reriksenus (talk) 03:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Reriksenus: It's not common that unaffiliated editors create articles on closely related subjects that are marginally notable, such as LotLinx and its founder Len Short. This is called WP:walled garden and is a common trait of WP:COI-based editing. To reduce the impression that your edits are COI-related, you could try improving existing articles, such as in Category:Articles with topics of unclear notability. Please let me know if you have any questions. --K.e.coffman (talk) 03:33, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Your milhist review essay

Oh goodness. What a great essay. Not only because of the "clean" myth in fan boy anglophone historiography. But because [gushing] you cited an essay I commenced oh so long ago on how to write historiographically on the wiki (and thus clear our selves of myths like a "clean" wehrmacht.). I enjoyed it greatly, and then as an added bonus I saw an essay that I had started so long ago. For historiography, not fanism! Fifelfoo (talk) 11:40, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

@Fifelfoo: Yes, it's a great essay: Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (history). I wish it was used more widely. Part of the challenge is convincing others, which is not always successful. For example, after this discussion Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Archive 140#GA / FA articles, I created this; quoted material comes from the thread. --K.e.coffman (talk) 23:47, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

@Fifelfoo: I also plugged it here: [1]. --K.e.coffman (talk) 01:23, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Gunnar Paulsson

You might want to note that after you brought up Gunnar Paulsson at WP:AE as an example of a type of reliable source that should be used in this topic area, User:Icewhiz has preemptively started attacking Paulsson's BLP [2]. As if there was need of any more proof that this is just WP:AGENDA driven editing. He'll use far-right sources (like "prawy.pl") when it suits his POV, and he'll attack and remove established scholarly sources when that suits his POV, all the time going around claiming he wants to do just the opposite.

(and btw, I really appreciate your work on WW2 articles and your efforts to remove the Nazi apologia crap).Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:57, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I will note that what got me looking at Paulsson (though his book seemed to be making claims out of academic consensus - I did not look into it) was a different editor bringing a book by Leo Cooper as a source, in this diff - 11:05, 5 June 2018. Researching Leo Cooper's credentials, I came across this bruhahah related to Paulsson, which led to my edit at 14:45, 5 June 2018. I will furthermore note that it seems that while some novel aspects of Paulsson's book were welcomed by some reviewers, his statistics (and assumptions leading to them) have been strongly criticized by multiple scholars in a peer-reviewed setting - e.g. historian Havi Dreifuss has written a couple of strong critiques (in 2010, and 2014).Icewhiz (talk) 15:13, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

@Volunteer Marek: it's possible that the source is being misused. I first came across Paulsson via the Zegota article where he was misquoted & used via the apparently ubiquitous Mark Paul. I suspect that someone may have to get the book itself and see how it's being used. I had to do this on the Arthur Nebe article. Nebe was commander of Einsatzgruppe B, responsible for ~50,000 murders while under his leadership. The 2015 version of the article presented him as a committed anti-Nazi who "worked to reduce the atrocities committed".

This was cited to: Hannes Heer; Klaus Naumann (2004). War Of Extermination: The German Military In World War II. I said to myself: Wait, what? Is this the same Nebe of the gas vans?? Indeed, the quote was in the book, but it was listed as an example of post-war apologia by the 20 July plotters. Two other reliable sources were misused as well. So anything is possible. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:28, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I have the Paulsson book. He's not being misquoted.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:53, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Deleting VC firms

Based on your feedback on other edits you seem to clearly think all EU VC firms are insignificant. May I suggest you visit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Venture_capital_firms_of_the_United_Kingdom and mark all as AfD? Most are clearly not in fulfilment of your criteria for acceptance as are many, many here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Venture_capital_firms_of_the_United_States Misterpottery (talk) 07:15, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Misterpottery: I frequently participate in company AfDs; I don't have a specific agenda against VC firms. I did notice that such articles are basically repositories of (frequently nn) tech startups, such as here: Lerer Hippeau Ventures#Portfolio. It's sort of a promotional walled garden that is not benefiting the project. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:13, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi @K.e.coffman: - my main issue is that there seems to be a significant bias against EU/UK firms in English Wikipedia. There are many firms in the US I'd consider equivalent to the ones that are AfD'd here yet there seems to be a bias in the US to allow them if they've been created previously and/or have one or two successful portfolio companies. It feels like the UK in particular is penalised in this industry and thus the quality of UK PE and venture capital content is diminished. Misterpottery (talk) 08:46, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@Misterpottery: I'm looking at Category:Venture capital firms of the United States and have nominated / PRODed a few. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:30, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your work here, K.e.coffman. Nominating spam for deletion regardless of location is the lord's work. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:40, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Gurbaksh Chahal

As you may remember, the Gurbaksh Chahal article was shut down for a year for editing warring. As soon as the shutdown expired, it started up again. FYI Chisme (talk) 22:55, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

@Chisme: would it make sense to get the page protected again? K.e.coffman (talk) 23:08, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

I think so. I don't see these guys relenting, like last time. Chisme (talk) 23:10, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

I put in a request for page protection. Some people don't know when they are beaten. Lepricavark (talk) 00:29, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Gas vans

Hi, there is an ongoing discussion whether gas vans were "invented" by the Soviets during the Great Purge. Some of the argument is based upon sources in Russian. Since you understand Russian would you mind to take a look? I have asked on the talk page whether there were objections if I would turn to a Russian speaker and there were none. Regards,--Assayer (talk) 20:32, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Nazi Mass Murder should be utilized when possible for that article - there are other works, of course, but it should be quite useful. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:37, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Well, unfortunately that work has not been used for the article, yet. (Imho, the whole article has begun to put undue weight on the Soviet gas vans.) I have a copy of the Kogon book, but it is not helpful for that particular question. The German original is from 1983. The evidence for the Soviet gas vans surfaced only after 1990. Those are occasionally mentioned in books on the Holocaust like by Jeremy Black, but that is nothing substantial. For anyone interested: The most recent research can be found in Günter Morsch, Bertrand Perz (ed.): Neue Studien zu nationalsozialistischen Massentötungen durch Giftgas. Historische Bedeutung, technische Entwicklung, revisionistische Leugnung. Berlin: Metropol, 2011. This volume was conceived of as a follow up to the classic book by Kogon et al. Regards, --Assayer (talk) 22:24, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, that article is an example of the typical wikipedia article sourcing - websites, some news articles, and some google book searches. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:32, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

(by talk page stalker) Gas vans are a very simple contraption - I wouldn't be surprised if they were independently invented in a few other places as well (as they present an excuse to the unsuspecting victims and facilitate "impersonal" killing (though the Soviets - Vasily Blokhin - in some cases were quite up close and personal)), however their most notable use is clearly in the hands of the Nazis.Icewhiz (talk) 07:33, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I tweaked the detail of the first part of the Nazi Germany section with RS cites. The main bone of contention appears to be with the Soviet Union section. Kierzek (talk) 17:34, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Helpshift

I added a reference to Helpshift, and I think that there are now enough references from reliable sources to establish notability. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 18:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

@Eastmain: I'm not convinced with the sources; let's see how the AfD plays out: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Helpshift. --K.e.coffman (talk) 23:35, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

A contribution to your "problematic WWII content" series

Describing gang rape at an extermination camp as the female prisoners "entertaining" the SS guards during "orgies" in Kurt Bolender. Catrìona (talk) 17:58, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

@Catrìona: JHC! That's rather distressing. I added it to User:K.e.coffman#Debasement of victims; I seem to have a category for everything, no matter how shocking. But thanks for sharing; please feel free to propose other entries. --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:06, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

A particularly bad case of "language school" in Alexander Löhr.

Thanks for all that you're doing to clean this up and bring it to light! Catrìona (talk) 15:35, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

@Catrìona: thanks, that's a good one. Still plenty to go around :-). K.e.coffman (talk) 03:58, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Truer words never spoken...

Here... I've got no desire to willingly stick my neck much further into the editing topic given the toxicity on all sides. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:28, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

@Ealdgyth: a lot of disruption in the area, unfortunately. And what's with editors having AE-like discussions on other people's Talk pages? This was good advice, however: [3]. I chucked here: what you two want me to do... play mama? Hopefully, people will heed it. --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:54, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

HIAG

If you would have my help, I’d be glad to continue work on the article in order to get it ready for a second try at FAC. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:26, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

@Ealdgyth: Thanks for the offer; that would be great! --K.e.coffman (talk) 18:30, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

I think that my second round of prose comments might have gotten buried in all the sourcing stuff, but it would probably be useful to look them over before renominating.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:24, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

HIAG ... again...

I (finally) got in a few more of the sources. Could you kindly email me Large also? Ealdgyth - Talk 12:30, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

@Ealdgyth: Responded via email; pls let me know if you don't receive it. --K.e.coffman (talk) 01:58, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

I did get it, but haven’t gotten to checking it yet. I ended up spending a good bit of time this morning on the Polish massacre page...if you can send that other article, that would be great. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:21, 30 June 2018 (UTC)