Talk:Wani (dragon)

Crocodiles

Wani is translated as 'crocodile' in the Columbia Anthology of Traditional Japanese Literature (ed. Haruo Shirane), p35-36. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsm77 (talk • contribs) 13:31, 1 September 2010 (UTC) Incidentally, this comes from the translation by Don Philippi.--Rsm77 (talk) 13:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Uh, did you notice the lead sentence translates wani as "crocodile"? Keahapana (talk) 01:54, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I did notice that, but my point is that there's an incredibly lengthy discussion about what the translation should be, mainly based on comparatively old sources. The fact that a contemporary anthology uses a translation (more recent than anything cited on the page) that translates as 'crocodile' might be of interest to people who visit this page. It seems odd that there are nine books listed as references, but the most recent one was published almost ninety years ago, especially when serious Japanese study didn't start in the west until the 19th century.

Incidentally, I'm not saying that 'crocodile' is the best translation (and I don't want to change the name of the page). To be honest, given the absence of crocodiles in old Japan it sounded a bit weird, which led to me finding this page. Having said that, I'm not saying other translations are better. --Rsm77 (talk) 23:58, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Sharks

I find all the speculation by non-native scholars from around a hundred years ago in this article to be a little ridiculous. In Japanese dictionaries, there are two definitions for 'wani' (鰐), the first describing modern crocodiles, and the second that it is an old word for 'shark'. See, for example, http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8&p=鰐&dtype=0&dname=0na&stype=0&index=19843600&pagenum=1 You don't need to know much Japanese to understand the second definition. See also the disambiguation page in Japanese Wikipedia which gives the same two definitions plus the name of a Dostoyevsky short story. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/鰐

The Philippi translation I mention above can be let off as showing poetic licence in translating the word as 'crocodile', but basically these creatures are sharks. Calling them dragons is a bit like calling kitsune fairies or sprites or something, instead of foxes. There seems to be too much about translation here anyway - the article should be about 'wani' themselves, and not how to translate the word.

If I'm feeling sufficiently bold, I might have a go at making the article clearer, and cutting it down to a more reasonable size.--Rsm77 (talk) 07:33, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Re-reading my comment from last year, I have clearly changed my mind about some things.--Rsm77 (talk) 07:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, eating my words here, if I go to the Japanese article on the Hare of Inaba, things seem to be more complicated. Though the shark theory is most popular, there are indeed different theories about what the 'wani' in Kojiki are. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/因幡の白兎#.E3.80.8C.E5.92.8C.E9.82.87.E3.80.8D.E3.81.AB.E3.81.A4.E3.81.84.E3.81.A6 It's a bit too complicated for me to get to the bottom of right now, so I suppose I'll leave the article be. Still think it would benefit from the input of some more up-to-date scholarship though (and some trimming).--Rsm77 (talk) 07:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)