Talk:Volodymyr Ivanovych Rybak

Source with more info

Hi extended-confirmed editors, please incorporate this source https://en.odfoundation.eu/a/6114,kidnaping-and-assassination-of-volodymyr-rybak-terrorists-have-cruelly-dealt-with-a-member-of-horlivka-city-council/ with more info on a subject into an article. @Mzajac , @Volunteer Marek , @Yulia Romero , others, thank you! Manyareasexpert (talk) 17:27, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Recent page move I do not agree with

user:HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith moved this page from Volodymyr Rybak (murder victim) to its current name Volodymyr Ivanovych Rybak. I do not agree with this move and I want the old page name back. I think that the current name is not consistent with WP:COMMONNAME, "Ivanovych" is his patronymic. Patronymics are not part of common names, see the article names of other Eastern Europeans like Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. A patronymic is an Eastern European way of saying "Sir Volodymyr Rybak" which sounds very unnatural for an article name. HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith justified his page move by saying it sounds more neutral, but I see it as he moved to page to a more unnatural name. Also no other biographical Wikipedia page on English language Wikipedia uses patronymics in article names, per consistency in English language Wikipedia this one should also not do this. I do see that Volodymyr Rybak (murder victim) is not the most pleasant name for a Wikipedia article, Volodymyr Rybak (local politician) or Volodymyr Rybak (Batkivshchyna politician) might be better names. Also this page move to a completely new name might be easier to do then get back to the old name...... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 14:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I moved it to differentiate him from Volodymyr Rybak (politician) by just having their full names. I agree with you that "local politician" or "Batkivshchyna politician" could also work as an article title. HappyWith (talk) 15:53, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Do you think Volodymyr I. Rybak and Volodymyr V. Rybak would work better? It's shorter while still WP:NATURALly disambiguating them by their full names. HappyWith (talk) 17:47, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

My point is that a patronymic in an English Wikipedia pagename is not a thing that belong in English speaking Wikipedia.... Shortening a patronymic does not make it it less unnatural to me. The general rule in these cases is to title the article with the name by which the person is best known. See: WP:MAIDEN. Volodymyr Ivanovych Rybak was not the name used when the death of Volodymyr Rybak was reported; not in Ukrainian press and certainly not in international press. He was names Volodymyr Rybak and I can not remember any news outlet calling him "Volodymyr Ivanovych Rybak". I think you are confused with Ukrainian Wikipedia rules, Ukrainian Wikipedia rules do not apply here. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:02, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith: WP:MAIDEN clearly states: Only for very few Russians is the patronymic customary in English, notwithstanding widespread use of patronymics in the native language. This is not different for Ukrainians (who are not russians of course because only russians are russians, but I am really sure you thought that already )). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:11, 29 November 2023 (UTC)