Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground

Stop removing soundtrack

Some people keep removing the sound track (not just from this but the whole series). For no aparent reason at least explain why you are before you do it please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.162.217.46 (talk) 15:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate list of information. Soundtracks are not notable, except in rare cases. Thanks! Fin©™ 16:02, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

True, but in some cases soundtracks are indeed notable. So much more Tony Hawk games that they have spawned numerous successful commercial CDs based on the games. Regarding your comment about lists, it is true that lists are undesirable under normal circumstances. But let me pint out that many pages for other games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero contain song lists. And although it can be argued that those lists are justified for those games being considered "musical" games, the Tony Hawk games were some of the first games to feature actual songs as background music. On top of that, the Tony Hawk games contain some of the best soundtrack music in gaming. So much that this has led the franchise to win numerous nominations and awards. ---djsiniestros (talk) 01:06, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Anyways, regardless of what I have to say, people have been deleting these lists without warning. This is can be considered edit warring and this is, unquestionably, against wikipedia policy.---djsiniestros (talk) 01:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

It is apparent that some editors feel that the relevance of this song list is debatable. I (and judging by some of the comments on talk page and the constant restoring of the soundtrack list) some other editors disagree with this and think it is significant and should be included this article. Tony Hawk's Underground game was nominated for Outstanding Achievement on a Licensed Soundtrack by the Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences. [[1]]. The current song list may need some improvement so I invite anyone to go ahead and do that if they wish, but please do not delete it without making your case against it here first. I will bring the list back in 10 days if nobody objects.---djsinietro (talk) 10:13, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Couple of points:

• You state above that the Tony Hawk games were some of the first to feature actual songs. This isn't really relevant (unless it had a lot of coverage in the games press for doing so, I can't remember if it did myself).
• You also say they "contain some of the best soundtrack music" - this is totally subjective and not relevant.
• "spawned numerous successful commercial CDs" - can you source that?
• The burden on editors in wikipedia is on those adding content to articles, not removing it. If an editor feels content is unencyclopedic, they are entitled to remove it. Saying content shouldn't be deleted because it could be improved is not an argument. If you want the content to stay, then make sure it is encyclopedic when you add it to the article, rather than just adding content in the hope it will be improved.
• Just because people want the soundtrack to be on the page is not a good enough reason to disregard policy.
• Any comparisons to Guitar Hero are irrelevant.

If you can find apt third party sources describing each soundtracks' contribution to the game, feel free to create a section with these sources and maybe a list of tracks from the released soundtrack CD. A list of songs contained in a game is not encyclopedic. Thanks! Fin©™ 12:04, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

This is what I think:

• The first Tony Hawk game (along with Thrasher: Skate and Destroy) was indeed the first notable game feature "spoken" songs in a non-musical genre (such as DDR). For a brief history of music in gaming check out this gamespot article [[2]]. This article in particular cites this game (and T:S&D) as landmark games in the history of music in video games.
• It is very true that a statement such as "contain some of the best soundtrack music" is subjective. Then, again most reviews (this is subjective to which game in particular) cite the music as one of the strong points of the game. Here are 2 links for the reviews for the 1st and 2nd game respectively. [[3]] [[4]].
• The music in the games spawned multiple CDs releases. If they weren't successful, why would they keep releasing soundtracks? Up to THAW, the only TH game not to receive a CD release was TH4. Anyways, a quick google search will show you that there were at least 3. (TH2,TH3,THAW). Here are the amazon.com pages for the soundtracks for TH3 and THAW (amazon didn't have pages for the other cds)[[5]][[6]]. Info on the rest (TH, TH2, THU, and THU2) can be found on [[7]] (a CD data base). To find the information: deselect artist and search "tony hawk".
• It is true that the burden of proof restes with the editors adding and they should cite their sources. However, unless it is defaming or highly likely to be challenged, and this is per wikipedia policy, other editors are advised to: A)request a source B)move the content to the talk page and request a source. This is done to give other editors time to cite their sources. This is something that hasn't been done for the TH articles and I suggest everybody do before they delete something. This is specially important as it can be very frustrating for new editors to have their work deleted with no apparent explanation. For more info check Wikipedia:Verifiability.
• People want these lists on the articles because they believe they are relevant. Again, we go back to the issue of editors deleting them without giving explanation, which led to some people restoring them again and so on. Not counting the last couple of edits where I was involved, some of these articles have been going back and forth more than 5 times. I can see some editors asking for explanations on talk pages, but no answers. This can become very frustrating, specially for new users. It is called edit warring and is against Wikipedia policy. I will not bring this up anymore.
• The comparison I made to Guitar Hero was to make the point that not all lists are undesirable. I used the Guitar Hero example because those lists contain songs as well. The magnitude of relevance for those lists will be undoubtly higher than for a TH game, since gameplay there revolves around songs. The list of songs on that game on that instance is good and considered encyclopedic. This is the point I wanted to make, not all lists with songs are bad. Hopefully this is clear so let's not bring it up anymore.

Finally, I want to emphasize the importance of the music to these games. The lists with songs are an appropriate addition to the TH articles. And I specially point out to their value to list the songs on the soundtrack CDs (which definitely deserve more than a line that mentions them)---djsinietro (talk) 23:09, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Then add an appropriately sourced paragraph on the soundtrack, with a list of tracks that were included on the soundtrack disc itself if needs be. Don't simply add a list of songs because it is certainly an indiscriminate list of information. Thanks! Fin©™ 20:05, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The soundtrack shouldnt have been deleted:

• Soundtracks are notable. The soundtrack was the reason I came to this article and Im sure is the reason many people come to this, and other articles. Just the fact that it has a CD should mean that its notable, but even if it didnt have one, its still a piece of information just as notable as the game mechanics and the story.
• A soundtrack is not an indiscriminate list of information. An indiscriminate list of information is defined by Wikipedia policy as a Plot-only description of fictional works, a Lyrics database, an Excessive listing of statistics, or a News report. Soundtrack does not fit any of these categories.
• Many other Video Game and Movie articles have soundtracks listed. So, Falcon9x5, you are right when you say "having a soundtrack is like having a listing of every song used in a movie on a movie page" although there is nothing wrong with that and it has been done.
• Finally, removing a topic without discussion is indeed edit warring and is against policy. The topic should be kept until decided otherwise through consensus.

T4k11 (talk) 22:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Because you came to the article looking for the soundtrack doesn't make it notable. What if someone came to an article looking for cheat codes? Does that mean wikipedia articles should include cheats? Just because other video game and movie articles have soundtracks listed does not mean this article should. Edit warring doesn't really apply when following policy, nor does consensus (as far as I'm aware) - "because people want it" isn't an acceptable reason to disregard policy. Thanks! Fin©™ 08:16, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is mine and many other people's first stop for information on anything, and I have looked on wikipedia when trying to find the soundtracks for many games or films, because chances are one of the many editors of wikipedia knows and can supply the soundtrack, and very few other websites bother to have the soundtrack listed.

Lately though I've found soundtracks have been removed from almost any article that once contained them, and yet it seems the complete opposite to what the purpose of wikipedia should be to start stripping down information on a subject by classifying it as "not relevant", rather than providing the detailed information that people are always using the net to find.

Besides, how is a soundtrack on a game that was nominated for an award for that sountrack not relevant, anyway? Especially when that award is currently listed within the article? If you ever played any Tony Hawk game, you'd know the music in it was as relevant to the game as the story, or mechanics, or anything else.

What is more important, providing the information people are looking for, or fulfilling some badly described and widely uncirculated vision of what Wikipedia should be by its policy writers/creators?

"'because people want it' isn't an acceptable reason to disregard policy." - I fail to see people wanting something is not a valid reason to include it. Who's lack of foresight was it to think that the information people want doesn't matter, from a website that's purpose is to provide information? DemonLordTyrus (talk) 00:56, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I will be rebuilding the soundtrack on all of these Articles. I already did THPS 1 I will be needing some help with the rest thank you - Magicianbink

Heres the soundtrack, definitely one of if not the best soundtracks in a game imo.

• Aceyalone - Rapps On Deck
• The Addicts - Viva La Revolution
• Alkaline Trio - Armageddon
• Anacron - A Prototype
• Angry Amputees - She Said
• Assorted Jelly Beans - Rebel Yell
• Authority Zero - Everyday
• Bad Religion - Big Bang
• Blind Iris - Drive
• Blue Collar Special - Don't Wait
• Bracket - 2 Rak 005
• The Browns - American Werewolf In Calgary
• Busdriver - Imaginary Places
• Camarosmith - It's Alright
• Cannibal Ox - Iron Galaxy
• The Clash - White Riot
• Clutch - Impetus
• Crash And Burn - Crazy And Stupid
• Dan The Automator feat. Kool Keith - A Better Tomorrow
• Deltron 3030 - Positive Contact
• DJ Qbert - Cosmic Assassins
• Dropkick Murphys - Time To Go
• Electric Frankenstein - Annie's Grave
• Entombed - To Ride, Shoot Straight And Speak The Truth
• The Explosion - No Revolution
• Five Horse Johnson - Mississippi King
• Flamethrower - I Want It All
• Frog One - Blah Blah
• Fu Manchu - California Crossing
• GBH - Crush 'Em
• The Hellacopters - (Gotta Get Some Action) Now!
• The Herbaliser feat. MF Doom - It Ain't Nuttin'
• High On Fire - Hung, Drawn And Quartered
• The Hookers - The Legend Of Black Thunder
• Hot Water Music - Remedy
• In Flames - Embody The Invisible
• J Live - Braggin' Wrights
• Jane's Addiction - Suffer Some
• Juggaknots - The Circle Part 1
• Jurassic 5 feat. Percy P & Big Daddy Kane - A Day At The Races
• Kiss - God Of Thunder
• Kiss - Lick It Up
• Kiss - Rock N' Roll All Night
• LA Symphony - King Kong
• Lamont - Hotwire
• Living Legends - War Games
• Mastodon - Crusher Destroyer
• The Midnight Evils - Loaded And Lonely
• Mike V & The Rats - The Days
• Mr Complex - Underground Up
• Mr Dibbs - Skin Therapy
• Mr Lif - Phantom
• Murs - Transitions As A Rider
• Nas - The World Is Yours
• Nine Pound Hammer - Run Fat Boy Run
• NOFX - The Separation Of Church And Skate
• Orange Goblin - Your World Will Hate This
• Paint It Black - Womb Envy
• People Under The Stairs - The Next Step Part 2
• Quasimoto - Low Class Conspiracy
• Queens Of The Stone Age - You Think I Ain't Worth A Dollar, But I Feel Like A Millionaire
• R.A. The Rugged Man - King Of The Underground
• Refused - New Noise
• Rise Against - Like The Angels
• Rubber City Rebels - (I Wanna) Pierce My Brain
• S.O.D. - Milk
• Smoke Blow - Circe Of Fear
• Social Distortion - Mommy's Little Monster
• Solace - Indolence
• Stiff Little Fingers - Suspect Device
• Strike Anywhere - Refusal
• Sublime - Seed
• Superjoint Ritual - It Takes No Guts
• Supernatural - Internationally Known
• Transplants - California Babylon
• Unida - Black Woman
• Wildchild - Secondary Protocol
• (Turbonegro - Sailor Man) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.199.193.206 (talk) 07:15, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It would appear to me that there was actually more support for the soundtrack, and it was removed without discussion. Am I wrong? Altormainstream (talk) 13:03, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

See the points I made above. Support for inclusion is not a reason to ignore policy. Thanks! Fin©™ 13:11, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Only problem is I've read the policy and it could be read different ways. It doesn't say there is anything wrong with a soundtrack. Altormainstream (talk) 13:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Which policy? Thanks! Fin©™ 13:20, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

The indiscriminate list policy. But I don't really want to argue, I guess the soundtrack is here so that's good enough. I was really riled up at the time I started this though, so what do I do? sign out and take five days to reply... Altormainstream (talk) 08:07, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The soundtrack should be moved to the main article because it is a key part of the experience the game offers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.251.47 (talk) 22:54, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tony Hawk's Underground/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ProtoDrake (talk · contribs) 08:26, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

It will probably take me a few days to read through the article properly and get back with comments, but I will do my very best. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:26, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Tezero (talk) 16:33, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Right, those were my findings. An instant Pass. Excellent work. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:45, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

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Oral history

• Hester, Blake (August 30, 2017). "From Busted Teeth to Broken TVs: The Oral History of Tony Hawk's Underground". USgamer. Retrieved September 3, 2017.

New major source, an oral history to work in to maintain FA breadth  czar 20:16, 3 September 2017 (UTC)