Talk:Thursday Dinners

Untitled

Of course, the most important thing missing from this article is the significance of these meetings.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.172.218 (talk) 13:50, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Emax's image may be unfree: "used with permission" is not equal to "fairuse". --Ghirlandajo 20:19, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Dinners?

Obiad in Polish is a substantial meal, usually eaten around midday or in the afternoon. It is to be differentiated from kolacja which is an evening meal and therefore translates as Dinner, except in the North of England where people seldom refer to lunch and say "dinner" instead. It is also a class issue. The moneyed tend to speak of lunch in the middle of the day and dinner in the evening. Poniatowski's Thursday gatherings were not Soirées. The meetings were held in the afternoon. They lasted three or four hours and then the participants would withdraw from the Royal Castle or Łazienki Palace and retire home or go on to dinner with family and friends.

For an English speaking readership it is therefore misleading to refer to "dinners". They were actually relatively light meals as an accompaniment to intellectual conversation and presentations by artists and writers. I propose to alter the title to "lunches" as being the historically accurate translation for these and, for the "Wednesday lunches" also, hosted by Stanisław August Poniatowski.--Po Mieczu (talk) 18:25, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Po Mieczu, A bit late (also ping User:Nihil novi, User:Lembit Staan, User:Oliszydlowski who I believe may be interested in this). We should stick with sources and remember WP:COMMONNAME. I found this which clearly uses "Thursday Dinners" in English; also [1] ("The King's Thursday dinners had about 40 men who were invited at least a few times") [2] "I wrote about Thursday's dinners with", [3] "King Stanislaw August

Poniatowski, who invited him regularly to his 'Thursday dinners' and", [4] "Poniatowski, another lover of Catherine, whose Thursday dinners were" and [5], which uses "Donnerstags Diners" in German. For lunches, I only found a single source: [6] "His court, with its own Thursday lunches". As such, I believe we should move the article back to its original name - which, given no RM was done, I will boldly do. If you want to move it back to lunches, please start a WP:RM. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:56, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

The Polish name for the institution hosted by King Stanisław August Poniatowski was and is "obiady czwartkowe".

My Polish-English dictionaries translate "obiad" as "dinner" (one of them also, by way of explanation, adds "midday meal").

The Polish "obiad" indeed takes place about noon, and is typically the principal meal of the day.

I see no reason to rename it "lunch" for Anglophone readers. Regardless of the usual time differences between Anglophone and Polish dinners, both are still the major meals of the respective days.

Thanks.

Nihil novi (talk) 08:35, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Piotrus and Nihil novi, thank you for raising this again. As the only Brit in this discussion, and Britain is in clear decline as I write, I have to relent even if usage on this island would indicate the midday meal, referred to as "dinner" only in a few Northern counties of England. En passant, the terminology is also a matter of class. "Lunch" tends to be eaten by the Queen and the Chattering classes.--Po Mieczu (talk) 12:39, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Po Mieczu, thank you for that insight.

I don't know what it may say about citizens of the American republic, but The American Heritage Dictionary defines "lunch" as "A meal eaten at midday", and "lunch" is the word used for their midday meal by all "United Statesmen", as Gore Vidal called them.

Cheers!

Nihil novi (talk) 21:30, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Po Mieczu, Interesting, Polish Wikipedia says that it is "spożywany w Polsce najczęściej między godziną 12 a 16". Although I think these days it's more like "15-20". Could use some sources. Was historically dinner eaten earlier too? I am a really bad person to ask - I tend to eat my dinners very late, often around 7-8 pm. That said, I also remember my family used to eat early dinners and then late suppers when I was a kid, but I didn't have a supper in ages... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:43, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Po Mieczu and Piotrus:

Among Poles, while dwelling in both hemispheres, I've consumed obiad at midday; and kolacja, evenings.

These days I skip breakfast, eat obiad noonish (or when it's available), and eat kolacja intermittently through the evening until a late bedtime.

Bon appétit!

Nihil novi (talk) 22:09, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Nihil novi and Piotrus, now, my Warsaw grandmother told me:"Eat śniadanie on your own, share obiad with your friends and give kolacja to your enemy". I hardly ever skip porridge in the morning!--Po Mieczu (talk) 23:21, 3 May 2021 (UTC)