Talk:Mary Jane Veloso drug smuggling case

Question

Who is the admin of this page? If the page admin is Indonesian, I move that the admin should connect with Tambayan Philippines in order to get more information regarding this matter. Darriellouiec4 (talk) 00:59, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

You obviously have no idea how Wikipedia works. There is no such thing as a page admin. WWGB (talk) 05:31, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

DYK nomination

I nominated this article Did you know? — someone may wish to check the template or the article to see if it's eligible because I've never nominated for DYK before. Roches (talk) 11:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 19 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Mary Jane Veloso drug smuggling case. (non-admin closure) Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 20:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Mary Jane Veloso → Imprisonment of Mary Jane Veloso – After reading this article, this article looks "event-ish". If this should be an actual biography, then it will discuss the subject more, instead of discussing the event more, hence fitting WP:BLP1E. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 (My "blotter") 07:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

please do not change, as her release from Indonesian prison is the beginning of a new chapter and her involvement in other legal cases will add alot more content in future as events unfold I am sure as she gets more access to the media and is eventually freed freed from Manila jail she will be giving alot of interviews regarding her life up to her arrest in 2010, which can them be incorporated into the article to make it more of a biography 08:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC) WorldTravleerAndPhotoTaker (talk) 08:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

These events will not be notable, and I don't think these events will be covered in newspapers. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 (My "blotter") 09:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. As is, this is structured like a biography, and this seems a lot more than one event. I think given the available information this one may be more logical to structure as a biography - the rules here aren't absolute, we have some editorial choice. Whether we decide to go event based or not, I strongly oppose Imprisonment as an event title, as it doesn't seem to properly reflect the claim to notability or what the page is actually about. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Mary Jane Veloso drug smuggling case or just Velose drug smuggling case is the clearest of all proposed event-type titles. I still think this is logically more focused as a biography, but if we're going to go with event, that is the best. PARAKANYAA (talk) 02:55, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Not opposed to transforming this from a biography to a WP:BLP1E article, only that we should have a better article than suggested. The WP:BLP1E is not her imprisonment, but the actual reason why she was imprisoned, i.e. the actual criminal case. I suppose Mary Jane Velose drug case seems to be a better title, having similar titles to Maggie de la Riva rape case, and Subic rape case. I can be persuaded to Mary Jane Velose drug smuggling case or Mary Jane Velose drug mule case. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:32, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

These examples are from Category:Trials in the Philippines (see also Category:Trials in Indonesia), and while there are articles named like Hultman–Chapman murder case and Chiong murder case, for murders, we have precedent to name it like Murders of Eileen Sarmenta and Allan Gomez for Hultman and Chapman, and Vizconde murders for the Chiong sisters. I'd argue "Drug smuggling of Mary Jane Veloso" and "Rape of Maggie dela Riva" is distasteful, and the "<given name> <crime committed> case" seems to be a good article name for cases such as this. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Sure, this might be good. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 (My "blotter") 09:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

• Per Howard the Duck, move to Mary Jane Veloso drug smuggling case to better reflect third-party coverage on the subject. Whether or not she's granted parole or clemency in the future, the fact remains that she was put on the spotlight for her drug conviction in Indonesian soil. On that note, I suggest rewriting the article to make it a little less biographical. Nineteen Ninety-Four guy (talk) 11:09, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

  I mean, if that's what the sources focus on, it's going to end up looking like a biography article whether it's named that way or not. PARAKANYAA (talk) 02:48, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

  Persons known solely by their criminal cases are named this way (with the victim being the preferred article title). See also Murder of Travis Alexander for the infamous Jodi Arias case and Murder of Meredith Kercher for the infamous Amanda Knox case. As these articles involves humans, these will include biographical information; there's no way around that. Howard the Duck (talk) 19:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

  I've always wondered how far that extends. Because clearly at some level we focus on the perpetrators, e.g. Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, who are solely known for their criminal cases and aren't event focused. Having a one size fits all policy does not work here. PARAKANYAA (talk) 02:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

  Does serial killing not fall under "BLP1E (emphasis mine)? See also Joran van der Sloot.

  You could also argue the crime perpetrated by Veloso was a victimless crime, or that the victim was actually her, so there's that. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

  For the purposes of coverage serial killing is "1E", at least as much as mass murder is, because after they're caught the event ceases. All before that is "1E" for our purposes since it is covered in that manner. The overarching crimes can be understood as one event, unless for some reason said person kept doing it even after they were caught. We just... don't cover it that way, for some reason. And yeah, sure, but that has the same considerations, no? PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:46, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

  FWIW, mass killing and serial killing are different concepts. "Serial criminals" like Alice Guo may rise above BLP1E due to their prolific criminal careers. I suppose Bundy, Gacy and van der Sloot fall into that. Howard the Duck (talk) 01:17, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.