Talk:Majestic 12

CIA Document Confirms President Truman Established a Top-Secret, 12-Man Research and Development Intelligence Operation on 9/24/1947

By chance, I happened upon an apparent CIA document that a Lee M. Graham of Monrovia, California shared with Peter Keisler, Associate Council to President Reagan, on 5/27/1987 as part of a FOIA request he'd submitted some time earlier.

The document can be found on Page 10 of the following PDF, which has been made publicly available by the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library: https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/public/2021-06/40-654-209237722-045-010-2021.pdf

It states that President Truman established a "top secret research and development intelligence operation responsible directly and only to the President of the United States" on 9/24/1947 upon recommendation by Dr. Vannevar Bush and Secretary James Forrestal. It goes on to state that the "[redacted] group" were designated as:

•Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter •Dr. Vannevar Bush •Secy. James V. Forrestal •Gen. Nathan F. Twining •Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg •Dr. Detlev Bronk •Dr. Jerome Hunsaker •Mr. Sidney W. Souers •Mr. Gordon Gray •Dr. Donald Menzel •Gen. Robert M. Montague •Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner

The document appears to be a briefing prepared for Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, who is subsequently referred to as "MJ-1".

Seeing as these are the same twelve men who've been purported to comprise Majestic 12—and since it states these twelve men belong to a "top secret research and development intelligence operation" that was established by President Truman in the same year that Majestic 12 was allegedly established—I believe that this briefing may confirm Majestic 12's existence.

Mr. Graham shared this document with Mr. Keisler in the hopes that he would authenticate it (see Page 6). Mr. Keisler cites Kissinger v. Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press (see Page 4) and states that "we respectfully decline to comply with [his] request."

Since this was a formal correspondence between a man (Mr. Graham) who appeared to be in possession of CIA documentation confirming Majestic 12's existence and the Associate Council to President Reagan (Mr. Keisler), I believe it should be described in some substantive way in this article.

Any of your thoughts, comments, concerns, and/or objections are welcomed. I had little familiarity with Majestic 12 prior to reviewing this document and reading this Wikipedia article, and so I'd appreciate contextual feedback of any kind. Felixkennedy (talk) 07:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Just realized that this document (among others) is widely believed to have been forged as part of a hoax and, furthermore, is already described in some detail in this Wikipedia article.

Please disregard my post and forgive me for my credulity. Evidently, I am a dunce. Felixkennedy (talk) 08:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

1984 controversies in the United States?

This category (see the subject line) has been added to the article by @Dimadick:. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say it is a controversy for 1987? They didn't go public with the documents until '87.Rja13ww33 (talk) 20:45, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

But the documents started circulating in 1984. Dimadick (talk) 20:47, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok.Rja13ww33 (talk) 20:48, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

UFOlogist Stacy

A paragraph about an alleged crash in Mexico was added. The author is UFOlogist Dennis Stacy. The full transcript of the story here, and it concludes that... "In the end it's impossible to prove a negative--that a UFO didn't crash near Guerrero, Mexico, in December 1950. One might just as well search for the proverbial needle in the haystack--or a hole in the ground". I understand it was published by OMNI, which dabbled in fringe, sci-fi and fantasy. In the end, it's a credulous story by a believer, and not the kind of WP:FRIND source that would benefit this article. - LuckyLouie (talk) 15:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't see Omni on our RS list....and in fact, I don't even see it discussed on the RS Noticeboard. I remember it being like you described: a lot of techno/science stuff with the occasional sci-fi stuff. Maybe a brief mention (with proper attribution) would be best?Rja13ww33 (talk) 21:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Surely there's a mention of the contents of the MJ 12 docs by a source that's not an article by a ufologist? - LuckyLouie (talk) 22:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I checked a couple of Stan Friedman's books (which were not self-published; btw sorry, a UFO researcher's book is the only place I could think to check)......and didn't see anything. Checked one of Kevin Randle's books and didn't see anything there either. I did see (on Google Books) a book called 'The Other Roswell: UFO Crash on the Texas-Mexico Border'....but looking at it, I don't think it is the same incident.Rja13ww33 (talk) 04:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Our existing sources in the article likely have mention of this detail (if it is actually a notable detail). I'll look thru them when I get a chance. Unless someone knows exactly where to look; (paging user:Feoffer). - LuckyLouie (talk) 13:35, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

UFOlogist Regehr

A paragraph about "government denials" of MJ-12 was added, again (as above) sourced to statements by a credulous UFOlogist Ron Regehr. The source story merely repeats Regehr's extraordinary claims that the government is covering up aliens, etc. In this case, it isn't appropriate to be cherry picking "facts" from such claims. Especially when couched as a "denial", a framing that strongly implies a cover-up. @Feoffer: if you are not too busy, maybe you know of better sources. I was hoping non-ufologist WP:FRIND sources could be located to cite this tidbit and the one sourced to ufologist Stacy above. - LuckyLouie (talk) 14:28, 18 December 2024 (UTC)