Talk:Macau/Archive 3

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Traditional Chinese, Simplified Chinese and Pinyin are necessary for Chinese names

The usual practice of Wikipedia for including Traditional and Simplified Chinese and Pinyin is a proper way, because it has considered different users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.18.220 (talk • contribs)

Simplified Chinese and Pinyin are NOT commonly and offically used in Macau SAR. You can see clearly that the Chinese language in the emblem of Macau (e.g. Image:COA of Macao.svg)is written in the traditional form of Chinese, so obviously it is nothing wrong indeed to exclude the simplified form. 74.12.181.126 23:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, the information of Hanzi and Pinyin are necessary for Chinese names. It is the usual practice of Wikipedia, even the articles of "China" and "Taiwan" also included Traditional Chinese, Simplified Chinese and Pinyin.

the information of Hanzi and Pinyin are not necessary for Chinese names and I actually didn't see that this is the usual practise of Wikipedia. You can go to the topic of Names of Macau and write down the necessary information that includes both forms of writing. 74.12.181.126 13:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

• Wikipedia has added Simplified Chinese and Pinyin for the names of Kowloon, New Territories and Lantau Island now. Wikipedia has done right, as well as other names of China and Taiwan.

Intro paragraph is unreadable

The intro paragraph is unreadable. I've asked a bunch of people, from grade school kids to adults, to read this paragraph, and only two of them were able to repeat the main content. All the other languages (four of them!), and links to audio, is important, but it is way too crowded. This is broken. I'm open to suggestions on how to fix this. SchmuckyTheCat

Why? It reads "Macau, officially the Macao Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China, is one of the two special administrative regions (SARs) of the People's Republic of China (PRC)."

Compare "Germany, officially the Federal Republic of Germany, is a country in west-central Europe." Iianq 17:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Not quite. It says that, but every noun has the cantonese/traditional putonghau/simplified, and portugese translations and possibly a voice dub. Everything in parentheses needs to go somewhere else. SchmuckyTheCat

Compare with France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, or perhaps Switzerland too. Iianq 17:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

• Compare with Japan

PRC and Macau after the Portuguese MFA coup

Can anyone point to a good source explaining the PRC's reasoning behind allowing the Portugese to continue to administer Macau after the MFA coup in Portugal? Was it, for instance, to avoid undue pressure on Britain (when most of Hong Kong would, after all, revert to China anyway)?

MOS problems

There are some MOS problems with the article. Particularly with the formats of the references. It would be better if they used the cite templates. Also, there are various bolding problems. Please read WP:MOSBOLD to see what ought to be bolded and what should not be bolded. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 04:50, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Episcopal see

According to my reading of a poor reproduction scan of Macau, Illustrations of China and Its People, John Thomson (London,1873-1874), Macao was made into a see by pope Gregory III in 1580. However, it appears that unless there are other Gregory IIIs, the pope in question ought to have been Gregory XIII. Would anyone have any further info in this regard? Ohconfucius 04:09, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

GA review

I'm going to put this article on hold until the following have been address:

Name

• "The gale miraculously ceased" - POV, try and find Y ref. added about Matsu rm "miraculously".

Legislative body

• Note 17 should be after a punctuatio mark, per WP:FOOT Y Done

Folk religion

• In the middle paragraph, why is "and" enbolded? Y Done

Events & Festivals

• This is just a personal preference, but surely it should be "and" instead of "&". Also, "Festival" should be with a lower case "F" as per WP:MoS. Y Done
• "the biggest tournament of the year in Macau is the Macau Formula 3 Grand Prix in November". Again, a preference of WP:MOTOR and myself is that Formula Three are spelt as the world, not the number - It just looks better IMO. Also, on thing you could do is make a comparison of the F3 circuit with another street circuit, there are many you could use but the Circuit de Monaco would be a good choice, IMO. Y Done
• At the moment, I'm a little "dry" on suggestions sorry. But one thing I could suggest is looking at other FA articles as examples, such as Australia.

Plans for the Future

• This isn't really a section in the article, just a few things you could do if you wish to improve the article to FA.:
  • In the Politics section, why are there two links to the Politics of Macau article via the {{Mainarticle}} template? Y Done (i.e. repetitive links removed)
  • Keeping with the Politics section, I strongly suggest that the "Introduction" header gets taken away as the first paragraph to any new section should be an introduction IMO. Y Done

Anyway, apart from the "Plans for the Future" section, please can you see the concerns I've addressed and I'd be happy to pass this article as a Good Article. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 09:55, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as you addressed all my concerns, I will now pass this article. Good luck with improving the article to FA status! Remember to rate my GA review, see my signature - Thank you. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 09:33, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

There are also some things that should not be bolded. Per WP:MOSBOLD, only table headers, definition lists, and volume numbers in some formats for bibliographic entries for journal articles should be bolded. Here are the texts that need to be unbolded:

1. Sino-Portuguese Joint Declaration on the Question of Macau Y Done
2. one country, two systems Y Done
3. Civic and Municipal Affairs Bureau Y Done
4. Secretariat for Administration and Justice Y Done
5. City of Dreams Y Done

Also in the References section, there are several references that read "refer to such and such". I don't know if this conforms to WP:MOS. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

A few more comments for the GA review. Even though Macau is not a country, I suggest comparing this article to FA country articles like Australia, Japan, and Cameroon to see what needs to be improved. I've only done a high level review, but several things are apparent to me:

• The lead does not provide a adequate overview of the article as required by WP:LEAD Y Done
• The article has far too many subsection headers, resulting in the table of contents being overwhelming long.Y Done
• The International rankings and Miscellaneous topics sections should be removed and any notable information merged into the other sections of the article. Partly done
• Religion details probably belong in Demographics rather than Culture as per country articles.Y Done
• The Culture section contains nothing about cuisine, sport, film, tv, radio, music, etc. Y Done
• The Transportation section provides far too much detail. Y Done
• The Legal system and judiciary section contains too much detail and should probably be merged into Government and politics.

(Caniago 13:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC))

It will surely re-arrange and improve them very soonest for upgrading from GA to FA standard .70.54.9.155 16:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Some of these issues may not stop the article being awarded GA status, but things like the inadequate lead and the missing details regarding culture in my opinion need to be fixed before it is promoted. (Caniago 10:23, 1 June 2007 (UTC))Y Done

it takes time to sit down and figure out how to do it. For the part of culture, mostly you can find out from the topic of Culture of Macau. 70.54.9.155 14:59, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

GA Pass

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Epbr123 14:39, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Hospitals in Macau

I have tried to add a link to the Wikipedia page "List of Hospitals in Macau". For some reason it seems not to be coming up !

Professorial —Preceding unsigned comment added by Professorial (talk • contribs) 19:50, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

English dialect

Why was this article changed from American English to Queen's English? Macao doesn't have an official form of English, but street and academic English is usually American unless dealing with HKers. SchmuckyTheCat

It doesn't matter indeed. You may change any word from British English to American English, but please make sure that the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: flavour (B) (American: flavor), honour (B) (American: honor), harbour (B) (American: harbor), neighbor (A) (British: neighbour), meter (A) (British: metre), metre (B) (American: meter), defense (A) (British: defence), defence (B) (American: defense), recognize (A) (British: recognise), ization (A) (British: isation), isation (B) (American: ization), programme (B) (American: program ). Coloane 08:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Minor edits

I made some minor edits in order to remove elements of anti-west propaganda which are typical of every single-party, authoritarian, formerly-communist central governements, but are not appreciated in truly encyclopedic articles. ("Occupied by", "obtained by bribing" are not neither accurate nor neutral descriptions of the historical events related with the Portuguese) Pularoid (talk) 13:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Your comments are appreciated. But it escapes me as of why "occupied by" and "obtained by bribing" are not accurate nor neutral. For me "occupied by" and "administered" is just a matter of taste. But I have two independent sources that support the "bribing" fact. One is the book by Fung published by Joint Publishing (H.K.) Co., Ltd (an independent H.K. publisher). The other is the Macau Encyclopedia published by the Macau Foundation (in October 1999 under the Portuguese administration). It might not be the truth, but it's certainly verifiable. Josuechan (talk) 13:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Dress Appearances

As I was just wondering, Did The Brutal Queue order had any effect on Mancau Han Chinese at the time when the Qing emperors came into power in 1644, many years after the Portuguese control of Mancau itself? I'm just curoius or wondoring myself, since I got to shortly before got to notice that, compare to Hong Kong. But otherwise, what effect did the Portuguese had on Han Chinese Hairdos and Clothing in Macau? And also, they don't menthion about this on the Mancau article and history of mancau article and such. So please answer me if you please.-Jana —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.68.73.116 (talk) 22:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Awkward third paragraph placement

It seems that the third paragraph would be a much better fit in either the Politics or Economy section, rather than in the initial section. Can someone check this and change it if you agree, and if I am mistaken, please explain why it belongs where it is so that I can better understand. Thank you, Baadcatj (talk) 06:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I moved it. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

Did the China-Macau border move?

Wondering if anyone can tell me if this border today at a different location from the one prior to handover in 1999 ie. it has moved a couple of metres north of the Portas do Cerco? Looking at old photos, the border seemed to have been exactly at the Portas do Cerco but today, the Macau immigration building is on the other side of the gate in what looked like Chinese territory prior to 1999. Am I correct? Slleong (talk) 17:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Most borders have functional buildings that may be on one or both sides or even straddling the "line". In Macau, since the "border" is domestic it isn't considered important where specific buildings are. PRC laws apply on both sides and they'll just deal with any troubled situation without regard to which "side" has specific jurisdiction. The placement of border control buildings does not reflect where the line in the dirt actually is.SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

Point taken and I certainly realise this. My question is what you would call academic. I am keen to know where the line in the dirt actually is, whether the original pre-1999 border was at the Portas do Cerco or beyond where the new frontier checkpoint buildings is now. The People's Daily internet edition story on Monday, December 20, 1999, entitled "China: New Map Delineates Macao SAR Boundary Line" made me even more confused: "The northern boundary line of the Macao SAR connects with Gongbei Road of Zhuhai City in Guangdong Province. The area to the south of the arched door of Guanzha belongs to the Macao SAR, while the area to the north of the arched door of Guanzha up to the old flag building at the Zhuhai frontier checkpoint will remain the same as before." What does "remain the same as before" mean? Anyway, the borders between the mainland and its two special administrative regions are virtually international boundaries - passport checks, security controls, Chinese citizens do not have free movement across the border etc. Slleong (talk) 05:58, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Macau and other parts of southern China in the Dutch Empire

Hello everyone! There is a discussion at Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map, because user Red4tribe has made a map of the Dutch Empire (Image:Dutch Empire 4.png) that includes Macau and other parts of southern China. Would you like to comment? Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 15:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

New Map(does not include macau) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dutch_Empire_new.PNG http://www.colonialvoyage.com/ square=tradingpost (Red4tribe (talk) 16:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC))

Still OR, POV and unsourced (yours is not not a credible source). Please discuss stuff at Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map. This was just a request for comment, not a discussion. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 16:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

http://www.colonialvoyage.com/
http://www.colonialvoyage.com/biblioDAfrica.html (credible source) (Red4tribe (talk) 16:51, 26 April 2008 (UTC))

WWII in Macao

This is quite an interesting period in Macao and maybe you could write about it. I don't have the sources, but I am aware of the fact that Portugal remained neutral during the WWII and so its colonies. Japan has respected it to a certain degree. There were few bombing raids on Macao though. Also, there was a huge influx of chinese from mainland to seek refuge in Macao. Food shortages and overpopulation led to many people starving (50-100 each day!). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.50.22.194 (talk) 07:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Images and photography offer

I am going to be in HK and Macau for the next 8 days, if any regular editors of this article would like anything specifically photographed for this or other articles, please let me know on my talkpage and I'll try and accomodate requests. Mfield (talk) 17:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC) This place has a population of 17,310(KM2) WOW its like another new york i wish I lived here that would be so cool wouldn't it? I know. B4N(bye4now) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.105.243.14 (talk) 00:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Page Display Issues

On a widescreen monitor this page has display issues. The text goes all the way across the screen in such a way that the images flow off of their sections and heavily bunch up. For reference I am using 1920x1200 and this issue does not go away until I shrink the page width to be less than 1024x768 resolution (in width). I don't know wiki syntax well enough but this should have some spacers added to the text such that the images can not completely flow off the page. (I should also add that the images heavily overlap the right side of the weather infobox.) Ergzay (talk) 23:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Can I suggest that we merge the article Historic Centre of Macau into this page? At the moment that article contains very little material and it seems to me that any attempt to expand it would just be reiterating the material in this article. The merger could be done along the lines of the article for Prague which is another major city with a UNESCO listed historic centre. I honestly see know reason for Historic Centre of Macau to exist as a separate article to Macau. Mutt (talk) 05:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Oppose this. There's too much topic-specific content in the Historic Centre of Macau to merge into this already long article. --Oakshade (talk) 03:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

No way, this is a bad idea. Historic Centre should be expanded. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

• strong disagree to merge Ijanderson977 (talk) 21:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

• Disagree , two things ... Hoising (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:55, 4 April 2009 (UTC).

Foreign workers in Macau still has a large presence?

This is not updated, since late 2008 the number of foreign workers in Macau is almost non existent because of the unwise decision making of the Macau S.A.R government to combat it's fictional fear on recession and it's imagined job security for it's local population. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.68.114 (talk) 11:54, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Romanizations in lede

The {{zh}} template for 澳門特別行政區 gives Cantonese Yale, and the template for just 澳門 gives Jyutping. Why the inconsistency? rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 04:15, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Montage Caption

I added captions for the montage as per image source links on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Macau_montage.png

The only one I'm not sure on is "St Joseph Seminary Church" - I believe this is correct, but I'm not sure if it is more commonly known by another name (Sao Jose, with appropriate accents, would be the Portugese equivalent) and hence if there is an article to link to. Some quick searches on Sao Jose/Saint Joseph threw up nothing on wiki.

--Danny252 (talk) 20:41, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

"It is one of the wealthiest cities in the world"

This is absolutely baseless and untrue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.244.60.158 (talk) 19:54, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Introduction

Introduction is becoming quite cluttered, due to the transliterations. Why not create transliteration boxes and delete at least some of the simplified (this is Macau; traditional characters dominate) and pinyin from the introduction? 华钢琴49 (TALK) 22:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Alternate location map

I found File:Macau locator map.svg on Commons, which is currently only used on FR Wiki. It looks quite appealing; should this be used here? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 03:09, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Seems better, follow the 2008 color conventions. 122.117.35.27 (talk) 17:37, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Percentage of Lusophones

How many people speak portuguese, not "at home" but are able to communicate in portuguese fluenty and or effectively? Are there lusophone radio and tv stations? Arthurian Legend (talk) 02:16, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

According to the 2006 by-census, 2.4% of the population could speak Portuguese. Currently there is one only TV station that broadcasts in Portuguese. Josuechan (talk) 06:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

From my experience only Portuguese and Macanese can speak Portuguese language in Macau. The local chinese don't even know the streetnames in Portuguese language. Quite unusual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.50.22.194 (talk) 07:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC) I can told everyone that more that 90% population in Macao could not read the streetnames showed by Portuguese, most of them take look at the Chinese name and visitor(exclude from China) pay their attention to English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.238.154.140 (talk) 13:32, 21 August 2010 (UTC)