Talk:List of sultans of the Ottoman Empire

Interlanguage links

The interlanguage links were quite messy. Currently, three Wikipedias have separate articles for the Ottoman Dynasty and the List of Sultans of the Ottoman Empire: the Chinese, English and Turkish Wikipedias. These are two different topics, and I have thus organized the links as follows:

Ottoman Dynasty

• cs:Osmani
• el:Οθωμανική Δυναστεία
• en:Ottoman Dynasty
• es:Osmanlíes
• fr:Dynastie ottomane
• it:Dinastia ottomana
• ja:オスマン家
• la:Ottomannidae
• lv:Osmaņu dinastija
• nl:Ottomaanse dynastie
• nn:Det osmanske dynastiet
• no:Det osmanske dynastiet
• pt:Dinastia Otomana
• sv:Osmanska dynastin
• tr:Osmanlı Hanedanı
• uk:Османи
• zh:奧斯曼王朝

List of Sultans of the Ottoman Empire

• bs:Sultani Osmanlijskog carstva
• de:Liste der Sultane des Osmanischen Reichs
• en:List of Sultans of the Ottoman Empire
• eo:Listo de osmanidaj imperiestroj
• fi:Luettelo osmanien sulttaaneista
• he:סולטן עות'מאני
• hu:Oszmán szultánok listája
• hy:Օսմանյան սուլթանների ցանկ
• ka:ოსმალეთის სულთნების სია
• ko:오스만 제국의 군주
• ru:Османские султаны
• sr:Spisak sultana Osmanskog carstva
• tr:Osmanlı padişahları
• zh:奥斯曼帝国苏丹列表

I have also removed the link to the Polish Wikipedia (pl:Władcy Turcji) since it has a much broader scope than the articles in other projects: it covers all Turkish monarchs, not just the Ottomans. --BomBom (talk) 23:13, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Mehmet III

For Mehmet III in the notes column of the table it says Assassinated. I haven't seen any other source which confirms this (including other Wiki articles.) I think that this statement must be revised. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Back in 2009, I had written the above warning. No feed back since then. I cleared the word Assassinated. I'll also inform the contributor. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 09:49, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

the Grim

Selim I is "Yavuz" not "the Grim". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.248.142.88 (talk) 00:22, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

"Yavuz" means 1. stern; tough. 2. amazingly clever and capable. 3. gutsy, tough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.248.142.88 (talk) 00:28, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Abdulhamid II

Abdulhamid II is not "red sultan", only the Armenians said "red sultan" to Abdulhamid II. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.248.142.88 (talk) 00:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

removing bold face phrases

The use of bold face to highlight certain phrases is not an allowed in the Manual of Style (text formatting). Personally I find that the use of bold faced text makes the text cluttered. I am removing it. --İnfoCan (talk) 20:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

File:OttomanEmpireIn1683.png Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:OttomanEmpireIn1683.png, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 11:45, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

miniature pics

are more creative, lets discuss it here. Several examples on other articles 77.166.30.3 (talk) 09:05, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Why talk about state organization

Why is there a section about state organization on this page? It only distracts from the actual point of the article, which is to provide a list of Ottoman sultans. It should be deleted. Anyone who wishes to read about state organization can do so on the relevant page. If the goal of the article is to discuss the institution of the Ottoman sultanate then such a section would indeed be relevant, but in that case the article should be renamed. Chamboz (talk) 02:45, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Article should be split: article title is confusing

This seems to be two articles at once.

There is a list of sultans of the Ottoman Empire, as the name suggests, but that comes after the article about the role of the sultan in the Ottoman Empire. I think this article should be split, leaving the actual list here, and moving the other content to Sultans in the Ottoman Empire or Turkish Sultans.

This is important because I want to link sultan in Suleiman the Magnificent to this page, but this page's name is very strange for that link; as a user I wouldn't want to follow that link, because I don't really care about the list, I want to know what the title means. And since sultan is a very broad term, it would be nice to have the more specific Ottoman Empire case to link to. nhinchey (talk) 23:48, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Also, this is a weird link for the top of Sultan:

This article is about sultans in general. For the Turkish Sultans, see List of sultans of the Ottoman Empire. For other uses, see Sultan (disambiguation).

nhinchey (talk) 23:53, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

I think we should add claimants as well

What do you think? Beshogur (talk) 21:40, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

What claimants would that be? Ichthyovenator (talk) 12:52, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

I already added them. Cem Sultan and Mustafa Çelebi. Beshogur (talk) 14:31, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh right, I was worried that the suggestion was to add the post-1922/1924 members of the House of Osman. Ichthyovenator (talk) 14:39, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

infobox

@Beshogur: I am wondering why you revert my recent edit. As I stated in edit summery, the Last monarch already covers who was the last, so rather than repeat this information twice in the same infobox, it would make sense to have something else. Something like longest as this is also a notable person. Skjoldbro (talk) 16:46, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

So he's covered with only his name on the infobox? I don't see any reason to put the longest reigning monarch. There's no problem with putting Mehmed VI on the infobox. He was the last monarch. Beshogur (talk) 17:18, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

@Beshogur: The reason it makes sense to have some one who is neither first nor last, is that this information is already covered (name, years reigning), and therefore just repeating it for no reason. Right now, it is conveying the same information twice in a matter of lines, adding no new information. And since he is already present in the infobox, it is not like he's being removed. Skjoldbro (talk) 19:09, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I still don't get what's special about picking some random sultan based on some fact (long reign, etc.) Beshogur (talk) 19:19, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

@Beshogur:I still don't get what's special about picking some random sultan based on some fact (last to reign, etc.). It works both ways. But it isn't just some "random sultan", being the longest is just as notable as first or last (maybe even more), and seeing as both first and last are already present, it would make sense to include longest. Skjoldbro (talk) 08:38, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Skjoldbro: because maybe it's last to reign? Longest reigning is pure cherry picking. Beshogur (talk) 08:49, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Beshogur:because maybe it's longest to reign? Last reigning is pure cherry picking. Skjoldbro (talk) 09:25, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Skjoldbro: It is common to pick the last monarch in cases like this, see List of Byzantine emperors, Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary, List of Bulgarian monarchs, German Emperor, King of Hanover, List of rulers of Saxony, List of rulers of Württemberg, List of monarchs of Brazil etc. Ichthyovenator (talk) 08:05, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ichthyovenator: It might be common, but is it the best? Like I have stated before, by having last, you are simply repeating information which three lines further down. What is the point of that? Tell me, what new information do you learn between the two statements of Mehmed VI? By having longest, there is actually some other and notable information presented rather than a complete repetition. Skjoldbro (talk) 08:38, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

What do you learn if you state Suleiman was the longest reigning monarch? Nothing. Perhaps we should add Selim I who gained the most territory. This isn't some fact website. Beshogur (talk) 08:50, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Beshogur, using the first/last office holder makes more sense than choosing an arbitrary point of trivia (who says longest-reigning is the best? why not most successful? most famous? etc.). I don't think the repeating of information is a big problem. Ichthyovenator (talk) 09:04, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Current repetition of information.

@Beshogur: For one, something new. You are not understanding my points. Being the longest-reigning monarch is 100% something notable, and that is something that you learn rather than the same information twice. And I'm sorry, but the only argument I see you making for keeping last reigning, is that the last reigning was the last reigning. And Wikipedia is a page for facts? I think you might have a misunderstanding of what this website is. @Ichthyovenator: longest-reigning as a common and notable statement, and not some arbitrary point of trivia. And you see no problem repeating the exact same information two lines apart? What new information sets the first lines apart from the last line? And why does it make more sense to use last, isn't that just as arbitrary? Skjoldbro (talk) 09:25, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

I never said that longest-reigning was not something notable - I am saying that it's an arbitrary choice. "Most famous" would be just as valid, as would "Ruler at greatest extent" or "Most successful" etc. - what makes longest-reigning more notable than the rest? I think "last to reign" works well (it matches up quite well with infoboxes on extant monarchies that show the incumbent monarch) - it's already used in the majority of infoboxes so I don't see why this article should be the exception.

No, I don't see the repeating of information as problematic and it's not an issue that appears to have been commented on before. Is the infobox on Tyrannosaurus problematic because it repeats the genus being called Tyrannosaurus three times? If you feel strongly about this I would recommend raising this point in a place where the discussion could center on all former monarchy infoboxes and not just the Ottoman one, so that there is wider input and whatever decision is reached is implemented consistently. Ichthyovenator (talk) 10:29, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ichthyovenator: what makes last-reigning more notable than the rest? Apart from first-last (which is already mentioned in the infobox), longest would be the most (if not more) notable, so it would make sense to also include this. "Most famous", "Ruler at greatest extent" or "Most successful" are arbitrary, as these are not quantifiable. I just don't see how "it has always been this way" or "others do this" are valid arguments. If the Tyrannosaurus had relevance or was comparable, maybe, but even then, it provides new information each time. Unlike here. Skjoldbro (talk) 12:19, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Skjoldbro: Most successful is arbitrary but I don't see how Ruler at greatest extent or most famous are. Ruler at greatest extent is a matter of checking what reliable sources say on the matter and in most cases, most famous should be pretty clear (Cleopatra is by far the most famous Pharaoh, Nicholas II is by far the most famous Russian emperor etc.). "It has always been this way" is not a valid argument in of itself, but if it has always been in a certain way it is up to you to demonstrate how your proposal is better than both the current option and the other available alternatives. I don't feel that the repeating of information is a big enough problem to overturn the long-established norm.

"Others do this" is a valid argument - in my experience we should strive for consistency. Are you proposing to change only this infobox to display the longest-reigning sultan (in that case I am very much against it on grounds of what I've said above) or are you proposing to go through multiple former monarchy infoboxes to change them as well (in that case I think this should be brought up somewhere else so that more people can chime in)? Ichthyovenator (talk) 08:27, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Coinage

Does nobody find weird that the list includes coinage? I've never seen anything like that, and honestly I don't like it very much. 201.240.116.131 (talk) 20:14, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

I added that to the list. What's the issue? Beshogur (talk) 09:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Historical Portraits

Many of the portraits by Konstantine Kapidagli are oversimplified and extremely similar. He was commissioned by Selim III to make portraits of every past sultan, and you can see that each portrait is almost identical. So they were replaced with either the Veronese portraits or simply more differentiated portraits to make each sultan seem a bit more unique and not like they are all the same person. If you dislike a particular portrait then list that here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.237.189.189 (talk) 10:54, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

How did Abdul Hamid II Reign that long?

Why does it say that he reigned until 1919 when it says he died in 1918? Was it necrocracy? 136.33.235.64 (talk) 01:47, 6 January 2024 (UTC)