Talk:Liao dynasty/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 03:21, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sven, I'll be glad to take this review. Initial comments to follow in the next 1-3 days. Thanks in advance for your work on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:21, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Initial comments

This looks very strong on the first pass--well written, well sourced, and seemingly comprehensive. I particularly appreciate your having added some social history along with the political and military history, which I think too many Wikipedia history articles lack. Thanks for all the work you, Dcattell, and others have put into this. I think it's really paid off, and while I still have some checks to do (source spotchecks, "broad aspects" check, images, etc.) this appears ripe for promotion from what I've seen so far.

I made some copyedits as I went. Please feel free to revert anything you disagree with, and check to make sure I haven't inadvertently added any error. A few small points I couldn't immediately resolve are below:

• " The Tang emperor bestowed with the Chinese surname Li on the Dahe" -- should the "with" in this sentence be cut? I'm not quite sure what this means.
• " Khitan rulers were expected to hand over power a paternal" -- the "a paternal" is confusing me here-- are there missing words?
• "normally within the preview of the emperor" -- should this be "purview"?
• "Gernet claims that" -- "claims" should probably be rewritten here per WP:WTA

On another note, I removed this link that was added by a single-purpose spam account that mass-adds IAS links across the wiki. On one or two occasions editors have told me in the past that they've found these to be useful, though, so if you'd like it to stay in the article, please feel free to re-add--it's entirely your call. -- Khazar2 (talk) 17:13, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Main aspects

Comparing the article to some sources like this [1] and this, it seems clear that the article covers the main aspects of the topic. One suggestion I might offer for future expansion is that a cursory Google search reveals a fair amount of discussion of the economy of the Liao dynasty--major industries, trading partners, etc. (This and this (under "social economy") show what I'm talking about, though I realize neither is likely to be a reliable source.) I don't think that this quite rises to a "main aspect" that would block GA status, though; Encyclopedia Britannica (above), for example, doesn't even touch on the subject. So don't worry about it for now. -- Khazar2 (talk) 17:35, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Checklist

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Some minor points need clarity (see above). Prose is very good. Will doublecheck one last time for copyediting purposes, and do spotchecks for copyright.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Very small point: "claims" should be tweaked per WP:WTA.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	File:Departure Herald-Detail.jpg, File:騎射圖.jpg, File:Song Taizu.jpg, File:Wanggiyan Aguda.jpg appear to need tags for why they're PD in the US, though I don't think any of these images will actually be a problem.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Pass

Thank you for doing this review. I have reviewed the changes you made, and while I tend to be less aggressive than you are at removing duplicate links, I don't see a problem with any of your edits. I have addressed the four bullet pointed items above, restored the lecture link (which I might even incorporate into a source at a later date, and fixed the images.

I do wish that I could add some content on the economy. Unfortunately, I have found very limited success in finding reliable source coverage on the economy. There is some decent coverage in Wittfogel and Feng, but as a scholar I have serious reservations about basing a section entirely on a single source, especially a source that is, at this point, sixty years old. If I can track down a second source that confirms and updates Wittfogel and Feng on economic aspects of the dynasty, I'll put it in.

I hope I've satisfied your concerns. Sven Manguard Wha? 21:39, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for checking back. This is the fix to the one point in 1a. that you didn't scratch, and as far as I know, I fixed 6 too. Sven Manguard Wha? 02:52, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Thanks for your quick responses! That does just about cover it. I may be misreading, but there appears to still be one more word missing in the sentence "Khitan rulers were expected to hand over power a paternal relative after serving a single three-year term"-- should this be "to a paternal relative", I'm guessing? I think that's all that's left here. -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:55, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Yep. Facepalm . Sven Manguard Wha? 03:00, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll give this one a second readthrough tomorrow (when I don't have beer in me, as I do now) to make sure nothing else is missing on the copyediting front, but barring unforeseen catastrophe, this will be promoted in the next 24-48 hours. I really appreciate your work on this. So much of what comes through GA is on useful but very minor topics (I've written some of these myself), and it's always great to see an article like this that takes a major historical topic and covers it thoroughly. It certainly puts the Encyclopedia Britannica version I linked above to shame. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:08, 24 March 2013 (UTC)