Talk:Juukan Gorge

Australia: Western Australia / Indigenous peoples Mid‑importance

	Australia portal Juukan Gorge is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Western Australia (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Indigenous peoples of Australia (assessed as Mid-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia, or the State Library of Western Australia.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

Archaeology Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Archaeology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Archaeology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchaeologyWikipedia:WikiProject ArchaeologyTemplate:WikiProject ArchaeologyArchaeology
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mining Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mining, a collaborative project to organize and improve articles related to mining and mineral industries. If you would like to participate, you can edit the attached article, or visit the project page, where you can see a list of open tasks, join in the discussion, or join the project.MiningWikipedia:WikiProject MiningTemplate:WikiProject MiningMining
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Cave: destroyed or not?

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The only photos showing up at a Google search, the shelters (the grottoes under a rock ledge, if I interpret correctly what I'm seeing, because there's no explanation in the captions) are still there. What's gone is the mildly sloping hill above them. Which should never happen with a major heritage site, where the immediate environment is essential to the understanding of the site and also to its visual impact. But that's not the point. Did I misunderstand what the photos are showing? If yes, it's not my fault. Especially in politically charged situations, precise information is essential. On WP it should be detailed as well as concise, and if possible illustrated with pictures. It isn't, and the endless text w/o a structure (paragraphs with meaningful headings) make it useless to the user, who usually doesn't have the time to study the text like a lawyer does with a law or a researcher with unprocessed experimental data.

What HAS been destroyed? What has been documented beforehand, maybe even saved and is in archaeological storage or museum displays? What's the talk of Rio Tinto "restoring the shelters" - using what, cardboard or cement? Are there 3D computer scans and photos of destroyed shelters, if indeed there are any destroyed shelters, and of rock art there? That's what needs to be documented here, anything else is regurgitating useless journalistic superficial products. I don't give a damn about Jacques, and nobody will remember his name pretty soon, but I do care to know what was there, what's gone, and what scientific documentation of it we've got left. Arminden (talk) 10:23, 9 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

You are probably referring to photos like these, https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/24/rio-tinto-chiefs-lose-millions-in-bonuses-over-destruction-of-juukan-gorge ? The pictures are both taken before the blast. The second image is showing some destruction, but it's apparently only in preparation of the actual blast.

To my knowledge nobody has ever released images showing how the site did look after the blast. I do very much agree that there is some lack of information, about the size/shape of the cave before the explosion, and about its remains (if any). --2OO.3OO.2OO.3OO (talk) 14:38, 24 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Updates and questions

Latest comment: 5 months ago2 comments1 person in discussion

I have a couple of questions: 1. I don't think the caves were sacred. There was no evidence of rituals/ceremonies there. As written in 'The Conversation' in July 2024 (link here https://theconversation.com/the-first-published-results-from-juukan-gorge-show-47-000-years-of-aboriginal-heritage-was-destroyed-in-mining-blast-234806) they were ancient. Furthermore the PKKP (traditional owners) didn't formally object until it was too late (see the Registrar witness statement on the Senate Inquiry). 2. The laws were repelled after a huge backlash (this was in the context of the referendum on the Voice). In short, nothing has changed. 3. WP should be factual. I feel that this article is too emotional and indulges in a bit of activism. I'll try to amend AnitaLaFrancaise (talk) 07:54, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

I don't understand why Rio Tinto & ex CEO Jacques took all the blame when the blast was legal, no objections were made until it was too late and the laws haven't changed (the 2021 law was repealed). AnitaLaFrancaise (talk) 08:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Add topic