Talk:India pale ale

Article title

"India pale ale", not being a brand name or other type of proper noun, should be sentence case. While there is a widespread belief in Wikipedia and elsewhere that terms with capitalized acronyms should be presented in title case, this is not true (see for example this Economist article), and is against Wikipedia policy (Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Acronyms). WolfmanSF (talk) 07:10, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 11 April 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 18:42, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

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India Pale Ale → India pale ale – not a proper noun, and thus should be sentence case, despite the capitalized acronym, as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Acronyms WolfmanSF (talk) 07:24, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

WolfmanSF Titles that came to mind are: India pale ale (IPA) or IPA (India pale ale).

I am guessing that the capitalisation of the India Pale Ale come in response that many people know the subject as IPA and I think that, while India pale ale may be more grammatically correct, for some I think it may be less recognisable.

IPA ("Greene King" OR "Charles Wells" OR beer) gets "About 33,000,000 results"

India Pale Ale ("Greene King" OR "Charles Wells" OR beer) gets "About 1,300,000 results"

IPA ("Greene King" OR "Charles Wells" OR beer) gets "About 17,000 results" in books

India Pale Ale ("Greene King" OR "Charles Wells" OR beer) gets "About 15,700 results" in books.

GregKaye 10:58, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't know of any other article in which an acronym is included in the title. Do you? We have to follow standard Wikipedia practice. WolfmanSF (talk) 20:37, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

WolfmanSF the fifth in the list of WP:CRITERIA in the guidelines at WP:AT is consistency. After seeing the general search results I was surprised at how close the books results were. I just think that people are more familiar with IPA. I reluctantly support the RM on the basis of good grammar think other options can work. GregKaye 21:35, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

• Support only as proposed. "Pale" has no reason whatsoever to be capitalized while poor "ale" sits there in sentence case. Red Slash 20:39, 12 April 2015 (UTC) It's a common noun. (Of course, "India" should still be capitalized in running text.) Red Slash 21:03, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
• Support the title without capital letters (Wikipedia:Manual of Style). Vlādis Mānisqā (talk) 06:20, 14 April 2015 (UTC).
• Support. Not a proper noun. kennethaw88 • talk 04:08, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

History of IPAs in North America

It would be nice to have some specific information about the history of IPAs in America.

According to a story at http://coolmaterial.com/food-drink/the-story-of-anchor-liberty-ale-the-beer-that-started-the-craft-revolution/ called "The Story of Anchor Liberty Ale: The Beer that Started the Craft Revolution" Anchor Liberty beer was first brewed by the Anchor Brewing Company in 1975 and is thought to be the first American "Pale Ale." The article states "Michael Jackson, the famed beer writer, called Anchor Liberty Ale the first modern American ale, and its introduction set in motion the craft beer tidal wave that would slowly build over the next few decades."

What might be considered the first modern IPA in the US is Bridgeport IPA, first brewed in 1996 by Bridgeport Brewing of Portland, Oregon. It originated shortly after Bridgeport was acquired by Gambrinus in 1995, a Texas company that owns Shiner Beers. It may not be considered a "Portland" or "West Coast" style of beer since the Gambrinus company was trying to disassociate itself from that localization as part of their marketing strategy. An Australian brewmaster named Phil Sexton created the recipe for the beer. At http://ballantinebeer.com/ it says that they began brewing Ballantine India Pale Ale at their plant in Newark, NJ in 1878. "Ballantine India Pale Ale was brewed and marketed until the mid-1990s, having been brewed by Falstaff - which bought the Ballantine labels in 1972" (quotation from AugustusRex) https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/history-of-the-american-ipa.354879/ I will do some more research on this and report back. Saxonjs (talk) 04:16, 21 August 2016 (UTC)John Saxon - a dedicated drinker of IPA

A. W. Palmer & Co.

Presumably not the Palmers of Bridport who are "J. C. & R. H. Palmer Ltd"? But which? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:24, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

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evolution? of the name

I don't know if anybody wants to go anywhere with this but I thought I'd throw it out: have you noticed that more and more commentators, and even some breweries, are now calling it Indian Pale Ale? And some of those commentators appear to think that it originated in America!HenryLarsen (talk) 05:53, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:IPA (disambiguation) which relates to this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. Nardog (talk) 02:45, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Price of beer in England in 1830s.

The quoted price must be very wrong. The closest I can get is a halfpenny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.194.55.5 (talk) 12:32, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

At no point in the 19th century did any beer - even the weakest Table Beer - cost a hlfpenny a pint. The weakest beer cost around 1d per pint wholesale.Patto1ro (talk) 09:30, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

References

What to Do About Advertisements?

It appears that some brewers may be adding examples of their IPAs to the article page via pictures and some sentences sprinkled about the page. While there are some mentioned, such as Bell's Two-Hearted Ale and Russian River's Pliny the Elder, those refer to how examples of award-winning IPAs. Besides the obvious Wikipedia:Self promotion guidelines, should we regularly rotate images of example IPAs? Or should we add IPA images to the bottom of the page in a gallery tab? Theoldkinderhook (talk) 03:12, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I added the images of Brewdog and Dogfish head beers and I can assure you I do not represent the breweries or have any conflict of interest. They are simply good quality images which represent the subject of the article. I also added content about Worthington White Shield and Ballentine's IPA which are notable for being possibly the only existing 19th century IPAs. Again, I have no conflict of interest with regard to any brewery or product. I think your suggestion of an image gallery is a good idea if you can find good quality images.Tammbeck^Talk 06:26, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Low importance but due to the controversy surrounding Brewdog and their ex-CEO James Watt, I would propose changing the image to a different brewery. I take your statements in absolutely good faith, but based on their past marketing strategy, my first thought when I opened the page was "I bet their marketing team put that image there". PutTheKettleOn (talk) 09:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@PutTheKettleOn. Go ahead and change it if you can find something better. The Brewdog image has been there for four years so maybe it's about time... Tammbeck^talk 11:32, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@Theoldkinderhook. While I am assuming good faith, it may be useful to clarify whether you have a potential conflict of interest regarding your edits here and at Bell's Brewery. It is curious that you find it notable that Bell's "Two-Hearted Ale" was placed second in an unspecified beer award.Tammbeck^Talk 06:27, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

@Tammbeck I was more referring to how the top image in IPA had the country designation as Scotland rather than England/United Kingdom as it has in the past. I assumed the editor who changed that believed that the information underneath was for that specific beer, rather than the IPA style itself. I more or less brought this up mainly due to how the beer image has changed fairly regularly in recent memory. As for any potential biases on my account, I assure you I have no relation to Bell's Brewery, and the "second place" refers to the American Homebrewers Association "Best Beer In America" award where Two-Hearted Ale frequently competes with Pliny the Elder for the top spot. Theoldkinderhook (talk) 07:45, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Anglo-centric lead

The article's lead as it stands fails to mention the central roll of American craft brewers in popularising the IPA beer style worldwide. As such I believe it doesn't adequately summarise the article's most important points per WP:MOSLEAD. I propose restoring the content deleted by Haldraper in this edit if there is a consensus for this.Tammbeck^Talk 08:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I've expanded the lead a bit. I don't think it should be Anglo- or American- centric (as the previous version was verging towards). IPA was popularised worldwide in the nineteenth century. The later development of it in the US is covered extensively in the body. That ref doesn't look very reliable per WP:Source. Haldraper (talk) 09:44, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@Haldraper. If you're talking about the "Caroline Shenton" ref, that relates to a different thread and was not added by me. There is no shortage of reliable sources that modern IPAs worldwide were inspired by US craft brewers. This takes nothing away from the style's British origins, and I think the lead should reflect both the history and current situation of IPAs. On the other hand, I'm not making a big deal of this and if no other editors agree then the lead will stay as it is. Tammbeck^Talk 10:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Quadruple IPA

At least the Danish brewery To Øl markets a Quadruple IPA. Should this be mentioned? JIP | Talk 02:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

There are several hype breweries in the UK that push out a QIPAs every year. Mental beer but worth a mention as they do exist. PutTheKettleOn (talk) 09:50, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Several breweries put out a beer they market as a quadruple IPA, but this is merely a marketing term and there is no consensus that quadruple IPAs are anything distinct. Already, when it comes to triple IPAs, there is a problem that the extreme maltiness and ABV of the beer makes it indistinguishable from an American barleywine. Thus, the idea of a quadruple IPA seems like a marketing gimmick, rather than something that can be achieved as a distinguishable style of beer that has any prayer of being recognized by the Brewers Association, much less the BJPC.

By the way, the triple IPA category description is sparse, and probably should be enhanced in my opinion to give more history and explanation. The triple IPA category was also pioneered by Vinnie Cilurzo, with Russian RIver's Pliny the Younger, to my immediate knowledge, but this bears more research to verify this. BlueorBlackInk (talk) 06:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

India as a Main Category

Its fascinating to me that IPAs are named after India but the country and its IPA consumption habits are not included in the page Dude7291 (talk) 20:47, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Do you mean historically? Despite the prodigious amounts of IPA being sent to British officers and bureaucrats in India during the colonial period, this was absolutely dwarfed by the amount of porter being shipped over. If I recall correctly, this was noted in Mitch Steele's IPA book, and also by beer historian Ron Pattinson.

If you mean today, it seems that India's IPA consumption habits are so small that they are barely noted. Would you want to include this as a curiosity? The country a beer style is named after does not care for it? That could be interesting. BlueorBlackInk (talk) 06:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Promote to Top importance?

If pages like Lambic, Saison (ale), Stout, and Brown ale are all , shouldn't this one be, too? IPAs are certainly as, if not more, prominent than those other styles. Driftybiscuit (talk) 22:35, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

If there are no objections I think you should just go ahead and change it. I would agree with what you're saying. Tammbeck^talk 09:28, 21 March 2024 (UTC)