Talk:Howard County Public School System

Fair use rationale for Image:Hcpss.jpg

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BetacommandBot 02:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Information table

I have added back the information table. I have removed the contact details, which were directory stuff, but the rest consists of useful, encyclopaedic facts and is quite normal fare for school district pages. It should also be noted that we merge nn schools to the district and thus including basic details on those schools is a reasonable merge compromise. TerriersFan (talk) 23:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

TerriersFan, according to WP:EL, "External links should not normally be used in the body of an article; this applies to list articles as well." I'll remove the links. PhilKnight (talk) 00:22, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

AP Scores

I read the initial introduction paragraph to the article and found the note about AP scores to be a bit misleading. Currently, it states, "It gets high percentages at all levels of the Maryland School Assessments,[1] and is second only to Montgomery County in percentage of seniors scoring well on Advanced Placement exams.[2] Forbes magazine rated Howard County as one of the ten most cost-efficient school systems in the USA.[3]"

The major issue is the Baltimore Sun article states, "in Howard, nearly one in three passed", then states "in Montgomery, 46 percent of last year's graduates had gotten a score of 3 or better on at least one AP exam - a countywide average that beat all but a few of the schools in the Baltimore region". The problem with this comparison is that it's a misnomer, one can't compare a supposed proportion to a percentage. The proportion used in the article is not defined and not referenced in the article.

If one is looking for a statistic to define Howard County schools, then they should go to http://www.real-estate-columbia.com/schools.shtml and http://www.homes-mont-county-md.com/SAT.shtml. The former lists the SAT scores of all Howard County schools, while the latter lists the scores for all Montgomery County schools. Doing a quick average of the values, we find that Mo. Co. scores an average SAT score for all its high schools of 1075, 24,727/23; while Ho. Co. scores an average SAT score for all of its high schools of 1087, 11966/11.

Mrminux (talk) 14:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/03/AR2008090301602.html goes on to show that Howard County beat, on average, Montgomery County by 25 points, in terms of SAT scores, ranking it the highest in the state of Maryland.

Mrminux (talk) 14:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the blurb about the AP scores. See my earlier points for discussion.

Mrminux (talk) 17:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

The headquarters of the school district are in Columbia, Maryland, NOT Ellicott City!

I am very disappointed that I have to do this. A drive-by edit in May has left an inaccuracy on the page. So let me explain:

• The headquarters of the school district are in Columbia, Maryland, NOT Ellicott City!

The article must state that the headquarters is physically in Columbia CDP with an Ellicott City mailing address.

Here is how and why:

• The headquarters address is "10910 Clarksville Pike (Route 108) Ellicott City, MD 21042" - This means the headquarters has an "Ellicott City, MD" mailing address but it does not mean it is in the U.S.-government defined Ellicott City, Maryland census-designated place, which is the Wikipedia definition of "Ellicott City, Maryland". The important part of the mailing address is the 10910 Clarksville Pike (Route 108) 21042 because that allows you to check the physical location of the headquarters.
• Check this U.S. Census Bureau map of Columbia, Maryland (Archive) -- This is proof
• If a newspaper says "Ellicott City-based" remember the newspaper is doing things the simple way and going off the mailing address. While Wikipedia relies on secondary sources, a simplified newspaper location does not trump the actual data from the U.S. Census Bureau!

There is precedence for this. See: Talk:ENSCO,_Inc.#Regarding the address and location of this company, and I have also confirmed on the Original research noticeboard that it's okay to use US Census Bureau maps to show the real location. Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard/Archive_14#Using_maps_to_determine_locations

If an editor changes "Columbia, MD" to "Ellicott City, MD" - Please: revert and notify the editor immediately of her/his mistake! It is important to educate the public about this matter. If an administrator from HCPSS says until she/he is blue in the face that the HQ is not in Columbia, this administrator is not correct. Show her/him the maps.

Thank you, WhisperToMe (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I have just learned about the 2012 noticeboard discussion Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_138#Use_of_Census-Designated_Places_as_geographical_authorities. User:Mangoe said:

"truly definitive boundaries for any community are impossible—except in the case of Columbia, because its boundaries are generally bounded by what land the Columbia Association controls through covenants. The Columbia CDP is much larger than that area, and incorporates large areas which anyone who actually lives there never considered part of Columbia (e.g. they simply ignore the town of Clarksville, Maryland and assign all of that area to Columbia). This has led to a lot of implication, particularly in the article on the town itself, that various things are in the town of Columbia proper when they actually are not." and "I would like to see this use of the CDP maps deprecated."

One other editor, User:TimidGuy, agreed.

The main problem: Wikipedia uses the CDPs as the very definition of various unincorporated communities. The census data is based on the CDPs. The maps posted in these articles are based on the CDPs, etc. This has been true since User:Rambot mass-created the articles back in 2003 or so. If the CDP maps are not reliable, all of the other data from the U.S. Census is unreliable too. This cannot be the case.

As I have stated in Talk:ENSCO,_Inc.#Regarding the address and location of this company: If there is a difference between the CDP understanding and the local understanding, this needs to be made clear and documented with reliable sources. The ultimate consensus emerged that if multiple sources differ regarding the location of something, it needs to be hashed out and clarified with the various definitions considered.

In this case, the school district HQ may not be within the Columbia Association's definition of Columbia, but it is within the U.S. federal government's definition of the Columbia, Maryland census designated place. The CDP map is certainly a reliable source to say exactly that this HQ is within the Columbia, Maryland census designated place. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:37, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

The issue remains that the Wikipedia appeal to the CDP boundaries as an authority is not what most people accept; hardly anyone knows that the CDP boundaries don't have much to do with people's intuited geography, or even that the census makes such designations. In this case we have at least three authorities: the CA covenants (I believe no), the USPS (no), and the CDP (yes). If you actually drive down 108, the obvious answer is "on the outskirts of Columbia" since you see the offices on one side of the road and signs for Columbia entrances on the other. If you have to say that it's "in" someplace, Columbia is a better answer than Ellicott City, but it's still a misleading answer. Mangoe (talk) 21:37, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

One of the issues too is verifiability. Do publications write down how locals define where a place is or what its boundaries are? In Third Ward, Houston#Boundaries I cited a book that discusses the boundaries of Houston neighborhood and how fluid they are.

As for the USPS city name, I wonder if, for that particular ZIP code, it is acceptable to write "Columbia, MD" instead of "Ellicott City, MD". Some "city names" of certain ZIP codes are interchangeable. In Talk:Centennial_Airport#The_way_to_settle_the_map_location_dispute:_US_census_bureau_maps one Wikipedian talked about how any address in 80112 can be written as “Englewood, CO 80112”, “Centennial, CO 80012” or “Greenwood Village, CO 80112".

WhisperToMe (talk) 20:58, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Why was the entire page deleted?!

Is this a prank? There is such important historical information on this subject. Bring it back! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.35.162 (talk) 13:42, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Some proposed changes

    Information to be added or removed: 

1960s

In 1962, Senator Frank E. Shipley bypassed the state school board nominating commission recommendation of Fred Schoenbrodt, and installed Clifford Y. Stephens after he agreed to Senator Shipley's request that he serve on the board.[38] The school board proposes an ambitious $3 million expansion of Howard High, and administration buildings funded by a 6% increase in property taxes for anticipated growth.[39] In October 1963, High's of Baltimore, Inc., was indicted for fixing milk prices. At a hearing on the matter, High's of Baltimore, Inc., was represented by vice-president C.Y. Stephens and Secretary-Treasurer Clyde Shugart, Mr. Stephens and Mr. Shugart were not named as having been indicted personally. It is unknown whether the action was civil or criminal in nature. The outcome of this indictment is also unknown; there is no evidence that High's of Baltimore, Inc., was found guilty or not guilty of price-fixing, nor if there was a plea arrangement, nor if any penalty was ever assessed. Mr. Stephens dies soon after in an automobile crash in November 1963.[40][41]

   Explanation of issue: 

This article states that C.Y. Stephens was indicted for price fixing of milk, citing an article in the Baltimore Sun which alleges that Wilton Farms and 7 other dairies were involved in price fixing. It appears from the article that certain dairies were indicted for price fixing, but does not state that any individuals were indicted. It may be inferred from Sun article that High's of Baltimore, Inc., was one of the indicted dairies, and that C.Y. Stephens, vice-president and Clyde Shugart, secretary-treasurer, appeared on behalf of the corporation High's of Baltimore, Inc., but the statement that Mr. Stephens was personally indicted is not supported in any way by the Sun article. It is thus completely wrong to state in the Wikipedia article that Mr. Stephens was indicted, when there is no support for this statement. Mr. Stephens and Mr. Shugart were corporate officers appearing on behalf of the indicted corporation and nothing more. In addition, the Sun article does not say whether the action was a civil or a criminal matter, nor does it state what the outcome of the indictment was. No reference is made to any further court proceedings. For all the author knows, the indictment may have been dismissed for lack of evidence or some other reasonable cause.

I am Mr. Stephens son. I was alive and 13 years old in October 1963. I would have known if my father had been indicted personally, because my mother would have reacted very strongly and fearfully had my father been facing criminal charges. My mother died in January 2000 and is unavailable for comment. I have discussed this issue with my sister, who was 25 in October 1963, and she states that my father was never personally indicted, as the Wikipedia article alleges. In addition, my father was influential in getting government regulations rescinded which fixed milk prices at artificially high levels; he testified before at least one state legislature in an effort to remove such regulations, and was successful in getting those regulations removed.

In short, accusing someone of criminal charges is highly inflammatory and insulting to the memory of that person, especially when that person cannot appear to defend himself. It is also highly disturbing to members of his family who still survive. Basing such a charge on an extremely vague newspaper article is inadequate support to make such an allegation, when the best evidence of such an indictment is missing - a link to the actual indictment, not a reporters interpretation of that indictment - and failing to provide information on whether the corporation so indicted was ultimately found non-guilty or guilty, is irresponsible reporting which should not be permitted to remain on Wikipedia.

The Wikipedia article wrongly states that C.Y. Stephens was indicted, when the Sun article clearly states that High's of Baltimore, Inc. was the indicted party, nd not any individuals. The Wikipedia article is also substantially incomplete because it fails to provide significant facts about the outcome of such charges.

As such, I request that the author remove the language stating that C.Y. Stephens was indicted. The author may infer that High's of Baltimore, Inc. was indicted, but should also state that there is no evidence of the outcome of the indictment, and should also state that High's of Baltimore, Inc., may have been found not-guilty of the charge. I also request that the statement be modified in any other Wikipedia articles the author may have written making the same unfounded and unsupported allegation.

While Wikipedia has rules concerning conflicts of interest, I believe that my analysis of the author's erroneous statement about C.Y. Stephens is correct from a reasonable and objective analysis, and therefore should be honored. The Sun article simply does not support the allegation made by the author.

   References supporting change: Personal knowledge of persons living at the time and interviewed by Jeffrey Stephens.

JStephs1950 (talk) 21:47, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Jeffrey Stephens JStephs1950 (talk) 06:37, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

References

Reply 09-JUN-2019

  Unable to review edit request  
Your edit request could not be reviewed because the request is not formatted correctly.

1. The citation style predominantly used by the Howard County Public School System article appears to be Citation Style 1. The citation style used in the edit request consists of bare URL's. Any requested edit of yours which may be implemented will need to resemble the current style already in use in the article – in this case, CS1. (See WP:CITEVAR.)
2. The requested prose suggests that it is unknown whether the claims involving this court case were civil or criminal in nature. Price fixing in 1963, as it still is today, is prosecuted as a criminal violation under the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890.
3. Citation ref tags have not been placed within the requested text indicating which portions of the text the source is referencing. (See WP:INTEGRITY.)

In the collapsed section below titled Request edit examples, I have illustrated two: The first shows how the edit request was submitted; the second shows how requests should be submitted in the future.

Request edit examples

INCORRECT The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles, while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles.[2] The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin. https://www.booksource.com https://www.journalsource.com https://www.websource.com In the example above there are three URL's provided with the claim statements, but these URL's have not been placed using Citation Style 1, which is the style predominantly used by the Howard County Public School System article. Additionally, the ref tags have not been placed within the text at the exact positions where the information they reference resides. In place of these ref tags, numbers within brackets are used in the text, but these bracketed numbers are not linked to any reference being used in a meaningful way. Your edit request similarly uses bracketed numbers which are not linked to any reference. Using the correct style and the correct positioning of the ref tags, the WikiFormatted text should resemble the following: CORRECT Please add the following sentence to the first paragraph of the article's "Sun and Moon" section: The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles,<ref>{{cite book|last1=Sjöblad|first1=Tristan|title=The Sun|url=http://www.booksource.com|publisher=Academic Press|date=2018|page=1}}</ref> while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles.<ref>{{cite journal|last1=Harinath|first1=Paramjit|title=Size of the Moon|journal=Science|issue=78|volume=51|url=http://www.journalsource.com|date=2018|page=46}}</ref> The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin.<ref>{{cite book|last1=Uemura|first1=Shu|title=The Sun's Heat|url=http://www.websource.com|publisher=Academic Press|date=2018|page=2}}</ref> Which displays as: Please add the following sentence to the first paragraph of the article's "Sun and Moon" section: The Sun's diameter is 864,337.3 miles, while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles. The Sun's temperature is 5,778 degrees Kelvin. References In the example above the references have been formatted according to Citation Style 1, which shows the author, the source's name, date, etc. Also, the ref tags are placed in the exact location where the text which they reference resides. As Wikipedia is a volunteer project, edit requests such yours are generally expected to have this formatting done before the request is submitted for review.

Kindly rewrite your edit request so that it aligns more with the second example shown in the collapsed section above, and feel free to re-submit that edit request at your earliest convenience. If you have any questions about this formatting please don't hesitate to ask myself or another editor. Regards,  Spintendo  23:44, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Notes

Necessary content?

Is this massive history section necessary; do we care about the minutiae of who was hired when? The names mentioned are largely non-notable. It just seems like a huge, huge amount of trivia unlike what we usually keep.

If it is kept, I'd love for someone (not me!) to go through it and fix the freaking verb tense, among many other errors. Thanks. Jessicapierce (talk) 23:39, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Add Guilford_Park_High_School

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilford_Park_High_School Sources: https://gphs.hcpss.org/ https://gphs.hcpss.org/news/2023/08/first-week-school-information TANCLAP! (talk) 19:38, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Stats

From article:

• Elementary (PreK–5) – 25,987
• Middle (6–8) – 13,129
• High (9–12) – 18,254

Extrapolate average size of each cohort:

• Elementary: 4,331 (ie. 25,987 / 6)
• Middle: 4,376
• High: 4,563

Looks like the numbers are trending downward, from old to young. One would expect the opposite, due to natural deaths and immigration into the county. Suggests Howard County is aging fewer children and/or emigration out of the county. -- GreenC 14:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC)