Talk:Home economics

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2019 and 2 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Aahammer99.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 January 2019 and 27 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Saad.Negm.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:47, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

College list

I reformated the colleges and acdemic departments list so that all were displayed in a similar manner, with the parent institution name first, followed first by a colon and then by the full name of the college, school, or department.

The statements about food science are way off base and I don't think they belong in the article at all. Post a note if you want to discuss this point, otherwise I'm going to take them out.

Posting here is new to me. Do let me know if I am not following protocol. I added a link to the Board of Human Sciences and revised the name of the program at Iowa State University from Family and Consumer Sciences to Human Sciences. Both have been existence under these names for more than five years. Human sciences (talk) 22:10, 8 March 2010 human sciences 16:10, 8 March 2010

I assume they have now gone?

It would really help if you would date notes like this (but I know I forget sometimes). I do not know if this was a month ago or two years ago (talk)--BozMo 20:30, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

The origin of Home Economics is scientifically based with founder Ellen H. Richards (see Culinary Biographies, Arndt,2006) The organization she helped form was the American Home Economics Association now know as the American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences, the true authority on the body of knoweldge encompassed and still taught in the majority of high schools across the country, open to all students. 5/6/2007 E. Reagin, home economist, BA 1980.

Is anyone going to put a list back up? Might look at Rossiter? K8shep (talk) 17:45, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Re-inserting relevant links

I noticed that there was some concern with the links to “A Taste for Science” and HEARTH that I had added previously, so I am re-inserting them with the assurance that they are not spam. As a virtual exhibit from Cornell University’s Mann Library, the information provided by the “Taste for Science” link is both well-researched and reputable, focusing especially on the development of home economics as a field and the idea of ‘scientific cookery’ in America. HEARTH is a useful online archive through which one may access full texts of home economic books and journals dating from 1820 to 1979.--MannLib (talk) 12:33, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality

Is it really necessary for this article to espouse the "importance" of Family and Consumer Sciences in an entire section devoted to it? Wikipedia is not the place for the glorification of some educational philosophy's place in North American schools. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.106.118 (talk) 23:05, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

It should not have been in the article. I just removed it at your prompting. Blue Rasberry (talk) 01:12, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Home economics

The Home economics article actually starts by saying that it is "also known as family and consumer science. Surely that is good support for a merger? Also, Consumer Science is a redirect to the one article, and Consumer science to the other. Slashme (talk) 08:00, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea. Should we just do it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr.Robert Hughes Jr. (talk • contribs) 14:56, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

I made both Consumer science and Consumer Science redirect to Family and consumer science. That they did not both go there before was some mistake.

There is reason to discuss a merger between Home economics and Family and consumer science but if a merger is to happen, the definitions of each will need to be articulated and will ought to call for a community vote. I can arrange the vote if other people put together arguments detailing why merger should and should not be enacted. The kinds of evidence which ought to be considered include citing which reputable and relevant organizations use which name, any documents which define either term so that people can judge whether the terms really do refer to equivalent fields, and which terms the media uses with representation from at least a few countries (perhaps United States, England, and India would be a representative survey). Candidates for naming in addition to "home economics" and "family and consumer science" might be "consumer economics" and "consumer studies". I am not sure which name or names or best or how all of these might be defined. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:25, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

I am the lead author of the Japanese version of Wikipedia "Home Economics"(家政学). Heck, I would should make a cross-language link to either, this item of the Japanese version? In Japan, English translation of Home Economics is "Home Economics". In 1994, history whose name has been changed to "family and consumer science" is, and has been generated from the name change issue of American Home Economics Association, I learned in graduate school and university. That either will be "integrated", I thought to be a breeze when you want to create a link between language. In the Japanese version, now has announced "If you want to refer to the English version, see both" he said. However, I think historically, the original is a home economics, family and consumer science do you not intended to be finished for the name has been changed later? I think the easy integration that we should avoid. In view of the problems, such as inter-language links course, integration is welcome. And I think in everyone change depending on whether you are focused on either ensuring the current, that historic? --御門桜(MIKADO, Sakura) (talk) 17:24, 17 February 2014 (UTC) Absolutely not. These are different disciplines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.6.164.238 (talk) 12:08, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and boldly merged these, since the articles were about exactly the same thing. -- Visviva (talk) 18:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

As a Family and Consumer Science teacher I feel the title Home Economics pulls us back, we don't call it that anymore, so why have that be the main title? Why isn't it Family and Consumer Science, formerly known as Home Economics. It just seems backwards to me for it to be titled the old name and then say what we call it in modern day. Seibatooth (talk) 05:13, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

The name change seems to very very americanised and not give the global perspectives that is modern home economics. It is known as Home Economics in Australia. JoMax001 (talk) 13:07, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

What happened with the -s?

According to the lead of the article and according to the quoted sources it should be Family and consumer sciences with an 's'. Why isn't this in the article name? Marcocapelle (talk) 04:42, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 17 May 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure). Anarchyte (work | talk) 12:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

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Family and consumer science → Home economics – These two articles were merged in 2015, which is fine as there seems to be general agreement they are about the same topic. However, I think the articles were merged in the wrong direction, i.e. "home economics" should have been kept as the title because it is the clear common name. See for example this ngram and if we are worried that's not recent enough because it ends in 2008, post-2012 Google Scholar hits gives 16K results for "Home economics" compared to 6K for "Family and consumer sciences" and 1K for "Family and consumer science". Note that if there is a consensus for a move a history swap will be required to preserve the attribution history of the target page. Jenks24 (talk) 13:30, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

• Can someone identify any reliable sources which establish "home economics" as the name of this field of study? A contemporary textbook, an academic journal or even just an article, a dictionary, or whatever else. I do not think it is established that "family and consumer science" is the same as "home economics". Should "home economics" and "family and consumer science" be separate articles? Is there another contemporary name for this - "consumer studies", as in The International Journal of Consumer Studies? Blue Rasberry (talk) 17:11, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
  • ​"Home economics" and "family and consumer science" re one and the same. Check out this, this and this. The Family and Consumer Sciences Research Journal was called the Home Economics Research Journal until 1994. —  AjaxSmack  00:56, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

I confirm that all of these sources group "home economics" and "family and consumer science" together. The Handbook explicitly says, "the field of study and profession first named home economics and today, to more accurately reflect the breadth and scope of the field, called family and consumer sciences". Here are those sources expanded with descriptions -

• Stage, edited by Sarah; Vincenti, Virginia B. (1997). Rethinking home economics : women and the history of a profession. Ithaca, N.Y. [etc.]: Cornell University Press. ISBN 978-0801481758. {{cite book}}: |first1= has generic name (help)
• Changing ourselves: narrative experiences of women taking the lead in family and consumer sciences
• Wertlieb, editors, Richard M. Lerner, Francine Jacobs, Donald (2002). Handbook of applied developmental science : promoting positive child, adolescent, and family development through research, policies, and programs. Thousand Oaks, Calif: Sage Publications. ISBN 978-0761922780. {{cite book}}: |first1= has generic name (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

One is a history book, the other is a dissertation which is not widely published, and the handbook is sort of a perspective from another field. These are all good sources but I wonder if we can find something published more recently, from the field itself, and from a respected authority. I think that all of these suggest that "family and consumer sciences" is the preferred term. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:13, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

• I first thought that "family and consumer science" was a WTF title for home ec. A perusal of edit histories shows that the family and consumer science has been around since way back in 2001 and that home economics redirected to that page from its creation in 2004 until 2008. Home economics had a separate article from 2008 till early 2015 until the remerge. —  AjaxSmack  00:56, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

AjaxSmack Great research. I think this establishes that there is a history of uncertainty and lack of consensus. Your saying this makes me want to check contemporary practice now and collect the evidence to make a fresh decision. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:02, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

• I checked Wikidata to see how this concept is treated in other languages. English Wikipedia influences Wikidata and other language Wikipedias, so I thought for this concept, checking Wikidata would be useful. Both "home economics" and "family and consumer science" are popular and probably confused concepts.

• family and consumer science (Q7884093), 10 articles
• home economics (Q425694), 18 articles

I do not think article count by language is a good way to predict the best term, because in some cases an article which obviously means "home economics" is linked through Wikidata to "family and consumer science".

The reason why I think these concepts are confused is that some languages which have one do not have the other. This could be supporting evidence that other language Wikipedias have presented these as the same concept, just like in English. Languages which have articles for both concepts include Arabic, Danish, French, Japanese, and Korean, but there is no example of a language which has developed articles in both languages.

Here are the most developed articles on the concept in other languages and how Google Translate translates their names to English

• ja:家政学 (Japanese), "home economics"
• de:Hauswirtschaft (German), "home economics"
• ka:ಗೃಹವಿಜ್ಞಾನ (Kannada), "domestic science"

My takeaway from all of this is that English Wikipedia should be especially thoughtful in choosing the right name and back the decision with evidence. Whatever happens here could shape the development of other Wikipedias. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't think literal translations from other languages are generally helpful arguments in such caes. Johnbod (talk) 04:46, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

• Another argument in support of the nomination is the fact that all academics working in this discipline are called Home economists. Not only has Category:Home economists that category title, but it also comes back in nearly all individual articles that are listed in this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:12, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

• Support Family and consumer science is unknown in British English, wheras the old name seems globally understood. Johnbod (talk) 04:46, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

• Support per nom (i.e., WP:UCN) and User:Johnbod. After further review, "family and consumer science" seems to be American WP:JARGON and "home economics" benefits from WP:COMMONALITY. —  AjaxSmack  03:12, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Draft outline

There's a draft for an outline on this topic at Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines/Drafts/Outline of family and consumer science if anyone is interested. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:57, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

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Friendly Wikipedians,

I have made a short evaluation to this article as part of my tutorial. It has been posted into my Sandbox. I do however have a few questions, despite my requirement to have one.
- What is it that makes the methodology of caring for a home a science?
- What are the requirements for the sharing of such knowledge to be acknowledged as a scientific field of study?
- If an already established academic institution was to study the various methods of house keeping of another culture (example: American University studying how women from Rwanda manage and cook within their homes/homesteads) would this remain part of Home Economics/Consumer Science or would it fall under Anthropology or Sociology?
If my questions are dumb, please let me know. :)
S. S. Negm 18:01, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

History of Home Economics from 18-21st Century

Hey! I am working on adding new information to this page. I wanted to add more to each century and make it more into a cohesive timeline. Therefore, I am working on adding and organizing the main history section into 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries. Aahammer99 (talk) 19:28, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Taught worldwide?

I don't think this is true. In some countries the high school curriculum is quite fixed and only covers academics & physic education classes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Worldwide doesn't mean in literally every country. Schazjmd (talk) 20:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

I would like to chime in to agree with the original comment. No, "worldwide" doesn't mean that it's taught everywhere. The fact that the first country on the list is mentioned as not requiring/providing home ec (in most cases) is evidence of this.

I came to the article wondering about the history of the subject and the reason it's not around anymore. I'm guessing that a lot of the skills (sewing, gardening) have been replaced by consumer goods (fast fashion, grocery shopping); women being in the workforce has made home ec less practical; the subjects can't be taught as "girl" subjects but there is still a stigma of "girliness" around them; USA school funding went away from subjects like home ec (and its masculine counterpart, shop class) in favor of STEM and other subjects more suitable for standardized testing; those are some of my many guesses that I figured this article would confirm or deny.

What I didn't expect was the article acting like home ec is still a popular class required all over the world. That may be true in some countries, but in the USA, I don't even know how many younger people could tell you what it is. And I doubt anyone I know could define "family and consumer sciences"! If a school still teaches home ec, I would expect it to either be in a rural community (like how some schools will teach farming-related skills) or to get massive backlash as being unfeminist.

At least, the article should link Home Ec to the trend of "Adulting Classes," which teach the same skills - minus the gender association and without government funding - to people who didn't learn them in school. I hesitate to do my own research on this, since I'm not a regular editor. I don't want to revamp or make whole sections unless I'm really familiar with the topic, which I'm not. 2601:281:D47F:2918:4462:3118:4370:427E (talk) 02:00, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't think the article presents it as a "popular class". Most of the individual sections by country note the changes over time. For the US, the article states Some schools are starting to incorporate life skill courses back into their curriculum, but as a whole, home economics courses have been in major decline in the past century. In 2012 there were only 3.5 million students enrolled in FCS secondary programs, a decrease of 38 percent over a decade. In 2020 the AAFCS estimates that there are 5 million students enrolled in FCS programs. If you're interested, a good book is The Secret History of Home Economics (2021). Schazjmd (talk) 05:13, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

tone

This entry is entirely too favorable on the subject. Home Economics in the 1960's was unabashedly a training course in pleasing husbands. It was required for girls (in my state, United States) but not for boys. It was sexist and chauvinistic, and never should have been sanctione by educational authorities. 2601:346:1180:4320:B1AD:AADC:4E38:3A0A (talk) 16:02, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

EPP

Home economics related occupation 124.105.175.214 (talk) 10:54, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: FCS 442 Foundations of Family and Consumer Sciences

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Trschwartz, Bwaller2x, AzlynPorter, Najohnson21, Malevy14, Rejoro323, Gpeterson54, KermitTheFrog13, AttackWorm22 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: MiaPerez3, Welovebees, Bellabwelker, Weloveflowers, Laurenburschel, LandShark71, AttackWorm22, Tbbarwelks.

— Assignment last updated by JN FCS Foods (talk) 16:15, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 2 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn as expressed below. No support was expressed by others. (closed by non-admin page mover) —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:05, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

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Home economics → Family and Consumer Sciences – Renaming the Home Economics Wikipedia page to Family and Consumer Sciences would more accurately reflect the modern scope and evolution of the field. Originally focused on domestic skills such as cooking and sewing, home economics has expanded to encompass a broader range of topics, including financial literacy, family dynamics, nutrition, and consumer decision-making. The term "Family and Consumer Sciences" better captures this comprehensive approach, emphasizing the integration of various disciplines aimed at improving the quality of life for individuals and families. By adopting this updated terminology, the Wikipedia page would align with contemporary educational standards and professional practices, offering a more precise representation of the field's current objectives and relevance. Here are some links to prove that this change needs to be made since it changed from Home Economics in 1994 to Family and Consumer Sciences. [1]https://www.aafcs.org/about/about-us/faqs#:~:text=In 1994, the association, other,the complexity of the profession.[2]https://www.seattletimes.com/life/food-drink/dont-call-it-home-ec-learn-the-facs/ Texan527 (talk) 22:58, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

• Did you notice that this includes a change from sentence case to title case? Is that intentional? Please note Wikipedia's tendency to prefer WP:Lowercase. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
• FCS doesn't seem to reflect a global outlook; it seems to be a U.S.-centric term. The International Federation for Home Economics (representing almost 70 countries) hasn't changed their terminology. And an ngrams comparison, while a minor data point, shows "home economics" as a more common term than "family and consumer sciences" even when the comparison is limited to 2000-2022.[3] Schazjmd (talk) 23:40, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Schazjmd While this may be the case, this adherence to the term "Home Economics" by the International Federation for Home Economics (IFHE) can be seen as somewhat outdated and not reflective of the modern scope of the field. The discipline has evolved significantly to encompass a broader array of subjects such as human development, personal finance, nutrition, and consumer education. The term "Family and Consumer Sciences" (FCS) better captures this expanded focus and is recognized by professional organizations and academic institutions, while particularly in the United States, as aligning with contemporary standards and educational frameworks. FCS addresses contemporary issues relevant to families and communities, moving beyond the traditional domestic focus of "Home Economics." Thus, updating the Wikipedia page to reflect the term FCS offers a more accurate and current representation of the field, aligning with its modern relevance and scope. We have to be open to making the changes to better encompass and align what the discipline teaches to our youth. Yes, Home Economics was a good name back in the 1900s, but it has grown past that in modern times. We need to find a compromise that benefits both sides of this argument as I do see your points. Texan527 (talk) 00:30, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Texan527, do you have any sources that indicate any countries other than the U.S. are commonly using "family and consumer sciences"? Schazjmd (talk) 01:09, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Schazjmd I have some links that universities in some countries use them. (The one from beligium lists multiple countries' universities for some reason.)

  https://www.mastersportal.com/study-options/271745080/family-consumer-science-australia.html

  https://www.bachelorsportal.com/study-options/269353016/family-consumer-science-canada.html

  https://www.mastersportal.com/study-options/270155832/family-consumer-science-china.html

  https://studyqa.com/master/belgium/family-and-consumer-science Texan527 (talk) 01:31, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I do not trust those sources. Those are two organizations, studyportal and studyqa, and both of them are marketing organizations. They make no claim to being an authority or fact-checking. I am open to considering the name change and I do recognize that field shifted focus over the last 100 years and that some organizations advocate for a new name, but I want to see more, more diverse, and better sourcing.

As an alternative to renaming this article, I could imagine a lower bar of sourcing for establishing a new article on consumer science. The content of this article could be improved with more planning of its focus, as right now this article does little to explain the concept of "home economics" and mostly focuses on the instruction of home economics as an academic discipline. A name change is not going to clarify this underdeveloped article with overly broad scope, so if there is a name change, I think the change should come with a little agreement on what the article should cover. Bluerasberry (talk) 14:32, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

@Bluerasberry I like that idea.

I was able to find this: https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3VD.pl?Function=getVD&TVD=299355&CVD=299356&CPV=19.&CST=01012016&CLV=1&MLV=3

But while looking, I realized that most countries don't even use either. Some don't even have the program entirely. I know you were thinking of another article, but what about changing Home Economics, since it is old terminology, to Consumer Sciences. This name encompasses more countries' depictions of the course as it has grown past HE? Texan527 (talk) 16:15, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Did you notice that your suggestions include a change from sentence case to title case? Please see, for example, MOS:FIELD. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:53, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

The content of this article is about the academic field of home economics. There is not much content here about home economics itself, and almost no content about consumer science. Without content here to establish a history of one leading into the other, I am not ready to say they are the same thing. I think it would be more accurate to say that home economics is not popular to teach and now instead there is a new field of consumer science which is studied. Bluerasberry (talk) 21:58, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Off-thread comment: if you're interested in the topic, The Secret History of Home Economics is an excellent book. Schazjmd (talk) 22:13, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

• It may be worth noting that this is basically a proposal to revert an RM outcome of eight years ago. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

  I didn't know about that move, thanks for linking. Some of the arguments made by editors in that discussion appear to support my concern that the move would impose an Americanism on a global topic. The terminology and U.S. sections of the article already address the change in the U.S. and the American name is mentioned in the lead (and is a redirect). Schazjmd (talk) 19:44, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Schazjmd I feel like it would make everyone happy if it just stayed as Home Ec. With that being said, is there a way to remove the requested change since I proposed it or do I just let time expire? Texan527 (talk) 22:48, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Texan527, let it run at least a week. Other editors might still weigh in. Schazjmd (talk) 22:57, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

  @Schazjmd Will do. Texan527 (talk) 22:58, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

  There is no need to keep it open if the original submitter withdraws their request and no others have expressed support for a renaming (WP:RMEC). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:03, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Home economics

What was home-economics formely tought as 197.211.59.91 (talk) 19:50, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The terminology section mentions different names that have been used for these types of studies. Schazjmd (talk) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)